Matthew Yglesias » Anti-India Militants Still Going Strong

Sep 30th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

Anti-India Militants Still Going Strong

Lydia Polgreen and Souad Mekhennet have a great piece in the NYT looking at the continuing strength of Lashkar-e-Taiba, the group responsible for the Mumbai attacks. I think the main moral of the story is basically that we shouldn’t overplay the idea that militant organization’s success in Pakistan represents a lack of capacity to clamp down on them. When the Pakistani security services want to take action, as they have against the Pakistani Taliban recently, they’re pretty effective. When they don’t—and it seems they don’t in this case—then nothing happens.

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9 Responses to “Anti-India Militants Still Going Strong”

David Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Right. Just like with the Afghanistan Taliban. There they don’t want to either.
fostert Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
This story could have been written a year ago as a prediction and would be just as accurate. Whatever the ISI may claim, they will always support the LET.
Gmorbgmibgnikgnok Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
After the Mumbai attack, American officials commented that the attackers’ level of organization and training indicated that they had professional help — i.e., the Pakistani military.

Compare that to China. The Pakistani government has successfully curbed LeT activities in Xinjiang province, and has even cooperated with China on Uighur extradition.

Furthermore, LeT is an eastern-Pakistan organization, unlike the Taliban. They are aligned with the military and the military’s aims.
fostert Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
“Compare that to China”

Well, Pakistan wants to be nice to China because China and India have historically had conflicts. One thing you can always count on is that Pakistan will do anything as long as it pisses off India. Pakistan really hates India, and India feels very much the same way about Pakistan. And as Charles Bukowsky correctly noted: “Hatred, it’s the only thing that lasts.”
Gmorbgmibgnikgnok Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
fostert -

Yup, just saying that the Pakistani govt. has provable ownership of LeT, whereas with the Taliban they have to go stomp on some heads to get them to behave. LeT’s members are more ethnically similar to the govt., after all.
FedUpIndian Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Fostert:

Pakistan really hates India, and India feels very much the same way about Pakistan.

Most Indians like myself don’t hate Pakistan – we are just fed up with that dysfunctional state and with rabid Islam (the two are connected), and if Pakistan could be detached from the subcontinent and made into an island in the Pacific, we would be very happy to forget about it.

The problem that we face in India (and one that you are now facing in the West) is this: democracies want to be tolerant of the “other”, but how do you tolerate people who believe that Allah has commanded them to attack you and kill you because you are a kaffir?

Here’s an article from the British newspaper Guardian (May 9th) that describes how Pakistani kids are being educated (in government schools, not madrassas!):

..Mr Khan quoted historian Professor Mubarak Ali as saying that the Pakistani establishment taught their children right from the beginning that this state was built on the basis of religion – that’s why they don’t have tolerance for other religions and want to wipe out all of them.

This strategy lays the blueprint for a fascist state, the professor said, adding: The logical conclusion of this line of thinking is a very narrow definition of who a real Pakistani and real Muslim is. Once minorities are out of the picture, they turn on other sects…He said the policies of General Zia were continued by those who followed him: Nawaz Sharif, Benazir Bhutto and General Pervez Musharraf.

He quotes a most recent systemic survey on the topic conducted among a group of high-school students and teachers. Their report, he said, found disturbing themes in social sciences and history such as “Pakistan is for Muslims alone”, “the world is collectively scheming against Pakistan and Muslims and Islam” and “Muslims are urged to fight jihad against the infidels”.

*************

The same stuff is being taught in Saudi schools (Pakistan is basically run by the Wahabbis).

This is not a problem just for India – this poison is now spreading rapidly in the US and Europe.
Arun Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
+1 FedupIndian. Indians would be happy to be able to ignore Pakistan.

On the issue of Pakistani education:
http://www.sdpi.org/archive/nayyar_report.htm

“In May 2002, a group of academics were gathered by SDPI to examine the curricula and textbooks that are presently being used in public schools. The group investigated curriculum documents and textbooks in the disciplines of Social Studies/ Pakistan studies, Urdu English and Civics from class I to Class XII. It is in these four disciplines that students are exposed to the issues of religious and national identity, tolerance and social relationships that shape their worldview. Classes I to XII were chosen because the curricula and textbooks are all prepared for them by the same institutions, namely the Curriculum Wing of the Government of Pakistan, and the Provincial Textbook Boards. These institutions are primarily responsible for the character and content of the educational material that determines what happens in classrooms across the country.”

….

Four themes emerge most strongly as constituting the bulk of the curricula and textbooks of the three compulsory subjects. 1. that Pakistan is for Muslims alone;
2. that Islamic teachings, including a compulsory reading and memorization of Qur’an, are to be included in all the subjects, hence to be forcibly taught to all the students,
whatever their faith,;
3. that Ideology of Pakistan is to be internalized as faith, and that hate be created against Hindus and India; and
4. students are to be urged to take the path of Jehad and Shahadat.

—

My suggestion has been that the Indian economy has traditionally been seven times the size of the Pakistani economy. Put in years of rapid growth until a year’s increase in Indian GDP is equal to the Pakistani GDP, and from that point on, Pakistan will be of increasing irrelevance.
Umesh Patil Says:
October 1st, 2009 at 9:05 am
So the real questions is why after 8 years of Afghan engagement, America does not see it ‘right’ to force Pakistan to close LET altogether and jail / kill those guys? In which ‘universe’ General McChrystal’s of this world see Afghanistan ‘calming down’ in Iraq style while LET and those folks remain loose? Whom are these American ’strategic thinkers’ fooling? Why Media in USA continues to ignore all these sponsorship of Terrorism from Pakistan against India as just a fight between these 2 hopeless neighbors? What do American Establishment think India needs to do which it actually has not (except I guess ‘writing off Kashmir’ altogether to Pakistan as if that is going to bring Peace to S. Asia – what a baloney…)? After Mumbai attack, America and West wanted India to show restrain. It did that. But no use.

I think Indians need to ‘grow up’ this business of ‘State Dinners’ in While House. Bush did that to Dr. Singh but continued ‘get played and outsmarted’ by Musharaf. Obama White House does not seem to be any different.

No, no one is asking here America fighting ‘India’s wars’ here. But the core issue here is Terrorism in any form cultivated in Pakistan is in the end detrimental to USA (Zazi case in point) and it will never allow Afghanistan to stabilize. No matter how many of the ‘brilliant and glorious’ warriors are sent to the Afghan front, as long as basically Pakistan Terrorism in all forms is not curtailed; nothing is going to work.

What can America do? Stop the bloody ‘fat check’ to ISI and those ‘weapons toys’ to Army? Then again promise those and actually give those as needed and as linked to the performance. Pour whatever resources are allocated to stop ‘bad education’ and to sponsor ‘good education’. Force Saudi to stop funding to Madrases which preach ‘hatred of other religions’. All that is needed for America’s security.

For too many times, Americans are more bothered about ‘any free lunch to India’ while completely ignoring what is in her best interest. If Americans are so paranoid of ’spill over of accruing advantages’ to India; demand many more concessions from India. There are number of other ways India can be made to reciprocate on these benefits.

But the goal must be to deal with ‘poison in Pakistan’ head on. Indeed VP Biden is on to something this time.
And on and On Says:
October 1st, 2009 at 9:57 am
The Pakistani Establishment’s view on India are not going to change in the near-term. The US needs to make reality-based Afghan policy.

Pakistan wants “strategic depth” in Afghanistan in case of war with India. It will destabilize any Afghan government that would not provide this.

The US does not care is Afghanistan is used for “strategic depth” or not”. It wants to make sure there are no safe havens for terrorism.

So let’s do both. Given Pakistan a free hand to set up a puppet government in Afghanistan in exchange for a “no safe havens” policy. An Americo-Pakistani Condominium in Afghanistan.

Matt Yglesias

Anti-India Militants Still Going Strong

9 Responses to “Anti-India Militants Still Going Strong”

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