Freak Out / And Give In
Interesting, though somewhat sad, to see Billy Corgan pedling H1N1 conspiracy theories:
If you follow some of the links I have been supplying as of late, you’ll notice many are focused on the propaganda build up to our day of reckoning with the Swine Flu virus. I say ‘propaganda’ because, in my heart, there is something mighty suspicious about declaring an emergency for something that has yet to show itself to be a grand pandemic. Our American President Obama has declared a national emergency about this virus, which he in his own words said was, at this point, a preventative measure. So, why declare an emergency if there isn’t one?
Obviously the general idea with a potential infectious disease pandemic is to take emergency measures before everyone gets sick.
And then there’s this:
I would suggest however that it is possible the virus is not a naturally occurring virus. I have read reports from people who say (as doctors) that there is evidence to suggest this virus was created by man; to call it Swine Flu is then a misnomer, as it really is Swine Flu plus some other stuff stitched together. These doctors said such genetic mutation was impossible in nature.
I’m pretty sure that’s supposed to be the cylons were created by man.
“Cherub Rock” from back in the day when the Smashing Pumpkins were great seems apropos:
Tell me all of your secrets
Cannot help but believe this is true
Tell me all of your secrets
I know, I know, I know
Should have listened when I was told
And, yes, he should have! Pandemic flu is a serious problem. This isn’t propganda.
48 Responses to “Freak Out / And Give In”
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October 29th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Well…yeah.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Billy C obviously doesn’t have kids under the age of two, otherwise he’d get his ass down to the CVS and wait in line for an H1N1 shot. He should go play his guitar and stop flaunting his ignorance on the internets. 1979 was a cool song but it’s been pretty much downhill from there as far as I can tell.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Er.. maybe we shouldn’t let Public Health Policy be set by ROCK MUSICIANS?
Especially rock musicians whose thought processes on their blog suggests abuse of very powerful drugs.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Who is this guy?
October 29th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
It seems to me that Corgan’s willing involvement with Courtney Love calls his reasoning powers into question.
What scares me most is that what he’s saying repeats all the themes of ’70s prog rock operas. If that’s where he’s headed musically he must be stopped, by man-made swine flu or anything else.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
“These doctors said such genetic mutation was impossible in nature.”
This is what happens when ID is taught in high schools. Where did “these doctors” go to school, Grenada?
October 29th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Yeah, it’d be one thing if he were a truther, but not trusting the government on swine flu is really ridiculous.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
heart pumpkins music, but they can go to hell on that kind of thing.
Oh – and fuck Lars, too.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Matt, re: music, you are very very generous with the use of the word “great.”
The ultimate arbiter of greatness in music? Two ways of measuring. 1, record sales. 2, acclaim by actual musicians. Non-musician fan proclamations? Worthless, except as indicted by sales.
Number 1 is objective, but I like 2, personally. The Pumpkins are a solid late 20th century commercial act. Nothing more.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
I’m beginning to think that H1N1 will be Obama’s true Achilles’ heel. The manufacturing delays and chaotic, piecemeal distribution (with healthy adults receiving vaccines while disabled children are overlooked) are shaping into a political perfect storm. I don’t know of a single parent who isn’t obsessing over the lack of vaccine AND the dearth of any cogent information about when to expect one, and how to get it.
As the parent of a child with acute medical needs, I’m dismayed that none of his clinicians has any information, or even seems inclined to help. I’m hearing privately from my healthy children’s pediatrician that the vaccine won’t be widely available until the beginning of 2010, contra Sebelius. (She and Frieden should be fired, IMO, for their incompetence.)
The fortunate thing is that the virus hasn’t mutated into something super-virulent . . . . yet. (A small percentage get really, really sick, with mortality rates among children and young adults higher than for seasonal flu.) Frankly, nothing excuses the complacency and mixed messages from the administration on down. In Katrina fashion, this highlights how out of touch the Beltway punditocracy is — have you read any urgent posts from Ezra Klein on this issue? Exactly. And yet outside of Washington — from Seattle and L.A. to Florida to Annapolis to Brooklyn — this is Topic A.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
In case anyone is confused:
Thomas is a conservative, so he thinks that insulting Truthers is really going to bug us. Because liberals, progressives, and center-left types are really into the 911Truth movement. Of course.
It’s similar to that way the writers at National Review think that liberals in 2009 are really irritated by denunciations of Alger Hiss.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
They say these things as doctors, though that may not be what they actually are. For instance, Hugh Laurie says many things “as a doctor”.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Excuse me, I’m trying to get something going.
Olympia Snowe is from Maine, where they have lobsters.
Ben Nelson is from Nebraska, where they have cattle.
Lobster and steak. Surf and Turf. The priciest special on the menu, that you can’t afford.
Senate centrists out to kill HCR = the Surf and Turf Coalition.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Why anyone listens to the political opinions of rock stars escapes me.
Nonetheless, this vaccine debacle does prove the utter incompetence of the Obama administration. It is the Obama Katrina. Heckuva Job, Sebelius!
October 29th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
You go, Al!
THIS one’s going to catch on like wildfire!
Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
I wonder if he got his medical degree from the same place Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey got theirs.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Hey Billy Corgan, the swine flu is like viral marketing without the marketing and you want it to fail, not succeed. If anybody in high school listened to your dinosaur band you might have a clue about what is going on because the flu is, like, really big there right now. Instead maybe you should focus on prostate exams and shit that fits your fans demographics a bit better. I’m sorry there’s not a vaccine for your angst but, really, STFU about the swine flu.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Obama is so on top of this flu shit and still gets criticized. He already signed an emergency declaration. I think it took Bush 3 days after Katrina made landfall to do the same. Secretary Sebelius bodyslammed Chuck Todd for not knowing how to sneeze. What the frack is Obama supposed to do, shrink himself and go in a tiny submarine and go inside sick people and fight the flu with minilasers?
And it’s the private sector that is fucking up with the vaccine production so conservatives who are advocating the government do more, I’m all for nationalizing drug manufacturing. Not for that? Then you too can STFU.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
I see Billy’s been reading the pre-Katrina FEMA guide. Why evacuate New Orleans when it isn’t even raining yet? What’s all this hubbub about controlled burns for wildfires in California?
Is he really too dumb to figure out that vaccines only work before you get sick? I really wish the anti-vaxxers on both sides would join forces and set up a little colony far far away from us sane people.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
I saw an interview with billy corgan during the bush years, and the interviewer asked him if he followed politics. He replied not really. So, not surprisingly, the musings of someone who doesn’t really follow politics aren’t going to be very accurate on a political issue.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
I think there is a very good chance that the party that eventually replaces the dying GOP is a neo-luddite, anti-science populist party that attracts the less-than-intelligent on both sides of the political spectrum. Eventually people on the center-right will realize that they really like making money – and paying attention to the truth is actually very helpful in that endeavor. And eventually the crazys on the left will realize that none of the elected Democrats actually listen to them.
Then a super coalition of the ignorant will form. Imagine having a party that rejects AGW and evolution, says the world is 6,000 years old, won’t vaccinate their children, values the “lives” of fetuses and animals more than humans and rejects almost all new technology, science and medicine.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Sounds like Billy saw a headline and didn’t read the article under it.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
“Siva” from Gish was way better than all that came after.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
I think this post of his explains everything: http://www.everythingfromheretothere.com/2009/10/21/breaking-the-chains/
October 29th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
this vaccine debacle does prove the utter incompetence of the Obama administration.
The vaccine failed to be produced in sufficient quantities by free-market pharmaceutical companies. Who took a very long time to realize and admit they weren’t going to make their initial projections.
Likewise, distribution of the vaccine is very “free market” in their approach. There exists no centralized system to get vaccines to the patients who need it most. In fact, the feds can’t force doctors to only provide it to the most vulnerable populations–if your doctor gives it to you as a healthy adult, there’s no penalty or anything.
Oh, but recognizing the new strain is present, tracking the outbreaks, getting samples, doing the basic research and developing the seed stock from which the vaccine is made? All of that is centrally done by the government. And, uh, big government totally kicked ass on all those things.
Conservatives are blaming Obama for the failures of the free market–while suggesting that the problem is too much government. The reality is that aspects of this outbreak that were the responsibility of the government were mostly well-handled. Stuff left to the free market (uh, GROWING THE DAMN VACCINE) was mostly a clusterfuck.
That’s reality.
October 29th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Regarding shortages and piecemeal distribution of the vaccine,
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_10/020697.php
As for the sick not receiving the vaccine, swine flu is actually more dangerous to the healthy than the sick. It has to do with the inability of the adaptive immune system to recover memory cells quickly, since it is unlikely you have any immunological memory to this brand new virus. Since you have to rely on reassortment and selection, this can take longer, leaving your innate immune system to handle the infection. If this takes too long, the innate response doesn’t get dialed down, which in severe instances can be fatal. But in sick individuals, their innate immune system is frequently compromised, and as such poses less of a risk in the event of infection.
October 29th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
They don’t have to be far away from those of us who got our shots, they just have to be close enough to each other to share in the benefits of not getting theirs.
I believe he’s taking Homer Simpson’s approach to vaccines.
October 29th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
but what do the Smoking Popes think about H1N1?
October 29th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
“These doctors said such genetic mutation was impossible in nature.”
Bullshit. Influenza A is a segmented RNA virus. RNA viruses reproduce with a very high error rate (about 1 per 10^5 bases), plus, it being a segmented virus with its genome in eight strands, it can recombine with other strains of influenza A if there’s a coinfected cell. It mutates like a motherfucker, in other words.
October 29th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
In retrospect, these comments by Phil “Georgia Peach” Gingrey and Paul “It’s Not a Bill of Attainder” Broun are hilarious: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22205.html .
October 29th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
If only it were that simple. Idiots aren’t the only free-riders on the herd immunity system. Babies too young to be vaccinated and people with compromised immune systems(like chemo patients) don’t have a choice. Phil Plait on the Bad Astronomy blog has been tireless, if hyperbolic, in pointing out that the damage isn’t limited to anti-vaxxers and their kids.
October 29th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Stuff left to the free market (uh, GROWING THE DAMN VACCINE) was mostly a clusterfuck.
Then maybe the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION should not have allowed the free market the screw it up. Maybe a little oversight was needed. But the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION didn’t do anything at all to make the free market work.
October 29th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
godoggo baiting metaphor!
All I can say is that the waiting list for the shot is kind of annoying. Maybe I should start hounding my doctor with obnoxious phone calls.
October 29th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
…. No, it pretty much is propaganda.
October 29th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
Now don’t be shy, Freddie. Please enlighten us. What’s the CDC incorrect about? Or the WHO for that matter. Or hell, even The Who have a little more credibility on this one than you.
As it stands, the best thing to do is follow the CDC guidelines and consult your physician. The next best is The Who treatment, which is take a shit ton of pills and booze and play some loud music to scare the flu out of your frightened body. In last place, as always, is a paranoid conspiracy theory.
October 29th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
@Al, who claims, “the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION didn’t do anything at all to make the free market work.”
And what, pray tell, would a more sensible president have done to “make the impossible possible”? Shit a golden brick and piss rainbow Capri Sun juice?
Be serious. It takes a hell of a lot of work to reform the health care industry. Look how many dumbshit senators it takes to fuck up a rehaul of the insurance side of it, just one part.
The only alternative presented to the “free market” so far has been socialism of various kinds. I’m all for it myself, particularly the Salvador Allende variety. I imagine I am very much in the minority on that front. Are you calling for a socialist revolution, Al?
October 29th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
http://thedoctorwithin.com/chapters.php
The chapters on vaccination are interesting.
It may not change anyone’s mind on this board… but then again, it may.
The author has researched the subject for over 15 years.
And in terms of “propaganda”, do some research on the history of both the CDC and the WHO. Once you begin to follow the money, the picture become clearer.
A nice warm-up on propaganda in general can be found at the same site:
http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/doors/Doors-of-Perception.php
Have a good day, folks!
October 29th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Al, please go look up the term “Free Market” and explain how belief in “Free Markets” translates to a well-regulated market.
Words have meanings, you know. The term “Free Market” doesn’t just mean magical ponies and fairy dust. It means a market FREE FROM GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT. The government can’t “Make the free market work”. A situation where the government has to intervene to make a market work is impossible according to Free Market ideology.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:15 am
“…there is something mighty suspicious about declaring an emergency for something that has yet to show itself to be a grand pandemic.”
Good point. Next time I see a forest fire heading toward Billy Corgan’s house, I’ll wait until the house is actually on fire to tell him about it.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:23 am
The Smashing Pumpkins were awesome. Haters need to sit down.
There, that needed to be said.
Getting that out of the way though, I also find this sad, but I can’t say I find this terribly surprising. Corgan always struck me as the type to go in for this type of thing.
Still, I think that something interesting can be extracted from all of this. Corgan’s blog post is vintage Corgan, emotive to the core. He basically sketches out his personal philosophy, which is to find the emotive content in everything. Its probably what made him such a talented songwriter. Unfortunately its also revealing, because what we find emotionally affective often reflects deeply held cultural beliefs. That Corgan is part of the dominate culture in this country means that when in his prime he wrote music according to his emotional aesthetic, that music, helped by his considerable talent and creativity, had a wide appeal and made him rich, but it also means when he speaks like this, he reflects not only the anxieties of many Americans, but also their personal mythologies and emotional aesthetics.
Basically, at the risk of making generalizations about something as nebulous as culture, for a large majority of Americans, especially those of certain generation, there is a strong bias to see the world emotionally in terms of a mythology where dark, nebulous forces, often embodied in the government, set out to harm them. Not only does the mythology reflect real anxieties about changes wrought by technology, globalization etc., it also serves a “positive” purpose in that it provides order to a complicated world where people often operate with little factual and theoretical information about how it really works, and it creates an appealing picture that allows people to view themselves as somehow uniquely privileged to insights that set them apart from others and against a cosmic evil. Basically, such mythologies give people comfort and meaning to their lives.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:31 am
I accidentally posted before I got time to edit or finish my post.
The mythologies allow people to star in their own Hollywood movies.
Why I think Corgan’s blog post is uniquely illustrative of this is because he explicitly states that he is reasoning according to his emotional perceptions of the world. Most of us don’t do this, because emotions are volatile and prone to lead us to error. Corgan apparently does, and judging by his music, it allowed him to accomplish amazing things in that pursuit. Unfortunately, its leading him astray hear due to beliefs supplied to him by his culture, beliefs unfortunately shared by many Americans.
October 30th, 2009 at 3:33 am
[...] simple answer from Matthew Yglesias – “Obviously the general idea with a potential infectious disease pandemic is to take [...]
October 30th, 2009 at 11:11 am
“When the Smashing Pumpkins were great” are six words that do not, cannot, and will not ever go together. Awful band. Just awful.
October 30th, 2009 at 11:42 am
1979 was a very good pop song, and …. we’re gonna have to leave it there.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
It is complicated, and each should make thoughtful decisions.
However, this week, over 20 children died of the flu.
How many broken hearts…….
October 30th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
I blame Jenny McCarthy
October 30th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
I was a huge huge Pumpkins lover as a young man, spent hours caning the first two albums, sent away for the lyric sheet, thought Mellon Collie was just not as good, and turned on the band when the normals got into that “rat in a cage” tune. Never listened to a thing afterwards; I guess they sound like Depeche Mode now?
I pulled out Siamese Dream recently and was surprised how turgid and inert it was. Really plodding and dull music. You can reduce everything down to “Disarm” and “1979″ and be happy.
But this is all beside the point. Every health scare has its conspiratorial interpreters — the cold equations of epidemiology are tough to get your head around, and an ideological backdrop of heroic American individualism makes it that much harder. There is no “human face” to be put on swine flu, or any other disease. There’s no one behind the curtain. It would make it easier to feel like you’re fighting if there was.
The real issue is: why do these conspiratorial interpreters come from the celebrity quasi-left? More importantly, why do they have such strong media gravity, against scientific consensus? (asked-and-answered i guess — the media loves celebrities and hates talking about science)
But it’s a pattern you see everywhere. Jenny McCarthy’s kid has autism and now she wants you to forgo vaccinating yours. The numbers on this stuff are terrifying.
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:05 am
[...] Billy Corgan Pushes Swine Flu Vaccine Paranoia October 29th, 2009 14 Comments I’ve had it up to here with this non-science bull. Stop [...]