Honesty and TV Booking
House Democrats have the congress considering a bill that involves around $540 billion in new taxes, along with several hundred billion in offsetting spending cuts, in order to pay for a substantial expansion of health insurance coverage in the United States. $540 billion is a lot of money. But it’s a lot less money than $800 billion or $1 trillion. And yet Steve Benen observes that Rep Mike Pence (R-IN), a member of the GOP leadership, keeps going on TV to repeat the fake larger number:
Either way, Pence probably shouldn’t be chairman of the House Republican Caucus, and he certainly shouldn’t be invited onto national television regularly to repeat bogus claims to the public.
It seems like this should be a no-brainer. Politicians engage in a volume of misrepresentation that is, at first, quite shocking. Then you realize it’s not shocking. Politicians wouldn’t lie of lying was likely to generate newspaper headlines like “Pence Lies About Health Insurance” or got bookers to say things like “sorry, Senator, you can’t come on our network anymore since you were so dishonest or ill-informed in your two previous segments.” But nobody does business that way so why not lie? It’s easier to campaign against $1 trillion in new taxes than $540 billion in new taxes.
27 Responses to “Honesty and TV Booking”
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August 2nd, 2009 at 8:55 am
The news isn’t for you, silly Matt! It’s to make advertisers and the people who run news organizations feel good about themselves.
August 2nd, 2009 at 9:26 am
JMG is right, you silly boy.
Next you’ll be wanting respected national newspapers to factcheck their syndicated columnists.
As if…
August 2nd, 2009 at 9:30 am
Is the proper response to just say that 10,000 of Congressman Pence’s constituents die due to lack of health insurance each year, while he sits on his yacht eating caviar and sipping champagne?
August 2nd, 2009 at 9:47 am
On the idea that cost estimates are unrealistically pessimistic, it seems to me that the sad reality of politics is that it would be irresponsible for opponents of any large-scale healthcare project to do anything other than present unrealistically pessimistic numbers. For better or for worse, that’s politics.
August 2nd, 2009 at 10:03 am
I think the public generally understands that politics is a form of strategic communication, and that politicians will lie when they think they’ll get away with it. And politicians and their spokespeople do in fact point this out about their opponents (when it’s in their best interests to do so). The problem from the perspective of an informed public, however, is that labelling someone a liar in politics is itself a political determination, not necessarily a moral one. So to the extent the media wishes to remain politically neutral or “objective”, it can’t just dismiss a politician by calling him a liar (except perhaps in extreme circumstances). But the media don’t really have to do this anyway – they just have to ask a politician the reasons for what he or she says. And unfortunately journalists just don’t do enough of that.
August 2nd, 2009 at 10:39 am
Another instance of our morally bankrupt media was the reviews of Palin’s convention speech. She lied with impunity and quoted Westbrook Pegler, yet such “luminaries” as Tom Brokaw, called her speech “magnificent.”
The MSM media has become an epic failure.
August 2nd, 2009 at 10:58 am
Sam M sleeps with farm animals.
It truly, deeply, saddens me to promulgate such an unrealistic representation of Mr. M, but, given my disagreement with him, it would be irresponsible of me to do anything else. Don’t blame the player, blame the game!
August 2nd, 2009 at 11:09 am
I don’t know anything about Sam M’s sleeping habits, nor do I want to know, but it’s apparent that his intellectual integrity is lacking.
I guess that when you support a political party that can’t win a battle of ideas, you opt for lying because you recognize that Republicans are morally bankrupt anyway, so what’s a few more lies.
Obama’s a terrorist. Check.
Obama’s a socialist. Check.
Obama wasn’t born in the US. Check.
The Republican base is a bunch of moronic suckers. Check.
August 2nd, 2009 at 11:14 am
You spelled “if” wrong.
August 2nd, 2009 at 11:44 am
Dang. I thought this was going to about MSNBC placing the corporate shill Richard Wolffe in Keith Olbermann’s slot as a so-called “host.”
I thought for sure our side was gonna finally examine ourselves through the same lens as we use to attack the other side.
Guess not.
August 2nd, 2009 at 11:58 am
It gives me no pleasure to say this, but the heavy burden of responsibility cannot be shirked:
Sam M is a goat-fucking holocaust denier.
I do so wish that I could argue with Sam M over the merits of our claims, but alas, continually flinging poo in the hope that something sticks is the only responsible course of action.
In fact, lying about Sam M proves that I’m not a jerk. It’s the only way to show that I’m willing to sacrifice my integrity for the greater good. I’m a noble victim of my own devotion to duty!
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I assume you will also agree then that those who continue to make the false claim that you’ll still be able to keep your health plan even after a government-run plan goes into existence should also be denied air time.
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:25 pm
@Michael Freeman
“I assume you will also agree then that those who continue to make the false claim that you’ll still be able to keep your health plan even after a government-run plan goes into existence should also be denied air time.”
You assume that sensible people would latch on to a completely baseless lie. Where there is proof debunking Pence’s lie, you can’t exactly prove that people would lose their health insurance because of a government option – primarily because the inside of your butt is hardly a reputable source. I’d assume that you love insurance companies, and have no problem with how they screw the average american without a complimentary reach around. I assume that you’re full of shit.
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:27 pm
@Mary
“Dang. I thought this was going to about MSNBC placing the corporate shill Richard Wolffe in Keith Olbermann’s slot as a so-called “host.””
That’s kind of a phony argument. I mean, who isn’t a shill nowadays?
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:41 pm
the false claim that you’ll still be able to keep your health plan even after a government-run plan goes into existence
The only thing that is claimed is that people won’t be forced to join the public option. No one claims that everyone who has insurance now will be able to get the same policy at the same price 5 years from now–mainly because the status quo can’t make that claim, either.
August 2nd, 2009 at 1:11 pm
This is the second time I’ve seen a right-winger respond to Matt’s observation that a conservative is lying by trying to come up with a comparable lie made by liberals, fail, and have to fall back on a statement by a liberal that isn’t a lie.
Damn, Democrats must be some seriously honest people!
August 2nd, 2009 at 1:15 pm
HC, that is the kind of classy response so characteristic of you liberals throughout this debate. A lie mixed with juvenile hostility.
August 2nd, 2009 at 1:16 pm
So, HC, are you suggesting, by saying ‘who isn’t a shill nowadays,’ that indeed, Olbermann and Maddow ARE shills? Brian Wiliams and Chris Matthews ARE shills?
I’ll be damned. And on Yglesias’s blog, too.
August 2nd, 2009 at 1:26 pm
You cannot blame Pence. Just look at his photo. Clearly you should expect nothing less from a slightly mentally disabled person who also happens to smoke a lot of weed.
August 2nd, 2009 at 2:54 pm
“Don’t sit on the fence, vote Palin and Pence!”
“It will be smooth sailin’ with Pence and Palin!”
Which one of these super-geniuses is going to get the top of the Republican ticket in 2012? I can’t wait to find out.
August 2nd, 2009 at 3:11 pm
I’m trying to figure out where the $540 billion number comes from – a link, please!
In clicking the various links, the only possible source I found is this: “In a summary of the bill, House Democrats said their proposal for a surcharge, or surtax, would raise $544 billion over 10 years — roughly half the cost of the bill — and affect “only 1.2 percent of all households in the United States.””
Now, maybe everything the House Democrats say is ipso facto true – I dunno. But just on the off chance that the House Democrats are wrong here, not Rep. Pence, I consulted the CBO.
The CBO says that the the “changes in revenue” from “other provisions” of HR3200 would raise $583 billion over the next ten years. So that’s more than $540 billion already. But wait – the “changes in revenue” from “other provisions” of the bill aren’t the only revenue raisers in the bill. I see $45 billion in “payments to exchanges by employers”. I see $29 billion in “payments by unemployed individuals”. And I see $163 billion in “‘Play or pay’ payments by employers”. Are those “taxes”? I don’t think it is completely unfair to characterize them that way – I think the IRS is supposed to collect at least 2 of those payments at tax time.
So, add it up: $583B + $45B + $29B + $163B = $820 billion.
Now, of course, under HR3200, we are STILL left with a deficit impact of $239 billion over 10 years. I don’t know how the Democrats propose to pay for that – maybe they plan to cut spending elsewhere. But on the off chance that the Democrats propose to play for the $239 billion in increased deficits over the next 10 years by raising taxes, that totals to $1.049 trillion in revenue increases over the next 10 years.
I know Matthew really enjoys calling people liars (although as he noted the other day, he clearly does not enjoy it when people call him a liar), but it appears to me that this claim is off base. At worst the dispute is over how to characterize some of the revenue raising provisions of the bill, and over what the $239 billion in deficit impact will mean for taxes in the future.
August 2nd, 2009 at 3:42 pm
“So, HC, are you suggesting, by saying ‘who isn’t a shill nowadays,’ that indeed, Olbermann and Maddow ARE shills?”
Everyone is shilling for something, I think people somehow feel being honest about it is criminal. Anyone on NBC is shilling for G.E.
August 2nd, 2009 at 3:45 pm
“HC, that is the kind of classy response so characteristic of you liberals throughout this debate. A lie mixed with juvenile hostility.”
Telling a bold faced lie isn’t exactly the epitome of classiness either, so save your mescaline induced lectures. I still noticed throughout all the outrage, you failed to back up your originally laughable point. Its to be expected from conservatives.
August 2nd, 2009 at 6:10 pm
I’m from Indianapolis, and I can definitely say that Pence is an ass of the first caliber who needs to find the head of his favorite (insert fav things here) in bed with him one morning. I’m looking forward to spitting in his eye at first opportunity.
And by the way, Mikey, you AND your friend, Greg Garrison of WIBC are assmunches.
August 2nd, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Pence is a simpleton
August 2nd, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Perhaps I do sleep with farm animals. If so, all I can say is, damn, this barnyard is getting crowded. Because the formulation for political honesty that I rely on above was actually penned by a fellow named, er, Matthew Yglesias. On October 27, 2008. Specifically, he wrote:
“On the idea that ridership estimates are unrealistically optimistic, it seems to me that the sad reality of politics is that it would be irresponsible for advocates of any large-scale infrastructure project to do anything other than present unrealistically optimistic measures. For better or for worse, that’s politics.”
So… offer shaded numbers to support progressive policies, you are a hero. Offers shaded numbers to support policies progressives don’t like… goat fucker.
Got it.
August 3rd, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Sam M gets the thread win and the shutdown. Nicely played.