Nidal Malik Hasan, Terrorphobia, and the Safe Haven Freakout
As soon as it emerged that the spree killer at Fort Hood was named Nidal Malik Hasan it was of course inevitable that people would start speculating about motives (“This Was An Act of Jihad” wrote New Republic editor in chief Martin Peretz) and in some quarters we saw talk about the need to do more discrimination against Muslim Americans. Why bother, I figured, an actual investigation will happen. And it seems that “After two days of inquiry into the mass shooting at Fort Hood, investigators have tentatively concluded that it was not part of a terrorist plot.” Rather, they think he “acted out under a welter of emotional, ideological and religious pressures, according to interviews with federal officials who have been briefed on the inquiry.”
This is perhaps a moment to reflect on the fact that the murder of innocent people is not really made better or worse by deep inquiry into the precise nature of the crime. It’s not as if had Hasan left a note saying “despite my name I don’t practice Islam and am acting out of wholly non-religious motives” that his victims would somehow be less dead. Alternatively, suppose this had been part of a “plot”—they wouldn’t be any more dead. But the terrorism fears around this subject should also remind us that the fear of a “save haven” in Afghanistan continues to be an underscrutinized concept. Suppose there had been a terrorist plot here? What role would a safe haven have played in it? The key assets Hasan had, from the point of view of committing acts of violence against Americans, were access to weapons and a physical location inside the United States of America.
116 Responses to “Nidal Malik Hasan, Terrorphobia, and the Safe Haven Freakout”
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November 8th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Hey Matt, I’m a bit confused by your argument here. Are you suggesting that an individual (acting alone, not part of a plot) would not constitute a terrorist attack? If Mr. Hasan was motivated by “ideological and religious” pressures, I would argue that it is terrorism regardless of whether he was acting alone or as part of a “plot.” Also, if these ideological and religious pressures were accompanied by personal and emotional issues, that does not make it any less an act of terrorism does it?
November 8th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
People commit acts of violence for any number of reasons and ultimately, their motives are irrelevant. The shooter at Virginia Tech carried out those murders with all the preparation of an experienced terrorist. The only difference between him and a terrorist was a lack of a political motive. The victims don’t care why someone has shot them or killed a loved one. Murder is murder.
It is immoral, classless, disgusting and pathetic for anyone to use someone else’s tragedy to advance their own political agenda. So we have anti-Muslim screeds on right wing blogs; typical of the low class of morons that typically read Martin Peretz or the fools who pay him at the New Republic. If the Oklahoma City Bombing was not an indictment of right wing Republican anti-government rhetoric at the time, then the shooting at Ft. Hood is an isolated act of murder. Nothing else.
Martin Peretz needs to shut his fat-ass mouth and let the victims of this tragedy mourn in peace. And the sooner the New Republic goes out of print, the better.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
“And the sooner the New Republic goes out of print, the better.”
Truer words were never spoken.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Martin Peretz or the fools who pay him at the New Republic.
He pays himself.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
link
Unless it can be proven that this mass murder was conducted by a political group, I see no reason to label it “terrorism”. Fratricide and mass murder are heinous enough.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Re N
It is certainly pertinent to investigate the Mosque in Silver Spring where Dr. Hasan worshiped to see if the Imams there are inciting violence and preaching jihad. As numerous investigations have shown, such activities have been carried out at a number of Mosques in the US and elsewhere (this type of incitement is particularly flagrant in Great Britain). The time is long past to end the practice of political correctness relative to religious institutions, be they Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Shinto, etc. If they incice violence, shut them down and toss the inciters in the slammer.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
That seems like a very unworkable definition. All of the sudden, a father who kills his daughter for getting pregnant out of wedlock becomes “terrorism,” or a guy who shoots an abortion doctor…
These might be “terrorism” as well, but in the context of the question of “safe havens,” the application to these circumstances becomes useless. It would be ridiculous to mobilize the Army to defeat fathers who practice honor killing, or to defend abortion doctors, or even to prevent militiamen from blowing up federal buildings.
I would add, a lot of the conversations over government torture seem to circle around the issuse of “terrorism” being a crime sui generis and requiring the use of torture, and the suspension of normal human rights generally. Should a man who shoots an abortion doctor, or even ten of them, be tortured to reveal who his accessories were? Should we torture Nidal Hassan’s family members in order to discover if he was acting “on orders?”
November 8th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
It’s an interesting question, and one that deserves further (calm, rational) scrutiny. Was the Unibomber a terrorist? Eric Rudolph? People call them that, and for good reason, even though they worked alone and out of diseased minds. They had political motivations and objectives and acted on them.
If we now view Hasan as another mass shooter, driven psychotic through alienation and pressure, does that mean he’s not a terrorist? How much contact with violent, extremist ideology would have to be uncovered before we would consider him one? A few chat rooms, books, and websites? Does he need to have had personal contact with people who strongly advocate these beliefs, or simply admired them from some distance?
It seems plausible to envision his act without the subtext of Muslim resentment, and maybe that’s the best way to think about it. But I wouldn’t reject the label “terrorist” out of hand.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
It is certainly pertinent to investigate the Mosque in Silver Spring where Dr. Hasan worshiped to see if the Imams there are inciting violence and preaching jihad.
Surprisingly, I actually agree with SLC on this one, though I assume that this was part of the inquiry that MattY linked to.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
“The time is long past to end the practice of political correctness relative to religious institutions, be they Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Shinto, etc. If they incice violence, shut them down and toss the inciters in the slammer.”
Yikes! Do we really want to go there? If we went there in the 1980s, there wouldn’t be an Irish Catholic church left standing. The churches in my town were openly raising money for the IRA. Religious institutions that incite violence should be exposed for what they are, but shutting them down poses some serious Constitutional questions and is likely to incite even more violence. My home town was founded by people trying to escape the Thirty Years War. Do we really want to start a new one here and now?
And yes, we certainly should be talking to Hasan’s imams, that’s just normal police work. But we can’t really expect a whole lot cooperation. They still have the right of confidentiality. Confidentiality can be very frustrating, but religious leaders really can’t do their work without it.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
This is perhaps a moment to reflect on the fact that the murder of innocent people is not really made better or worse by deep inquiry into the precise nature of the crime.
And Yglesias comes out against hate crime legislation.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
@iluvcapra I understand that Matt raised this issue in the context of discussing safe havens and military responses to terrorism, but these things are not related to the definitional question of whether Hasan’s actions constituted terrorism. Your point assumes that terrorism necessitates a military response of some sort — it doesn’t. If a man motivated by religion and ideology went on an honor killing spree targeting unwed mothers his goal would likely be to intimidate others into not having children before marriage. And this would clearly be the political or social outcome he was seeking. And clearly it would be terrorism.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
What difference would a safe haven make?
Well, you could ask whether if the people described by the FBI in the story below had a safe haven, what they might have been able to do. Point is, they didn’t have a safe haven, and that made all the difference.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Top-Pak-diplomat-knew-US-LeT-operatives-FBI/articleshow/5181703.cms
“According to the FBI chargesheet, Rashid and the two accused went to the same military school in a town called Hasan Abdal, 40 km northwest of Rawalpindi in northern Punjab. Rashid is said to have known Headley by his other name, Daood Gilani- the one that he took after converting to Islam.
The US agency has found that Rashid, Headley and Rana were all Abdalians, as former students of the Cadet College Hasan Abdal school describe themselves. The FBI told the court that postings to a Yahoo group of graduates of the military school suggested that both Headley and Rana were members of the group. They had referred to their attendance in the school.
The FBI said that Rana was in touch with Rashid for arranging Pakistan visa for Headley to facilitate his visit to NWFP where he was scheduled to meet LeT leaders. “On or about September 25, 2009, Rana spoke by telephone with the consul general at the Pakistani consulate in Chicago in an effort to obtain a five-year visa for Headley to travel to Pakistan. It is clear from the email traffic unrelated to terrorist plotting that the consul general knows Rana and Headley personally as all three attended the same high school,” the FBI stated in its chargesheet filed in a Chicago court.
According to an agency report, the transcripts of phone conversations and emails in FBI’s possession showed that LeT was planning to use Headley for attack on an Indian actor named Rahul. Headley is said to have told the FBI that he intended to travel to Pakistan in early October to meet with an unidentified LeT individual and another man named (Ilyas) Kashmiri, an LeT terrorist who was earlier with Pakistan’s Special Services Group.
In seeking a visa for Headley, Rana apparently told Rashid that he wished to obtain the visa for a white American named Headley who did not have any Pakistani background at all. “When the consul general suggested that Rana send his friend to the consulate, Rana explained that he had sent his friend elsewhere to take care of some unspecified business so that someone else would visit the consulate. It is clear from the conversation that Rana was attempting to deceive the consul general into granting a visa for Headley without the consul general knowing for whom the visa would be issued,” the FBI told the court.
Rana told the FBI that he was aware that Headley had been affiliated with LeT, he had received training from them and he had met Kashmiri, leader of Harkat-ul-Jihad-Islami. Rana also said that he was aware that Headley communicated with two LeT Individuals.
The FBI said the identity of both the LeT leaders were known to the government. While one of them is a senior LeT leader, according to the FBI, the other one described is also associated with LeT and “Kashmiri” or Ilyas Kashmiri.
According to noted security expert B Raman, a perusal of the FBI affidavits indicates that Headley was a self-motivated jihadi who volunteered his services for the LeT and Ilyas Kashmiri. “He seems to have come into contact with the jihadi world in Pakistan by frequenting an Internet chat group of “Abdalians” meaning former cadets of the Punjab Government’s military cadet college at Hasan Abdal which was set up in 1954 to prepare young boys aspiring to join the armed forces. He had established independent contacts with an LeT operative and Ilyas Kashmiri,” he said.
“While the LeT operative was interested in using him to prepare the ground for a terrorist strike in India, Ilyas Kashmiri was interested in using him for a terrorist strike in Denmark. He had visited Denmark at least once to study the ground conditions there, but there is no indication of his having visited India. The role of Rana seems to have been to provide Headley with a business cover for his travels to Denmark and Pakistan,” added Raman.”
November 8th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
” or a guy who shoots an abortion doctor…”
Is a terrorist, what else? The most clear cut case possible for a terrorist.I would question more if every al Quaeda member is a terrorist. Should better be considered regular soldiers when they fight in Afgahnistan/Irak. Ironically all that “war against” rethoric kind implys exactly that.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
No safe haven in the US, no safe haven in Bangladesh. But safe haven in Pakistan.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Dhaka-US-embassy-attack-plan-hatched-in-Pak/H1-Article1-474157.aspx
‘Plan to attack US embassy in Dhaka hatched in Pakistan’
Indo-Asian News Service
Dhaka, November 08, 2009
First Published: 16:57 IST(8/11/2009)
Last Updated: 16:59 IST(8/11/2009)
Print
A plan to attack the US embassy in Dhaka was hatched in Pakistan by the terror group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), Bangladeshi investigators have said.
Madrassa teacher Mufti Harun, who was arrested in Chittagong, told investigators that one LeT leader discussed the plan over telephone from Pakistan and instructed in Arabic the way to execute it.
Besides the American embassy, the high commissions of India and Britain are also believed to be the targets, media reports have said.
Three of his followers were asked to visit the location of the US mission at Baridhara, an area that houses many foreign missions, on Oct 28, detective branch (DB) officials told The New Nation newspaper Sunday.
The three suspected militants – Mufti Harun Izahar, 33, Shahidul Islam, 26, and Al Amin alias Saiful – were picked up from Lalkhan Bazar seminary in Chittagong port town last Wednesday night.
Sanowar Hossain, assistant commissioner of the DB, told newspersons that the mobile phone, which was used to carry out the plan, was seized from the possession of Mufti Harun Izahar.
The police officials are hunting for six more suspects who were involved in the plan. Police have been maintaining secrecy about the details of the suspects.
After analysing the mobile call list, the investigating officials are certain that the carrier of the mobile phone, Mufti Harun Izahar, went to Baridhara road near the US Embassy and photographed the red building of the mission with his handset.
Three suspected militants were detected to have been roaming on the road close to the US Embassy in Dhaka at the same time.
One phone call came from Pakistan at about 2.15 p.m. on this mobile phone. The call duration was two minutes and 39 seconds while another call came from Pakistan at about 3.03 p.m., said Hossain.
After receiving a message from Pakistan, the three suspected militants left the place, the official said.
Several more people, including some foreign nationals, are under watch in connection with the plot. The clue to the plan came from arrests made in the US.
US citizen David Colelman Headley alias Gilani Daud and Pakistan-born Canadian Tahawwur Hussain Rana were arrested in Chicago last month while Abdur Rahman Sayeed was detained in Pakistan last week.
The three had ordered the Let men in Bangladesh to attack the US embassy, The Daily Star reported Sunday.
“Not only the US embassy, they may attempt to attack other places as well,” Bangladesh officials told the newspaper.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Personally, I would have been in favor of invading and occupying Texas.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
The Wikipedia “key Criteria” are still usefull in the English version. Maybe some other years of FOX redefinitions and we will get a messed up rewriting as already done on many other issues )-:.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
“This is perhaps a moment to reflect on the fact that the murder of innocent people is not really made better or worse by deep inquiry into the precise nature of the crime.”
I’m pretty surprised to hear MY say this. It’s a perfect parody of arguments against hate crimes legislation and in either case it’s wrong. The predictable attempts at point scoring and the obscene jumping to conclusions by Peretz are obviously disgusting, but MY is making another argument entirely–that whatever we find out, *it doesn’t really matter* what made Hasan do this.
There are credible reports that one of the things that caused Hasan to crack up was his extreme stress over the fact that the U.S. was fighting wars against Muslims, in his mind against Islam itself. It doesn’t matter at all if a mass murderer in the U.S., who was serving in the U.S. military, sympathized with the radical Islamist view of the war in Afghanistan? Obviously holding those views doesn’t necessarily make one a potential murderer. But it shouldn’t surprise anyone anymore that there actually are people with those views who are living in the U.S., just like there are people with violent, far-right views living in the U.S. But that doesn’t matter when we’re thinking about what to do about mass shootings?
November 8th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Hey if the folks at Fort Hood had access to guns, this never would’ve…
…uh, never mind…
November 8th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
The UN: Terrorism is “an act intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act”
There’s not really any evidence to to say that this meets the definition of terrorism. Terrorism requires the perpetrator to have a goal, it is the incitement of terror as a means to achieve an end. Also, instead of targeting civilians, as is normal for terrorists, he specifically targeted an army base. That’s not really terrorist behaviour. Was his goal to create enough terror in the united states so that they would withdraw from the war? There is no evidence of that.
I would, however, argue that the murder of an abortion doctor is a terrorist act under the accepted definitions. It is a deliberate targeting of civilians, they generally operate with the backing of organized groups, and they have a very explicit political goal. None of those criteria are met for this case, at least not given the information we have now.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
As horrific asa Hassan’s act was, killing soldiers on a military base is not terrorism.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
That’s a perfectly tenable position, but ever since September 11th, the neoconservative position, and US policy in general, has been that “terrorism is terrorism is terrorism,” and that terrorism is tantamount to levying war against the United States, and that terrorism is a special class of activity to which the normal legal criminal procedures should not apply.
You might be right, but your attitude seems to be voiceless in the concrete postions held by Republicans and most “serious” Democrats.
As to the guy who shoots an abortion doctor, it’s not terrorism if the shooter was taking revenge for aborting his wife’s child, but it is if the shooter is trying to end abortion in the United States. The question of if it’s terrorism or not depends on motive… In a way, terrorism has become the Republican/conservative establishment species of “hate crime,” wherein the crime becomes superlative if it’s perpetrated with a certain motive, regardless of the magnitude of the commited act.
Terrorism is a superlative crime because it attempts to suvbert the body politic through fear, according to this reasoning. And accordingly, a Hate Crime is a superlative crime because it attempts to intimidate a group of people from participating in society. It’s basically two sides of the same coin.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Somehow, the shootings at Virginia Tech did not lead people to target Korean youth. There have been tragic shootings like this going back many years, and, ultimately, they are very similar in their causes.
See, e.g. this story and interview from CBS News, which clearly shows how this has gone on for years, as the information coming now is indicating:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8cVuBI7bX8
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/07/earlyshow/saturday/main5563817.shtml
November 8th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
If they incice violence, shut them down and toss the inciters in the slammer.
As dildo-fiend Mrs SLC proves, inciters of violence don’t need a place of worship.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
iluvcapra, I doubt you can find even one example of an abortion doctor murdered as direct revenge. That is not a serious argument. The abortion doctor killer is one of the clearest cut examples of terrorism I can think of. The strongest case against Hasan being a terrorist is the fact that he attacked US military, not civilians. Perhaps you can finesse that they weren’t “combatants” but they are not civilians.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Notice that I didn’t say there was a “killing spree,” because the original post didn’t assert multiple murders, or any sort of systematic act. You just said “motivated by ‘ideological and religious’ pressures,” and you excluded the possibility of a plot.
The reason the absence of a “plot” matters is because the existence of a plot would go to intent, and intent is the legal signature of a terrorist act.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
What really surprises me is that nobody saw this coming with Hasan. Psychologists usually go through regular therapy themselves. The reason is that they deal with a lot of disturbing things and sometimes they crack. Someone dealing regularly with PTSD in soldiers is going to hear some very dark things. I would think a therapist like that would need regular therapy himself. So what’s up? Did he not get this therapy? Or did he get it and nobody saw anything wrong? Either way, something broke down. I’m guessing that the mental health system in the military is just so overloaded that things like this just slip through the cracks. And I don’t think the military is really to blame for this. If they wanted to hire twice as many therapists, there wouldn’t be enough therapists to hire. I don’t know what the solution is, but fighting fewer wars would certainly help. On Halloween, I met a guy who just came back from his fourth tour of duty. He seemed fine, but nobody should have to do that. He’s glad that he now only has the less stressful job of being an EMT. That’s a tough job, but at least he’s saving lives, not ending them.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
…uh, never mind…
Yeah, that’s kinda facile. Most of the personnel at Fort Hood don’t carry as a matter of course — because, in the words of the base commanders, “this is our home.”
That sentiment does go against the action-movie fantasies of certain GOP bloggers with gun fixations who talk about how people should be packing heat on campus or at the mall.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Seth I think you and capra are saying the same thing. The fact that there’s never been such an incident as capra has described points toward the killing of abortion doctors being a terrorist act.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
I thought we were talking in the abstract. A crime isn’t a question of knowing it when you see it, it’s an idealized definition that is applied to a particular circumstance and people decide wether it meets the standard or not. And terrorism, as we know it in the US, is a question of intent, not a question of who you kill. An 80 year old man who plows his car into a farmers market isn’t commiting a terrorist act against organic farmers.
I would also add that, in any case, if the perpetrator is insane by the way we characterize it under our legal system, there is no terrorism here, because under our system, a person who is insane is incapable of forming an intent.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Several points here. It matters that there was not a conspiracy, for obvious reasons.
That said, I do think this incident should give proponents of hate crimes legislation something to think about. Is the murder of these innocent people made more or less heinous because the killer believed (what we take to be) wrong things?
November 8th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
What is this “Safe Haven” thing anyway? Is it, like, a refugee camp or something?
Also, it sounds like he doesn’t want a “deep inquiry into the precise nature”, because any kind of inquiry, even a superficial one, is inevitably going to show that this is a backlash against the ongoing American aggression in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, as well as ongoing US-sponsored outrage in Palestine. This obvious conclusion must, of course, be avoided by all means.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Re “As soon as it emerged that the spree killer at Fort Hood was named Nidal Malik Hasan it was of course inevitable that people would start speculating about motives”
————–
Why speculate? Why not just ASK Nidal Hasan why he did it?
Somehow, i don’t think that is really a conversation that Marty Peretz wants to start.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
If they wanted to hire twice as many therapists, there wouldn’t be enough therapists to hire.
The VA has been hiring mental health staff in the past couple of years — though the strain on that system was becoming obvious five years ago.
The problem the regular military faces is that doctoral-level licensed therapists or psychiatrists who didn’t get their quals through the military tend to be in a position in their lives where they’d prefer the civilian world of the VA (or the pretty shitty wages and career prospects of state systems) to signing over their lives to the regular military.
I don’t know what the solution is, but fighting fewer wars would certainly help.
In terms of mental health, Iraq and Afghanistan will keep giving for the next fifty years. Suicides, broken marriages, alcoholism and drug addiction.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
What M.Y. fails to appreciate is the fact that there were eyewitnesses that heard Nidal proclaiming Allahu Akbar (God id great) prior to shooting his multiple victims. This is a similar rant that is unheard in the battlefield from suicide bombers, and the streets of Israel by homicide bombers. Certainly the latter is an act of terror and is not require a plot by multiple people to be considered a terrorist act. To focus on a disturbed man’s psychological profile more than to focus on his act of terror against your homeland, speaks volumes of your intentions. Downplaying the outcome of this horrific act, and marginalizing the victims and their families, because you want to be “sensitive” is unpatriotic and un-American. M.Y., if it was your brother or your sister killed in the shooting, would you feel the same? In your leap for diversity, he tripped over logic, and landed face first into a pile of anti-American sentiment, that does not serve as a safety net, but rather exposes you as someone who does not believe in intentions of our founding fathers. If you truly hate this country, why not leave it? Why don’t you take your rants and ravings against his country and people who hold the Constitution near and dear, and go elsewhere. And if you believe that” Islam is a religion of peace” I’d be more than happy to buy you a one-way ticket to Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Yemen. Let them know you’re a “sensitive” American who celebrates diversity. And if they behead you as an infidel, perhaps your family can celebrate your martyrdom. I suggest you pack light, as you will need many personal belongings, outside of Identification.
DAS
November 8th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
If Nidal Hasan actually was motivated by his Islamic faith , then I would think Marty Peretz would feel a deep kinship with Hasan.
After all, both will then have killed American soldiers and their fellow countrymen for misguided religious reasons. The fact that Hasan used a gun and Marty used deceitful propaganda is almost beside the point. Except that Marty’s body count is far higher.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
For the most part, VA mental health professionals are providing fifteen minute med checks. Many are frustrated over the ineffectiveness of this. Intense counseling is hard to come by, and that is what is needed for PTSD. Also, taking someone with PTSD out of combat would be helpful. Our streamlined Army isn’t doing so well. It’s disturbing to contemplate shell-shocked soldiers on psychotropic drugs in combat zones.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
MY,
Terrorism is an activity conducted by a group, and their communications and planning is susceptible to interception. That is why safe havens are necessary for their operation, unlike the cases of persons going deranged and going on a shooting spree. The Blacksburg VA or the Fort Hood shootings are inherently very difficult to prevent. As the two news-articles I posted above show, friendly governments can disrupt terrorist plots directed against other countries.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
“In terms of mental health, Iraq and Afghanistan will keep giving for the next fifty years.”
It will keep giving in other ways, too. My late roommate died of leukemia he got from handling benzene during the Vietnam War. I went with him to the VA often. And that was a disturbing place. The doctors and nurses were wonderful and bless them for the work they do. But they are overwhelmed. When you walk into the Denver VA, the first thing you see is the amputee ward. And it’s crowded. And it’s mostly twenty year old kids with no legs. We’ll be treating them for a long time. Wars never really end, they eventually fade from public memory, but a soldier never forgets. It’s important that we never forget them.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
I fail to see how this is responsive w/r/t the question of the post. Nidal shouted “Allahu Akbar,” therefore expand our military presence in Afghanistan?
How should the fact that he shouted something during his rampage change how we conduct ourselves in the future, on any count? It seems like people just want to call this terrorism so they can turn it into another cultural shibboleth, and use it to justify the persecution of reverent muslims, wether or not they are guilty or even suspected of a crime.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
When you walk into the Denver VA, the first thing you see is the amputee ward. And it’s crowded. And it’s mostly twenty year old kids with no legs. We’ll be treating them for a long time.
Jimmy Carr is taking a lot of shit for this blackly comic line, but modern warfare really is a great way of improving your Paralympics team.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
The question of motive may matter in a legal sense, assuming Hasan does survive his injuries. In terms of formulating policy concerning how to minimize the number and severity of such incidents in the future it matters quite a bit. It matters if the perpetrator belongs to (or strongly identifies with) a group of people we are having hostilities against, as that is clearly a risk factor for this sort of outcome. As much as we may wish otherwise, it matters if the perp belongs to a religious order which contains sacred verses that suggest that killing infidels is god’s work. Again another risk factor, that we ought to be paying attention to. And of course it matters how we treat members of that religion, as unfair treatment towards such people is also another compounding risk factor. Now having one or several risk factors doesn’t make a person a killer (until proven otherwise), but any rational policy should be able to factor it into the decision making process.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
“but modern warfare really is a great way of improving your Paralympics team.”
That’s a little dark, even for me. But from what I’ve seen, we’re going to have one hell of a team. What’s really amazing is that those kids still have a lot of fight in them. They’d go back to Iraq if they could. One thing I’ve always seen about our soldiers is that they are some really tough mother fuckers. And remarkably compassionate as well. And that was really the striking thing traveling in Vietnam. The Vietnamese had nothing but good things to say about our soldiers.
November 8th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Yglesias: “..the murder of innocent people is not really made better or worse by deep inquiry into the precise nature of the crime”.
It was just a few days back that Yglesias and his fellow travelers had their panties in a knot about the Goldstone report on the Israeli assault on Gaza, an operation in which a few hundred innocent civilians were accidentally killed by the IDF while they were fighting Hamas. So if I understand it correctly,
IDF accidentally kills a few hundred innocent civilians while fighting Hamas thugs hiding among civilians = major war crime that deserves to be investigated thoroughly by the UN, condemned universally, punished by withdrawal of US aid etc. etc.
Muslim terrorists all over the world deliberately kill thousands of innocent kaffirs by beheading them, blowing them up with bombs or by detonating Semtex in their butts, all the while screaming “Allah hu akbar” and quoting voluminously from the Koran in their “martyrdom” videos to justify their actions, egged on by their imams = nothing to see here folks, please move along. And whatever you do, don’t connect the dots.
Political correctness and affluence have rotted the minds of the Western elite to a point where the West is like a flock of dodos – too fat and dumb even to recognize the danger when they are being clubbed on the head.
November 8th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
“Nidal shouted “Allahu Akbar,”
We should be careful about putting too much meaning into that. It’s a pretty generic statement and will be said for many reasons. Hell, I’ve said it many times out of simple politeness. And I’m not a Muslim. And if a Muslim thinks he’ll be dead soon, he’ll surely say it. Last time I said it was to my Muslim taxi driver in Bangalore. I said to him: “May Allah bless you and your family. Allahu Akbar.” And then I gave him a traditional Thai wai, and then kissed him on the cheeks. He was a good driver.
November 8th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
A specific claim of the Goldstone report is that the IDF intentionally targeted civilians and civilian infrastructure, and it provided evidence that these acts were not “accidental.” As to the thousands of beheadings, Israel wasn’t engaged in a battle with “Muslim terrorists all over the world,” it was fighting to stop rockets being lobbed into Beersheeba, a goal which they did not accomplish.
Bombing a Gaza bread factory in order to punish Pakistanis for killing Daniel Pearl is the acme of collective punishment.
November 8th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Good grief, Matt, you’re just abasing yourself here.
Hasan is a Palestinian terrorist in the tradition of Sirhan Sirhan who shot Bobby Kennedy on July 5, 1968, the one year anniversary of Israel’s attack on its Arab neighbors on July 5, 1967. Sirhan was enraged by RFK’s promise to send 50 fighter jets to Israel.
November 8th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
This is a ridiculous exercise in logic-chopping and misdirection to say it wasn’t a “terrorist plot” because it wasn’t a plot and therefore it wasn’t terrorism. It was most definitely a classic act of terrorism.
November 8th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
“This is perhaps a moment to reflect on the fact that the murder of innocent people is not really made better or worse by deep inquiry into the precise nature of the crime.”
This is exactly why “hate crime” laws are an abomination.
November 8th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
“It was most definitely a classic act of terrorism.”
If he were Catholic, would you be saying the same thing? I doubt it. And we know all Catholics are terrorists, right? It’s high time you got your immigrant ass out of my country and go back to whatever European country you came from. My ancestors fought the Revolution when yours were still in Europe. So you have no right to say who should and shouldn’t be here. I do have that right, and I say Arabs are welcome. And you can leave if you don’t like it.
This may or may not be terrorism. It looks like classic workplace violence to me, but we’ll see. A thorough investigation is certainly warranted so we can avoid this in the future. Or try to, at least. But racism is surely not the solution. We didn’t kick out all the white people after Tim McVeigh’s act.
November 8th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
you’re just abasing yourself here.
That’s the pot calling the kettle genetically inferior.
November 8th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
I was half-expecting Steve to break out an argument whereby people with the name “Malik” are two standard deviations more likely to be terrorists…
But, OK, let’s say he was a terrorist? What should we do about it? It doesn’t seem like labeling this act “terrorism” has any implications.
November 8th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Hasan’s attack (I predict) will prove more damaging to Muslims in America that the 9/11 attack. He was a citizen and a volunteer in the armed forces. He will be used to argue that there are no reasonable Muslims, that simply the faith itself is sufficient for distrust.
November 8th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
“I do have that right”
I don’t have that right, of course. But Mr Sailer has even less of that right. Anyone whose ancestors came here after the Revolution has no right to complain about who immigrates after them. The “let me in and then close the door” attitude is simply wrong. I recognize that even I am an immigrant, maybe Mr Sailer should recognize that too.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
“Hasan’s attack (I predict) will prove more damaging to Muslims in America that the 9/11 attack.”
Sadly, that is very true. And it is something Muslims already struggle with. The second Surah of the Quran makes it very clear that acts like this are unacceptable and an affront to Allah. But from a practical standpoint, they are effective. Unfortunately, no religion has ever been effective at preventing their followers from committing acts of violence. I still think it’s worth trying, but I keep my hopes low.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
fostert:
Sadly, this is the same Surah that declares Jews to be apes.
Surah 2:65 “And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: “Be ye apes, despised and rejected.” (Yusufali translation)
And then there is Surah 9 containing among other gems the verse of the sword, so beloved by Osama and other jihadists, that makes it clear that acts like this are very acceptable and are in fact demanded by Allah.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Re Steve Sailer
Actually, I seem to recall that Mr. Sirhan was most upset about a picture of Bobby Kennedy departing a synagogue wearing a yarmulke.
Re Don Williams
Mr. Williams is most disappointing. Once again he fails to lay the blame for the shooting at Fort Hood at the foot of Israel and/or the neocons. The best he can do is make the nonsensical claim that Marty Peretz is as bad as Major Hasan. No matter what Mr. Peretz wrote or said, he had no hand in the decision to go to war with Iraq. The folks to blame for that are Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld. I doubt that any of those gentlement ever read a word written by Mr. Peretz.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
Re FedUpIndian
Actually, the statement in Sura 2.65 is entirely accurate, except that it doesn’t go far enough. All humans are a species of apes (the hairless ape), having a common ancestor with chimpanzees about 6 million years ago.
November 8th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
What do we do about it?
Well, the first thing is we start admitting that there’s a conflict between the Invite the World and the Invade the World conventional wisdom when it comes to domestic terrorism. If you want to have an ambitious, interventionist foreign policy, like, say, the British had in the 19th Century, then it’s not prudent to let in to your country a lot of aggrieved foreigners (as the Victorian British sensibly did).
Or, if you want to let in a lot of foreigners, like the U.S. did in the 19th Century, then an isolationist foreign policy would help keep the immigrants’ less aggrieved.
Or, you can resolve to not pester foreigners and not let them pester you.
The one that thing that is self-evidently contradictory is the WaPo/WSJ conventional wisdom: Invade the World _and_ Invite the World.
November 8th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
“Sadly, this is the same Surah that declares Jews to be apes.”
Well, no religious text is perfect. Take a look at Joshua if you really want to see some heinous thoughts. In general, religion is very much a double edged sword. And sadly, genocide is very much a part of all of them. This precisely why religious fundamentalism is a real threat. And it doesn’t matter which religion, the fundamentalists are crazy and violent in all of them.
November 8th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
More on safe havens (this is from bloomberg news)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a3k8C2.d8qkM&pos=9
” Abdolmalek Rigi, leader of the Jundallah terrorist group, was released from custody in Pakistan three weeks before the organization carried out a suicide bombing in Iran, an Iranian military officer said.
“On Sept. 27, Abdolmalek Rigi was arrested in one of the streets of Quetta but after one hour he was released following the intervention of the intelligence service of our neighboring country,” Iran’s state-run Fars news agency cited Brigadier General Hossein Salami, deputy head of the Revolutionary Guards, as saying. ”
=====
The examples with the US, Bangladesh above, and this one with Pakistan show the distinction between non-safe-haven and safe-haven.
November 8th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
RE SLC at 57: “Mr. Williams is most disappointing. ”
===============
Well, here is a little gem to brighten your day, SLC. You mock my Alma Mater — Mr Jefferson’s University — as Utterly Vacuous Assholes.
On the other hand, you fear the Iranian nuclear program and its extractions of weapons grade uranium via centrifuges. What that technology portends for your Israel.
Well, guess where the ultracentrifuge for separation of uranium isotopes was invented, SLC?
Ever hear of Jesse Beams? Magnetic bearings?
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Beams
ha ha ha. Wa Hoo Wa, motherfucker.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Re Don Williams
Gee, Prof. Beams worked for Ernest O. Lawrence at Yale. Prof. Lawrence invented the cyclotron when he was a Prof. of Physics at U. C. Berkeley. Go Bears.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Matt points out:
“The key assets Hasan had, from the point of view of committing acts of violence against Americans, were access to weapons and a physical location inside the United States of America.”
Thanks, Matt, you remain a valuable covert agent in our conspiracy to raise awareness about immigration. You’ll find the usual — a crisp $5 bill — under the flowerpot on your window ledge.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Hey, SLC, give our thanks to John Kluge for that 7000 acres of farmland.
Although I suppose that big-titted British shikseh kinda spoiled John’s taste for the gentleman farmer life, hee hee.
Normally one has to read the Book of Deuteronomy –or maybe the story of Samson — to see that kind of nutcutting.
PS Jesse Beams’ graduate assistant on the uranium centrifuge Manhattan Project work was Frank Hereford — later Dean of the University. I actually took a class in physics from Frank. He had some influence on my career — answering my question re the monetary rewards of being a physicist by explaining that one can’t make shit being a researcher in physics.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Mr Sailer, you are an immigrant. How can you say that your ancestors had the right to come here while other people don’t have that right? Really Steve, this is a very serious double standard that you continue to perpetuate. Got any justification for it?
November 8th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Of course I do:
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2006/feb/13/00012/
Haven’t you guys figured out yet that I always know what I’m talking about?
November 8th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
“Haven’t you guys figured out yet that I always know what I’m talking about?”
Actually I’ve noticed that you’re pretty smart when you talk about non-racist issues. And I just read your link and found that it does not even remotely justify the double standard that you, as an immigrant, continue to hold. You are an immigrant who is opposed to letting other immigrants in. You simply follow the age old “let me in and then close the door” philosophy. It’s a damn shame my ancestors didn’t close the door when your ancestors wanted to come in.
November 8th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
This week Gallup announced the results of polling 259,542 adults in 135 countries during 2007-2009:
November 8th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Dear Fostert:
You beef is with the framers of the U.S. Constitution, who explained the point of the Constitution in the Preamble:
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. [Emphasis added]
November 8th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
210 million say they want to move to north america, the article says? North America can probably easily support more than that. Of course, it wouldn’t necessarily be a good thing, since it might decimate a lot of the countries that people are emigrating from.
November 8th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
The loss of life is the tragedy here. I could care less why this man did what he did, and could care even less about designating it as Terrorism or Just Plain Crazy. The cynical side of me says that all the reporting to be done in the coming days and years is just a way to sell ad space and books or flame one another in the comments.
As far as the war is concerned, it brings into focus just how diffuse the thing is: The Discursive War. The connections between the war and this act are broad, to be sure, but I do believe that we obsess too much over terrorism and training camps when all anyone ever needs is a handgun and a grudge. That goes for terrorists, crazies, or the assholes who shoot up bars or break up house parties every damn weekend.
Our F-35s, our enhanced interrogations, our poppy-eradication programs, our Predator drones and our thousands of troops about to be deployed are useless to stop this kind of act. Too often we and especially our political and military leaders pretend that that is in fact what all that stuff is doing. It ain’t.
And, Steve at #64, Hasan was born and raised in the USA. His name’s a little funny, sure, but he’s just as much one of our own as Timothy McVeigh.
November 8th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
“People commit acts of violence for any number of reasons and ultimately, their motives are irrelevant.”
Interesting. . . your not a student of the law are you? Perhaps you should investigate what constitutes the difference between first degree and any other order of murder under the law.
But Then, too, if what you say is correct, There should be no such thing as a “Hate crime,” right?
November 8th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
And then, there was this:
“And the sooner the New Republic goes out of print, the better.”
So much easier to attack the messenger than to take the time to refute the message..
And The byline to this site is, “Think Progress?”
That’s comical!
November 9th, 2009 at 12:06 am
Mr Sailer, I have no beef with the Constitution’s preamble, but you should. Had my ancestors interpreted that “to ourselves and our posterity” phrase the way you do, you’d be writing from Europe now. I interpret ‘we’ to mean all of us who are born here or naturalized. I recognize that letting in immigrants like you is a good thing. If you don’t think letting in immigrants like yourself is good, then go back to from where you came. I’d gladly let a Mexican take your place. But you simply won’t acknowledge my point: you are an immigrant and you are maintaining a double standard when you say immigrants like yourself shouldn’t be let in. Until you give up your citizenship, you are simply maintaining a logical double standard with no justification for it.
November 9th, 2009 at 12:17 am
“you are an immigrant and you are maintaining a double standard when you say immigrants like yourself shouldn’t be let in.”
I’m not sure what Sailer’s position is, but the idea that all people have the “right” to immigrate to the U.S. simply because some other people in the past were allowed to immigrate to the U.S. is a really bizarre kind of moral consistency. I like immigration; immigration’s great. But no state in the world ever should or ever will adopt a policy that says all people have an equal right to residence in their territory. It’s inconsistent with the very idea of the modern state, not to mention insane as actual public policy.
November 9th, 2009 at 12:18 am
And look Mr Sailer, you’re a smart guy, so you should be able to get this concept: the policies you advocate would have prevented your ancestors from entering this country. You’d be a European if my ancestors listened to your logic. Instead, we let you in and then discriminated against you for a few generations. And yeah, that discrimination was wrong. But so was the indentured servitude my ancestors lived under. The Revolution was actually a boon to us. Fighting in the Revolution was how we got out of those contracts.
November 9th, 2009 at 12:24 am
Fostert, MY ancestor fought in the Revolutionary War as a soldier. And I agree with Steve. The American Indians adopted your “open door” approach at the first Thanksgiving –how did that work out for them.
We can not survive as a Republic if our population density approaches China’s — the overriding need to support huge numbers of people will demand an authoritarian government.
Our geography is why we have been the last bastion of human liberty on this planet –not our moral virtue.
I owe loyalty to ALL of my countrymen –regardless of race , ethnic group, or national origin. But it is time to close to doors. Our duty to 17 Plus million of our fellow countrymen who are unemployed demands that. As does our duty to millions more are stuck in prison because they were never given an opportunity at a decent life. As does our knowledge that our lifestyle is not sustainable in the longer term given the rapid depletion of natural resources.
IF you do not feel that loyalty — if you do not make a distinction between your countrymen and foreigners, then how are you any different from spies Aldrich Ames or Robert Hannsen? Or the Rosenbergs? Were they not acting as “citizens of the world”?
November 9th, 2009 at 12:30 am
“But no state in the world ever should or ever will adopt a policy that says all people have an equal right to residence in their territory.”
I’m totally with you. I’m just against the idea of shutting the door. And I really don’t like people who want to shut the door after they got in. I think we should accept people on two criteria: skills and family. We can’t accept everyone, so people with valuable skills or relatives here should be let in first. And that is what we do, although the skills we look for are a little out of whack. We can find enough left handed middle relievers in the population we have. We really don’t need another one from Korea. But how many great chemists do we have? Skills should be based on science, engineering, or medicine. And if you’re a good lawyer, that should count against you. We have more lawyers than we need already.
November 9th, 2009 at 12:31 am
Come to think of it, if we do not distinguish between our fellow Americans and foreigners, then why criticize Hasan?
If we are all “citizens of the world” then what is the difference between shooting people in Afghanistan and Iraq versus shooting people in Fort Hood, Texas? Why praise one and condemm the other?
Because of the will of the US Congress? Give me a break. THAT is the biggest pack of psychopathic, amoral whores on this planet.
The idea that a group which stabs the American people in the back every day before breakfast could somehow lend moral sanctity to an act is bullshit.
November 9th, 2009 at 12:55 am
“IF you do not feel that loyalty — if you do not make a distinction between your countrymen and foreigners, then how are you any different from spies Aldrich Ames or Robert Hannsen?”
I do make a distinction: you are a citizen or not. Come here, become a citizen, and you are as American as I am. But I don’t think we need to close the doors yet. In fact, we probably will never have to. Immigration is actually a great way to improve our culture. Let in talented people, and we’ll be successful. The guy who started Google is an immigrant, want to kick him out? Surely you don’t. And he is every bit an American. Immigration is what keeps our country vibrant. And so what if people have “strange” names, they always have had them. “O’Reilly” was once a strange name but is accepted now. We’ve taken down our “Irish Need Not Apply” signs and they are part of our culture now. Someday, Hernandez, Nguyen, and Sangupta will be just as accepted. They make our country better and more colorful. And they are Americans.
November 9th, 2009 at 12:58 am
Fuck the Palestinians, the rotten little pieces of shit. No small wonder that leftists love support to an ethnic group that just can’t suppress the urge to murder. But of course Israeli aggression or “apartheid” led him to murder 13 courageous American soldiers.
November 9th, 2009 at 1:04 am
And just a little point on names, MacDaniel was too strange for America back then, so it became Forrester instead. Since then, it’s dropped some letters.
November 9th, 2009 at 1:08 am
Yeah, but Matt, in all fairness, Marty Peretz thinks it’s an act of jihad when a swarthy cabdriver cuts him off.
November 9th, 2009 at 1:16 am
[...] Nidal Malik Hasan, Terrorphobia, and the Safe Haven Freakout [...]
November 9th, 2009 at 1:41 am
I’m glad I’m drunk reading from about 70 on… We’re circling the drain here.
November 9th, 2009 at 2:08 am
Well iluvcapra, read this:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120162816
It answers a lot of my questions, but raises on scary one. Turns out Hasan has been a nutcase for a while and people knew it. His colleagues were wondering if he was a terrorist. And his colleagues weren’t some jokers on the Jerry Springer Show, they were doctors, and trained in psychology to boot. Shouldn’t that raise a red flag or something? I really don’t want to place any blame on anyone, but it seems that their should be a process for getting rid of people who are obviously psychotic.
November 9th, 2009 at 2:23 am
From the Daily Telegraph (London):
Fort Hood gunman had told US military colleagues that infidels should have their throats cut
By Nick Allen in Fort Hood
Major Nidal Malik Hasan, the gunman who killed 13 at America’s Fort Hood military base, once gave a lecture to other doctors in which he said non-believers should be beheaded and have boiling oil poured down their throats.
He also told colleagues at America’s top military hospital that non-Muslims were infidels condemned to hell who should be set on fire. The outburst came during an hour-long talk Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, gave on the Koran in front of dozens of other doctors at Walter Reed Army Medical Centre in Washington DC, where he worked for six years before arriving at Fort Hood in July.
Colleagues had expected a discussion on a medical issue but were instead given an extremist interpretation of the Koran, which Hasan appeared to believe.
It was the latest in a series of “red flags” about his state of mind that have emerged since the massacre at Fort Hood, America’s largest military installation, on Thursday.
… Fellow doctors have recounted how they were repeatedly harangued by Hasan about religion and that he openly claimed to be a “Muslim first and American second.”
One Army doctor who knew him said a fear of appearing discriminatory against a Muslim soldier had stopped fellow officers from filing formal complaints. [emphasis added]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6526030/Fort-Hood-gunman-had-told-US-military-colleagues-that-infidels-should-have-their-throats-cut.html
November 9th, 2009 at 2:25 am
And this really gets down to what I said about religious fundamentalism. It’s the fundamentalism that’s the problem, not any particular religion. This guy really was a fundamentalist, and he was scaring people for years. There is no place for that in our military. But what can they do? The have enough trouble attracting medical professionals, and they already have less than they need. Under those circumstances, it’s hard to fire anyone. Especially when he owes you for medical school.
November 9th, 2009 at 2:34 am
It seems Mr Sailer and I can agree on something. But I’m sure he’ll have a different spin. Oddly enough, I’ll probably agree with some of what he’s going to say about Political Correctness. People should be polite to other cultures, but nobody should get a free pass. Criticism is earned, not doled out by race.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:09 am
Given this info, I wonder if they were sending him abroad to get fragged. It wouldn’t surprise me, and let’s face it, it makes the paperwork easier. And it’s much easier to make things go away Afghanistan. They probably weren’t doing this, but from his perception, you could see how he might expect that. And from the standpoint of everyone else, well, it’s easier than a court case.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:20 am
I’d expect Popeye the Racist Man to follow the chaff, given that he draws his graphs to fit his prejudices, but fostert? Really?
Me, I’ll go with Mark Ames on this: all signs point to Nidal Hasan doing something very American: go postal.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:52 am
“but fostert? Really?”
Yes, really. It’s not even that he’s a fundamentalist. It’s that he’s crazy. And as a person who really does have mental disorders, I do know what someone who’s really nuts is capable of. What I’m capable of is scary and it takes control not to do it. But I’m just bipolar. This guy is way out there (I’m guessing sociopath) and his family isn’t really any help. I’m sure they’re loving people, but they don’t really get it. This guy was really unstable and people really knew it. This wasn’t just a one time snap where you lose control. This guy was a real sociopath on a light trigger. And sociopaths need to be locked up. Preferably in solitary. They cannot make any judgments of what’s right and wrong, but are usually very intelligent. The kind of people who can easily pass through medical school and be a serial killer at the same time. The only people that are potentially more dangerous are the Borderline Personalities. But they are almost always non-violent.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:16 am
Nice link, pseudonymous in NC, by the way. And look, some people really need to be locked up. If I don’t die first, they have a padded room for me. And at some point, I’ll need to be in it. It’s just how it is. At some point, the worms really do eat too far into your brain. And as a scary paranoid fear, that sounds really great, doesn’t it? But for me, I really do have cranial schistosomiasis, so I really do have worms eating my brain. Fortunately, they eat very little. Mostly blood. And they are really a fluke, not a worm.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:16 am
When the government of your society is involved in a whole bunch of high-profile projects of killing, oppressing and humiliating people for being Muslims, statistically there will be inevitably a backlash and some Muslims will try to kill some of you for being a part of this society. Incidentally, this backlash might still go on for a long time, even after you stop killing Muslims for being Muslims, because a lot people will still remember their parents, friends and relatives killed by you. You better stop it now and start apologizing and begging for their forgiveness.
Come on, you idiots, what can be more obvious than that?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:38 am
abb1, I think you’re right on this as a trigger. But this person has the real insanity that doesn’t just come from society. He has the wrong chemicals in his brain. It’s not an excuse, but it is a reason to lock him up. Too bad we did it too late.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:46 am
As to my assertion that this man is a sociopath, I’d point to the fact that he was completely calm while shooting people. Only a person devoid of moral judgment can do that. And that’s not Islam, it’s mental disorder. It’s being a sociopath.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:47 am
He had the same chemicals you and I have. I can easily imagine a set of circumstances where the chemicals in your head would mix and reacted in a similar way and you would end up doing something similar.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:11 am
But one thing is important. It’s the twentieth anniversary of the Berlin Wall falling. To me, there really isn’t anything more special. And many people have pieces of that wall, but mine was broken off by my sister and her sledge hammer. I was too young (still in college), but my sister really did bash into that wall on that day. That must have felt good.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:17 am
Re Don Williams @ 65
Gee, I took courses as an undergraduate at Berkeley from Nobel Prize winners Emilio Segre and Owen Chamberlain and courses from Nobel Prize winners Julian Schwinger and Steven Weinberg as a graduate student so there. Of course, given the ethnicity of Segre, Schwinger, and Weinberg, probably Mr.
Williams is greatly underwhelmed.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:06 am
Who’s that academic Agamben who argues that “safe havens” are really “spaces of exception” where abnormal and emergency rules become everyday rules, applying this to “safe havens” and black sites? Safe havens are ludicrous. Worst case scenario here only makes them more so. Lotta countries out there. Enormous shipping vessels disappear off the face of the earth. Thousands of islands in the south China sea. American can’t track people inside the country. Other people just start shooting.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:27 am
Re fostert at 97: “As to my assertion that this man is a sociopath, I’d point to the fact that he was completely calm while shooting people. Only a person devoid of moral judgment can do that. And that’s not Islam, it’s mental disorder. It’s being a sociopath.”
—————–
Er..what do you think the Army DOES, fostert? Or the police, for that matter.
And I don’t mean that as a slap at the Army. There are schools here in the USA that train CIVILIANS who want to carry concealed handguns in how to execute armed combat –IF JUSTIFIED.
One of the more prominent trainers advises people to shoot home invaders in the back without warning if the invader is armed. (Turns out you are not LEGALLY required to call out “Drop the weapon or I will shoot” and there are several reasons why it is a bad idea tactically.)
The Law has its rules, of course, but in Texas there is also the informal custom of shooting assholes who just “need killin”.
The Army actually keeps tight control of its weapons. I wonder where Mr Hasan got the piece?
November 9th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Re Don Williams
The Army actually keeps tight control of its weapons. I wonder where Mr Hasan got the piece?
He apparently legally purchased at least one of the guns from a local gun shop.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:44 am
This just in from ABC News:
“U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.
It is not known whether the intelligence agencies informed the Army that one of its officers was seeking to connect with suspected al Qaeda figures, the officials said.
One senior lawmaker said the CIA had, so far, refused to brief the intelligence committees on what, if any, knowledge they had about Hasan’s efforts. ”
Ref: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood-shooter-contact-al-qaeda-terrorists-officials/story?id=9030873
Er..one of the things an intel agency does –especially if it lacks sources within the enemy — is to try to coerce a detected spy into “turning”. I wonder if the CIA was trying to exert psychological pressure on Hasan to become a double agent?
Some people reactly badly to that.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:56 am
What’s the recruitment paradigm? Ah yes, MICE. Money, Ideology, Compromise, Ego.
Compromise, as in Blackmail. Not so much a seduction, as a rough wooing.
Kinda hard to predict how a subject is going to react to that. Although him visiting a gun store would not be a good sign, if the case officer was competent and kept the subject under surveillance. Except that can be different to do on a military base if you don’t want to let the Army in on the game.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Of course, if you are CIA and you let Army in on the game, then Army Intel and DIA will want to stick their grubby little fingers into the pie– take over your source.
SecDef Rumsfeld and DCI Tenet fought a long and bitter war over Rumsfeld’s attempt to set up his own HUMINT Clandestine Service within DOD instead of letting CIA keep its traditional control of that function.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Re Don Williams
Given what happened to the Eagles last night, I’m surprised that Mr. Williams would show his face here today.
November 9th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
No matter what Hasan’s motivations, killing military personnel to be deployed to the Middle East is never terrorism. Terrorism is flying a plane into an office building (or bombing a wedding party) and killing hundreds of people, even children, who have nothing to do with your war except the bad fortune of living in a participating country. Killing military personnel who are actually going to be fighting is about the most legitimate act of war possible.
November 9th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Well, those soldiers at Fort Hood were my countrymen — so I would vote for Hasan’s execution if I was on the jury. If he had gone after William Kristol or our other Neocon propagandists, then my thirst for justice might have been a little less pressing.
However, I suspect Hasan’s trial is going to pose a dilemma. He has nothing to lose and if he exposes the deceit behind the US Government’s policy in the Middle East –exposes how Big Oil and the Israel Lobby have lied to the American People — then some people may be made uncomfortable.
So I suspect our Orwellian News Media will be careful to paint him as an unhinged loon while being careful to not report his actual words, specific grievances and justifications.
November 9th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
One senior lawmaker said the CIA had, so far, refused to brief the intelligence committees on what, if any, knowledge they had about Hasan’s efforts. ”
Probably because the spooks are busily fabricating it as we speak.
November 9th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Re pseudo at 110: “Probably because the spooks are busily fabricating it as we speak.”
Hey, that’s what the burn bags are for. Hee hee.
Although there sometimes are a few bugs in the system. As Colonel Ollie North could explain to you.
By the way, did they ever locate Dick Cheney’s missing email archive? http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/01/hbc-90002219
November 9th, 2009 at 11:55 pm
[...] post is from here. Visit the link to read more.Either way, something broke down. I’m guessing that the mental [...]
November 10th, 2009 at 3:05 am
[...] post is from here. Visit the link to read more.Either way, something broke down. I’m guessing that the mental [...]
November 10th, 2009 at 5:02 am
[...] Quote of the day about the Fort Hood murders: “This is perhaps a moment to reflect on the fact that the murder of innocent people is not really made better or worse by deep inquiry into the precise nature of the crime.”, Matthew Yglesias, 8 November 2009 — Close you eyes and cry “Ya, Ya, Ya”. That also helps to obscure the obvious. [...]
November 11th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
I keep seeing people discussing whether this horrible act was “Terrorism” or not. Last time I checked, terrorism was defined (roughly) as :
An attack on civilians with the intention of achieving a political result.
These were soldiers. This man made a decision to act as an agent of Americas enemies and commited an act of war, not terrorism.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
[...] Well yes, words matter. And Matthew Yglesias complicates things more: [...]