Baucus, Conrad Team Up to Surrender to Joe Wilson
Everyone’s had a good time making fun of Joe Wilson, but it’s worth observing that Senators Kent Conrad (D-ND) and Max Baucus (D-MT) are going to make sure that Wilson’s outburst lets him win the substantive policy fight:
The controversy over Republican Rep. Joe Wilson’s shouting out “You Lie!” at the President over his claim that illegal immigrants wouldn’t benefit from health-care reform apparently sparked some reconsideration of the relevant language. “We really thought we’d resolved this question of people who are here illegally, but as we reflected on the President’s speech last night we wanted to go back and drill down again,” said Senator Kent Conrad, one of the Democrats in the talks after a meeting Thursday morning. Baucus later that afternoon said the group would put in a proof of citizenship requirement to participate in the new health exchange — a move likely to inflame the left.
The policy rationale for declining to provide subsidies to people who are in the country illegally is fairly clear. But the new Wilson-Baucus line is really nuts. They’re saying that people should be required to provide proof of citizenship before they buy health insurance on the individual market with their own money. This will have a direct cost to taxpayers since some verification mechanism will need to be put into place. It will also have an indirect cost to you and me and everyone we know—the vast majority of people, after all, aren’t undocumented immigrants but we’re all going to need to go through a citizenship check hassle before we buy health insurance. It will probably also make average premiums higher, since the exchanges will be left with a smaller risk pool and there’s no real reason to believe that the subset of undocumented immigrants who are capable of affording an unsubsidized insurance policy are below-average health risks. Last, of course, this will make the undocumented immigrant population sicker with negative public health consequences for their coworkers, friends, family, and the customers of the businesses they walk at.
That’s a mighty high price to ask U.S. citizens and legal residents to pay all for what amounts to spite. As I said yesterday, we could implement citizenship checks before you buy ibuprofen at CVS or before you get on the highway, but we don’t—it would be cruel and pointless, an inconvenience to everyone that accomplishes nothing. A person who wants to be deliberately tendentious could characterize SAFETEA-LU as a plan to “give highways and mass transit to illegal immigrants” but that would be an extremely strange way to look at it.
65 Responses to “Baucus, Conrad Team Up to Surrender to Joe Wilson”
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September 11th, 2009 at 10:50 am
The Birther movement proves that no citizen can rest assured that their credentials won’t be challenged. This is an insane idea.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Just do it like a real insurance company – let them sign up, and then deny them coverage if they need it.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:53 am
JohnMcG’s comedy lives on in a 2nd myglesias post!
September 11th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Baucus and Conrad’s actions are seeming curiouser by the day.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Bullies always win. That’s why Republicans — way down in the minority in both houses of Congress — control everything that happens.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:58 am
God, I can never decide which is worse in this country: the mulish stupidity of the Right, or the gutlessness of the Left.
Has anything changed since Sumner got the living shit kicked out of him under the Capitol dome?
September 11th, 2009 at 10:59 am
m yglesias, my liberal heo
September 11th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Wait, doesn’t Baucus’s comment indicate that legal aliens are also ineligible for the exchanges? Or do you just need to show proof of SOME citizenship, not necessarily US? (If the latter, how does that help with the problem of illegals? They still could prove that they are Mexican citizens.)
September 11th, 2009 at 11:00 am
We’ve had a documentation requirement for getting a job for quite a while now; it’s not much of a hassle for any legal residents or the employers. Of course, it doesn’t do much good about keeping illegals from getting jobs, the only people it helps are those selling forged/stolen ID. (Presumably the forged IDs will work fine for buying health insurance, too.) So, this idea is mostly harmless, and mostly useless. As sausage making goes, it’s pretty benign filler material.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:01 am
So, let’s see, Obama tells us that not buying insurance is behaving irresponsibly because it increases costs for the rest of us. And so we need a mandate. Baucus response: mandate that illegal aliens behave irresponsibly. Brilliant. Presumably he’s going to mandate that health care providers demand proof of citizenship before providing services.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:02 am
I don’t know, I can’t really see any upside to making sure the people who are handling a substantial portion of our meat and produce can get their illnesses treated easily.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Another stupid, surreal capitulation. Digby’s right: the only thing Democrats fear is the GOP, even when they’re controlling the levers of power.
Obama has made the political calculation that he’ll pull a bill through by treating the opposition with respect and ignoring the crazies, i.e. keeping the moderates and independents in his column. He may be correct, but I’m not so sure. I think the crazies have wormed their way into the skulls of such centrists as Ross and Cooper in the House and Landrieu, Baucus, Bayh and Lincoln in the Senate. A brilliant speech may not make much headway against the insanity that’s front and center in the U.S.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:03 am
@ibc
Baucus and Conrad aren’t “the left.” My guess is that they’re trying to validate Wilson’s nonsense in order to undermine competing bills with no concern for the actual policy impact of this measure.
It’s also worth noting that something like this was already attempted with Medicaid and ended up several eligible recipients who could not produce the needed documentation. We can expect to see a similar result here, except on an even more repugnant level as these low income workers will now be penalized under the mandate provisions.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:06 am
This is part and parcel with the idiot obstructionism towards voting. It isn’t rational, it’s exactly what Matt said – spite.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:06 am
God, I can never decide which is worse in this country: the mulish stupidity of the Right, or the gutlessness of the Left.
Baucus and Conrad aren’t “left,” they’re only marginally less conservative than the wingnuts. And it isn’t the “left” that is being gutless, it’s the alleged centrists, constantly pandering to the myth that the country is more conservative than they are and the pervasive American delusion that what they see on television represents the electorate.
Let them pander and boot this stupid thing later in the negotiations, after the TV crews get bored with the process.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Long story short: Joe Wilson was telling the truth. And now Baucus and Conrad are addressing the problem.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Baucus and Conrad are simply making an after the fact truth of Obama’s lie.
And unless you concede that Obama was lying then you can have no real rational objection to the change.
But of course the DemoFrauds know that Obama was lying.
Again.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Baucus and Conrad aren’t “the left.”
Obviously. But why are these two (and for quite a while, the Gang of Six) situated to be driving health legislation if not fecklessness on the part of the Democratic majority? And don’t say, “Seniority” because the GOP torpedoed that B.S. in their caucus a long time ago.
Bottom line is that the Dems could be passing wildly popular legislation that would set them up for a lasting majority if they would grow a pair. We could have Medicare 2.0. Instead you’re going to end up with COBRA 1.2.
It remains to be seen if this is all rope-a-dope, but if not, the voters will hate them for it.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:12 am
How mighty fucking white of you, Kent Conrad.
If the Senate Dems had a leader, Baucus and Conrad would be checking their backs before opening their mouths.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Long story short: Al is a liar and a hack, and supports babies being microchipped by the state.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:19 am
There is a class of asshole that thinks that any government aid should be painful. That keeping out the unworthy is a goal so important that it doesn’t matter how much we spend on that, even if it were to be shown that the enforcement was far more expensive than the subsidy, they wouldn’t care. They are the idiots calling for Social Security to be means tested…oh no, some old person might not be starving before their government check, better violate the agreement they’ve paid into their whole lives.
These people should be ignored. They are, frankly, bad people with crabbed little hearts and demented little minds. Their contribution to the discourse is entirely negative.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:19 am
I think that Joe Wilson just can’t do his work good.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:23 am
So far as I can tell — and this is looking at the House Ways & Means bill — the way this works is as follows:
To check your eligibility for insurance subsidies, your citizenship/residency needs to be checked and your tax information needs to be checked. There is a provision in the Ways & Means bill (sec. 142(a)(3)) charging the commissioner of the new federal agency running the insurance exchanges with responsibility for performing those eligibility checks — presumably by issuing regulations, agency directives, etc.
The amendment that the Republicans are heated up about (and which was voted down by the Democrats) would have directly given insurance companies access to the federal citizenship/residency and tax information databases to perform those checks. (The amendment does not seem to require, so far as I can tell, that those checks be performed on someone not seeking credits, as MY suggests.) I suppose there is a privacy issue with insurance companies looking at those databases, but health insurers are already under pretty strict privacy restrictions, and if they become your health insurer they will have access to much more personal information than your last year tax return data.
Long story short, the bill already calls for the checks the Republicans claim to want, but I don’t see any objection to the additional language the Republicans are proposing. Thus, I am not sure what the issue is here, from either side, and I would appreciate some education on that subject.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Ack, I gave a bad link to the Ways & Means bill. Here’s the corrected link. Section 142(a)(3) is the language requiring a determination of eligibility for subsidies.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Your socipathic indifference on this issue is alarming Matt. Baucus and Conrad are trying to get “health care reform” passed.
Democrats can not stand up on any particular issue, especially not a public option. That;That’s not how they roll.
Didn’t you write something to that effect yesterday? Why should this issue be any different?
September 11th, 2009 at 11:31 am
1) Matthew’s hysterical hyperbole shows that my suspicions yesterday were right –when I said there was something odd about the Democratic response to Joe Wilson’s charge — that Democratic leadership strangely were wanting to bury discussion of the whole subject.
That what Democrats are planning for –as a sellout to the Hispanic Lobby — is for US EMPLOYERS of illegal aliens to buy health insurance — and thereby undercut a major complaint of those opposed to illegal immigration: that uncompensated medical care for illegal aliens by hospitals imposes a huge financial burden on US citizens.
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/09/revisiting-the-you-lie-lie.php#comment-1664068
2) Matthew says:
” It will also have an indirect cost to you and me and everyone we know—the vast majority of people, after all, aren’t undocumented immigrants but we’re all going to need to go through a citizenship check hassle before we buy health insurance. ”
You mean –like the SAME check we now have to go through if we return from a day trip to Canada?
September 11th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Actually, Stupid, in order to convince the Supreme Court to rule that Social Security was Constitutional, FDR’s Justice Department argued in front of the court that individuals were not “paying into” something that was part of an “agreement”. Why do you hate FDR so much? What kind of idiot are you?
There is a class of asshole who thinks that forcing people without wealth to supply the fruits of their labor to people with a lot more wealth is the primary purpose of our national government.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Just playing devil’s advocate, one could imagine some sort of adverse selection problem with sick foreigners being especially motivated to illegally immigrate to the U.S. to buy our unsubsidized but community-rated health insurance.
In practice, I have a hard time imagining exactly what country you’d have to come from for that to look like a bargain. I can’t imagine illegal immigrants from poor countries thinking unsubsidized health insurance in America, even post-reform, would be affordable. Perhaps a more realistic danger would be people from first-world countries with cheaper/stingier health care systems coming over here to buy our health insurance when they get sick.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:38 am
In any other “civilized” society health care is provided to ALL! If a German is on holiday spending her money in Zion (National Park) and has an appendicitis she sure as effing hell should not have to worry about wether Obamacare will cost her hundreds of thousands of dollars. If a Mexican national’s water breaks as she’s scrubbing Joe and Betty’s italian tile floor she should not have to worry about where her bambino will pop out and what kind of humans, angry self-centered wolves like Bacus, Wilson and Obama or humanitarians like Kucinich and Weiner, will be there to greet it when it does.
This country is being driven down the road to hell by faux democrats (Obama and Bacus) and their cronies in the Republican party. America, once the shining light on the hill is now 37th out of 40 in quality of health care delivered. There is more than enough money to solve the problem but what lacks is political will. Faux democrats like Obama would rather wage wars with third world nations than do what is right. It costs almost 3/4 of a million dollars to deploy just one soldier overseas for just one year… then we throw them away when they come back injured. I HATE what america has become… I hate the leaders in both parties that have done it to us. When will the dry rot be exorcized and the public no longer tolerate lies and incompetence from politicians of either stripe?
PS… THE ISSUE IS ENFORCEMENT… nobody (even Joe wilson) disputes the language ing the house bill what they’re rightly PO’ed about is there not being any means of ENFORCING the clause (by design). So Obama is lying about that. There were laws in place against what Bernie Maddoff did too!…. Problem is the Government criminocracy refused to enforce them.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:43 am
> but it’s worth observing that Senators Kent
> Conrad (D-ND) and Max Baucus (D-MT) are going
> to make sure that Wilson’s outburst lets him win
> the substantive policy fight:
This is the same Matthew Yglesias who claims that the President, who holds the bully pulpit and can command 100x the media attention of any Representative, is powerless to shape the debate, control the framing, and lead.
Cranky
September 11th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Anything short of illegal immigrants dying in excruciating and mind-exploding pain over the course of weeks or months because they can’t get a prescription for antibiotics, or can’t simply see a nurse at some free clinic, is going to inflame and outrage the right beyond any level of reasonability.
That’s what Conrad and Baucus don’t get.
These people are torture fans… they love to see suffering, fear, and abject inhumanity.
(Until, of course, they pull up to the drive-thru at McDonald’s and their Big Mac meals are $9 bucks, and they go to Safeway and tomatoes are $6 a pound)
September 11th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Re Matthew’s comment “It will probably also make average premiums higher, since the exchanges will be left with a smaller risk pool and there’s no real reason to believe that the subset of undocumented immigrants who are capable of affording an unsubsidized insurance policy are below-average health risks. ”
Oh, bullshit. Where did the Swine Flu Pandemic — that has already killed thousands — originate?
A MAJOR priority of healthcare reform is to pay for the healthcare costs of the poor with the premiums and taxes of the middle and upper classes. A desirable objective, in my opinion, if the poor are US citizens.
But that same mechanism will also ensure that the US Taxpayer will be subsidizing below-market rates to cover illegal aliens– the vast majority of whom are here because they have no money and work for very low wages. Because Democrats previously have inserted explicit language in the bills to block any check of citizenship status.
2) Re Matthew’s comment :
“Last, of course, this will make the undocumented immigrant population sicker with negative public health consequences for their coworkers, friends, family, and the customers of the businesses they walk at.”
The Swine Flu Pandemic would have taken a MUCH longer time to spread –giving far longer time to develop vaccines — if Obama had not caved to the Hispanic Lobby and refused to close the US southern border when it first appeared.
The flu maps showed a strong correspondence between major US flu clusters and the major entry points on our border for illegal immigration. Arizona’s large flu cluster –larger than Southern California — was proportional to the large numbers of illegal who enter at the point south of Tucson.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:46 am
“but I don’t see any objection to the additional language the Republicans are proposing..”
Well as long as you have no privacy problems with giving insurance companies more information about you and you have a ‘Mercan sounding name like “Conrad” it won’t be a problem because we know insurance companies would never use “we can’t verify you are a citizen” or other tatics to deny coverage.
On a related note, I remember when Republicans were against big government and the crazy Xtian right would have argued that this information collection was the “mark of the beast.”
September 11th, 2009 at 11:49 am
“Oh, bullshit. Where did the Swine Flu Pandemic — that has already killed thousands — originate?”
You are right Don, we need a wall around California!
September 11th, 2009 at 11:49 am
I’ll tell ya what: when the country has driven health care costs per capita down to European levels, when no citizen goes without needed health care and doesn’t have to worry about losing insurance, then we’ll think about giving insurance to illegals. Until then, it’s Mexico’s problem.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Baucus later that afternoon said the group would put in a proof of citizenship requirement to participate in the new health exchange —
I’m fine with this as long as they also require proof of citizenship to acquire a highly contagious disease. As long as we can stop non-citizens from getting a disease that they can spread to the rest of us, it’s OK…..
September 11th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Where is the outrage?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVgOl3cETb4
September 11th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
1) I for one am sick and tired of Democrats who claim to represent poor Americans, who take the votes of poor Americans, and who then turn around and stab poor Americans in back with two-faced deceit.
2) 150 years after the Civil War, large numbers of our black youths spend their lives behind bars– because they never had a chance.
We imprison our citizens –at enormous costs– at far higher rates than any other country in the world. We have tens of millions of Americans who are long term unemployed — because our $12 TRILLION economy and 400+ billionaires never gave them the opportunity to earn a living.
3) Until those Americans are taken care of, it is highly disloyal to advocate for the entry of 1 million immigrants per year and for amnesty for 12 million illegals.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Re Stefan at 36: “I’m fine with this as long as they also require proof of citizenship to acquire a highly contagious disease. As long as we can stop non-citizens from getting a disease that they can spread to the rest of us, it’s OK…..”
————
Public health officials put infectious people in quarantine. What’s wrong with Mexico?
September 11th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Of course, letting illegal immigrants onto the highways is much more like giving them subsidies than anything else. Although they do pay for gas and tolls and thus pay for much of their share of road use.
A better analogy would maybe be refusing to sell EZ-Pass to illegal immigrants or not allowing them to buy car insurance and gas (analogous to the two functions of health insurance).
September 11th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
Bob Oso says, apropos of me: Well as long as you have no privacy problems with giving insurance companies more information about you and you have a ‘Mercan sounding name like “Conrad” it won’t be a problem because we know insurance companies would never use “we can’t verify you are a citizen” or other tatics to deny coverage.
Two things:
1) Again, I’m not really sure what the privacy issue is here. I don’t want my tax return data on the front page of the New York Times, but a health insurance company is inevitably going to know lots of things about me that I’d prefer not be public.
2) I appreciate that Hispanic, Asians, and other citzens can be unfairly victimized by ad hoc citizenship checks, but the amendment seems to require that a particular federal database be used to determine citizenship, and it wouldn’t surprise me if (in the absence of the amendment) the administrator of the federal agency would use that database anyway to perform the check.
So I am still not sure what the issue is here, either way.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Working at a public health clinic in DC, I have the unique position of being immersed in both the practical and political facets of health care. A few observations related to the “illegals”:
1. Those screaming about “illegals” use that term as coded language. What they really mean to say when screaming “illegals” is “brown-skinned poor person from a latitude south of the United States.”
2. “Illegals” suffer from the same illnesses, ailments and injuries that “legals” do. “Illegals” are often the ones doing the work that “legals” have deemed to be beneath themselves because it is unpleasant, dirty, dangerous, painful or shameful.
3. Because “illegals” function as a real part of our economy and social fabric, there is some incentive to provide them with health care. Right now much of that care is provided through hospital emergency rooms because it is a place where health care providers can easily be found at all times without a great many barriers to care. Non-profit hospitals are required to provide a certain dollar-amount of uncompensated care per year, and can often reach their quota rather quickly via uninsured patients (a number of whom are “illegals”).
As a sign off, I have begun to wonder if Republicans are beginning to use the current health care debate as a means of beginning to frame a coming immigration debate…
September 11th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
You know what’s really crazy? Those Republican governors threatening to block federal health laws from going into effect could end up being regarded as “heroes” when the rest of us are forced to buy coverage from private companies… I hate the mandate idea so much, I’m thinking the Democrats are overlooking something huge here.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
I try not to be someone who screams and vents. I really try.
But this enrages the hell out of me. The Baucus/Conrad maneuver is classic Democratic stupid.
For gods sake someone send these relics a copy of Joshua Micah Marshall’s bitch-slap theory of electoral politics.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
[...] That’s not how I would write the law if it were up to me, but it’s not as unreasonable as the proposal that was being attributed to Conrad and Max Baucus this morning. [...]
September 11th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
IF an Employer can not pay a decent wage to an American worker, then that employer should mow his own fucking lawn, take care of his children himself, and grow his own fucking tomatoes.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
aside from the inanity of complaining that illegal aliens are a danger because they use OUR healthcare dollars and then NOT allow them to buy insurance (even if subsidized, because once we get healthcare reform, hospitals and ERS will now be ALLOWED to turn away sick or dying illegal aliens thus saving our money?), shouldn’t such compromises at least require SOMEONE WHO WAS GOING TO VOTE AGAINST THE BILL TO NOW VOTE FOR IT?
September 11th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
I love how fucking stupid Will Allen is. It’s as if he thinks FDR is President and that an argument made 80 years ago is the sum total of the Social Security story. What a dipshit.
His framing though tells you everything you need to know about Will Allen’s concerns about Social Security. Forcing the poor to pay for the wealthy is how he characterizes it – a system no one would support and which obviously should be destroyed (oddly he has no problem with forcing people to buy insurance does exactly what he claims Social Security does). So next time this sociopath, who wants old people to curl up and die so he can save a few pennies, talks about “saving Social Security” remember his post her today.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
[...] [...]
September 11th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
[...] [...]
September 11th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
50 comments and no spew from Petey claiming that Conrad/Baucus are doing this at the White House’s direction. Interesting.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
50 comments and no spew from Petey claiming that Conrad/Baucus are doing this at the White House’s direction. Interesting.
Nah, Petey only pipes up when he can blame nefarious doings on Matt Yglesias.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Perhaps a more realistic danger would be people from first-world countries with cheaper/stingier health care systems coming over here to buy our health insurance when they get sick.
Except I don’t think there *are* any first-world countries with health care systems stingier than ours (in terms of actual care delivered). They’re just cheaper because they’re more efficient.
It’s the rest of the world that ought to be watching out for *our* health refugees with preexisting conditions, if they really care that much about it.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
[...] [...]
September 11th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
So, Joe Wilson was right.
And Baucus and Conrad moved to fix Obama’s lie.
No need to get wee-wee’d up, Matt.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
“That’s a mighty high price to ask U.S. citizens and legal residents to pay all for what amounts to spite.”
Hey, somebody’s gotta pay for electing that spic loving nigger.
September 11th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Isn’t Joe Wilson an hoot and a half? It truly is an amusing thing to behold. The extreme right wing is having a collective, massive nervous breakdown. They just can’t come to terms with the nasty little fact that a black guy is the most powerful human being on the planet. It really is kind of funny – to a point.
Here’s what’s happening, boys and girls: The so-called “party of Lincoln” has been forever exposed as ideologically bankrupt and they are in the process of implementing their “scorched earth policy”. In other words, if they have to go down (and down they are going) they’re absolutely determined to bring the rest of the country down with them. That is what is happening – COUNT ON IT.
If you thought that the loony right wing had lost all the marbles they could possibly lose, oh brother! As Al Jolson used to say, “You ain’t seen nothin’ yet”. Here’s the part that’s not so funny: There is violence down the road. Count on it.
Sound paranoid? Stay tuned.
http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
September 11th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Sound paranoid? Stay tuned.
Suggestion: Your post would be more compelling if it were in underlined, italic, bold. Plus if it were non-spam, and relevant to the thread.
September 11th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
“. . . we could implement citizenship checks before you buy ibuprofen at CVS or before you get on the highway” — let’s do it ! I like the idea of middle-aged or elderly white people having to present their photo IDs at immigrant-owned & operated markets and getting rejected because they no longer resemble their driver’s license photos.
“Hair color brown — yours is definitely white (or sparse)”!
“100 pounds — lady, maybe three husbands ago !”
or the South Asian physicians telling white folks that they can’t be treated without their birth certificates !
September 11th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
1. Those screaming about “illegals” use that term as coded language. What they really mean to say when screaming “illegals” is “brown-skinned poor person from a latitude south of the United States.”
Who are almost all illegal, related to illegals, decended from illegals, or supporters of illegals.
2. “Illegals” suffer from the same illnesses, ailments and injuries that “legals” do. “Illegals” are often the ones doing the work that “legals” have deemed to be beneath themselves because it is unpleasant, dirty, dangerous, painful or shameful.
So?
3. Because “illegals” function as a real part of our economy and social fabric, there is some incentive to provide them with health care.
No there isn’t.
As a sign off, I have begun to wonder if Republicans are beginning to use the current health care debate as a means of beginning to frame a coming immigration debate…
Yeah right. In my dreams maybe. The Republican party elites are every bit as pro Hispanic as the Democrats. The problem (for the GOP elites) is that the the Republican base HATES illegal immigrants and won’t let the GOP bigwigs Hispander in the way they were able to during Bush’s reign.
I have no doubt that most of the GOP senators would have loved to vote in favor of Sotomayor and would love to support Amnesty, but the base simply will not let them.
September 11th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Ok, maybe I’m fundamentally misunderstanding the way this is supposed to work, but I can’t imagine a scenario in which an illegal immigrant would actually get subsidized insurance.
As I understand it, the subsidies come in the form of a tax credit – that is to say, you pay full price on the insurance exchange upfront, and you get the difference deducted from your income taxes (or paid to you if you don’t owe taxes) by the government later on.
I assume that illegal immigrants don’t typically file income tax returns. If they don’t do that, they can’t get the subsidy, no? So if for some reason an illegal immigrant decides to buy into the public plan on the exchange (and I doubt that they would anyway), they’re going to pay full price. Hence, no government support. Am I missing something here?
September 12th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
[...] Matt Yglesias: This will have a direct cost to taxpayers since some verification mechanism will need to be put into place. It will also have an indirect cost to you and me and everyone we know—the vast majority of people, after all, aren’t undocumented immigrants but we’re all going to need to go through a citizenship check hassle before we buy health insurance. It will probably also make average premiums higher, since the exchanges will be left with a smaller risk pool and there’s no real reason to believe that the subset of undocumented immigrants who are capable of affording an unsubsidized insurance policy are below-average health risks. Last, of course, this will make the undocumented immigrant population sicker with negative public health consequences for their coworkers, friends, family, and the customers of the businesses they walk at. [...]
September 12th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
[...] Kent Conrad and Max Baucus publicly re-open the issue as though Wilson had made a legitimate claim? Baucus’ framework document already said, “No illegal immigrants will benefit from the health care tax credits.” That’s [...]
September 12th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
[...] Kent Conrad and Max Baucus publicly re-open the issue as though Wilson had made a legitimate claim? Baucus’ framework document already said, “No illegal immigrants will benefit from the health care tax credits.” That’s [...]
September 15th, 2009 at 2:31 am
[...] by Joshua Malbin on Sep.14, 2009, under Politics By now everyone has heard about Rep. Joe Wilson’s cri de coeur during Obama’s health care speech last week. He was furious that Obama would dare to deny that his health care plan might cover illegal immigrants. (The next day Sens. Conrad and Baucus announced plans to strengthen bans against illegal immigrant participation, thereby retroactively validating Wilson.) [...]