Jul 4th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Are Hybrids Too Quiet
The times I’ve driven in a Prius, I’ve been totally impressed by the spooky silence of the hybrid engine. But apparently there’s some concern that hybrids are dangerously quiet and could strike people unawares. In Japan, it seems there’s going to be a panel to consider the issue of whether regulators should mandate a noise-making device be incorporated into the cars. Thinking about it, it’s definitely true that as a cyclist I wouldn’t be thrilled about the idea of lots of cars silently sneaking up past me from behind.
79 Responses to “Are Hybrids Too Quiet”
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July 4th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Don’t worry the Volt will constantly repeat Dixie (the General Lee horn version)as it rolls down the street.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Ugh. We need more noise pollution so that we know they’re there? I might accept that, if only there were an initiative to make leaf-blowers, lawn-mowers, and other noisy stuff quiet — after all, there’s no need for leaf-blowers to be noisier than intrinsically necessary, right? And if they intrinsically must be as noisy as they are, there are always rakes, or leaving your lawn slightly leaf-covered, right?
July 4th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
So my neighbor who takes her walk down the middle of the street and never gets out of the way when I want to pass her – does it turn out that she is not some kind of arrogant bitch but in fact unable to hear my car?
July 4th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
as a pedestrian I’m not thrilled about bicyclists silently sneaking up past me from behind.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
MY’s a cyclist?
He must no longer resemble an Ewok then.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
I’m with the silent cars = good, silent bikes = bad group.
Seriously, noise pollution is a major barrier to perfecting urbanism. Silent car engines is a good step. Silent breaks would be a good one. Abolishing aural car alarms (they don’t work, so why bother?) would also be good.
Fixing the car alarm – dunno, there’s got to be some way to do it.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Sounds like the mandate back in the 1930s to add an odor additive to commercial natural gas (normally has no odor) following gas fatal buildup/explosions.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
The real problem isn’t the quiet car, it’s the urban planning that doesn’t take pedestrians into account.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
They’re only silent when they’re going too slow to hurt anything.
July 4th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
As a cyclist (road) and a hybrid owner I find the opposite problem: both pedestrians and casual cyclists don’t hear you coming, and so continue to dawdle down the middle of the street. Road cyclists are generally riding faster, holding their line, and are eminently predictable. But casual cyclists and pedestrians (generally with either a phone or ipod in their ears) are slow, totally unpredictable, and aren’t paying attention to what’s going on around them. I won’t honk, it’s rude, but I have leaned out my window and said “hey” thus startling the guy doing lazy esses on his beach cruiser as he talked on his cellphone, all without a helmet, of course.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Vehicles that make more noise than necessary really bother me. I hate Harleys and their drivers – if you like that sound so much put it on your ipod.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
You mean like the Smart-Brabus electric Car’s Star Trek Warp Drive noise emulator?
http://reviews.cnet.com/car-tech-blog/?keyword=Smart
Ok, I wouldn’t mind Japan sounding like that.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
We deaf people have managed to get around without hearing a noisy car much less a hybrid.
You’ll live.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
Man, I remember covering noise pollution in elementary school. We really need to see if there’s some alternative method of teaching pedestrians/cyclists/drivers how to be aware of hybrids.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
I get the chance to stand right next to my girlfriend’s Prius as she moves it into her tiny garage (too small for the passenger to be able to open the door). Silent? No, even at very very slow speed there is still the sound of the tires on the ground, the creaking sounds of brakes and suspension, some faint hum from the motors. That’s at slower-than-walking speed. Do we really need a noisemaker so people don’t walk into a not-quite-stopped car? On the road, I get passed all the time on a theoretically 25 mile-per-hour (mostly people speed, of course) road, and the Priuses aren’t noticeab1ly quieter than any other not-obnoxiously-loud car, the wind and tire noise are the dominant noises even at 25 unless you have an engine problem or a deliberately loud exhaust system.
I really think Prius-vs-cyclist/pedestrian issues are like cyclist-vs-pedestrian/really-slow-cyclist issues: People who are paying attention are paying attention, and the people who are not paying attention…are not paying attention, and more noise won’t somehow make them pay attention. Like how dinging a little bell on a bicycle is useless. People who are paying attention don’t need to be dinged at. People who are not paying attention…are not paying attention, and you can ding all you want, won’t help even though the bell is pretty loud and has a pretty clear meaning.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Actually, the National Federation of the Blind has been talking about this for quite a while. Apparently it’s a real problem for folks who are hard of sight and live in cities.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Except for small children, who are the most likely to not see the silent car coming for a variety of reasons.
I’m all for getting rid of noise pollution but creating a low buzzing sound when in full electric mode so that they were audible for 20-30 feet away isn’t the end of the world and might save a few kids/pets.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
The solution has already been constructed. Bubb Rubb’s whistle tips!.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSOSJ68xOBA
July 4th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Feh. I dismissed this when I first read of it, back when the Prius began to sell well. I figured it was anti-hybrid propaganda from competitors. I still think it is.
As far as I’ve seen, there’s no evidence that the “quiet” car models are any more likely to harm pedestrians or cyclists than the “noisy” car models. At this point, I don’t think it’s anything but speculation.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Too lazy too google this, but blind people have complained about this, since hybrids make no noise while stopped at crosswalks.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
To lazy also to follow Matt’s link, it seems.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
The LA Times had a story (March 29, 2008) on the threat to blind people:
Blind pedestrians may not hear hybrid cars
This is apparently a big safety issue for people with vision problems.
The answer is something that emits noise while the car is on electric power, as was touched on in another comment here.
I’d say it’s the least we can do for the blind and others who might actually get hurt by this real hazard.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Easy solution. Sub woofer. Gangsta rap. Problem solved.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
I test drove an electric truck. It was extremely quiet. A noise maker may be necessary even for the driver but mainly for some level of safety.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
This is a Japanese thing. The Japanese live in these paper thin houses and apartments that are completely permeable to the surrounding environment. So near as I can tell, they like having politicians drive around in sound trucks shouting over a megaphone, “This is politician Tanaka! I humbly request your support! Thank you so much! This is politician Tanaka!…” for hours and hours on end. I have no idea why this shit is not only legal in Japan, but a mandatory part of political culture, but I can only take it that it means the Japanese like having things outside their homes permeate them as the summer heat and winter chill do. Which means that having quiet hybrid cars would deny them of a vital connection to the street. Or some crap like that.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
I remember an article back in the 90s about the GM Impact (production name EV1), and how they were worried that the name would become literal because it was so quiet — in fact, there had already been a pedestrian minorly injured on the GM campus, and several close calls.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
I say, baloney. If there’s a problem, it’s that hybrids are quieter than internal combustion cars around them. The idea that you can fix a noise-related problem by adding more noise sounds like poor engineering to me. Better to give the hearing impaired motion sensors attached to headsets. Or something.
But I bet they put whistles on hybrids anyway. Part of the new suckiness.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Happened to me once while I was walking my dog. Wasn’t paying 100% attention, stepped off the curb, a Prius was making a right turn in front of me after stopping at a stop sign, didn’t hear anything. Close call. The driver was paying more attention than I was. I try to be a little more alert at corners now.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
As someone who lives in Japan, I wish a panel would discuss the preponderance of cars and trucks with bullhorns on top constantly driving through neighborhoods blaring advertisements, political messages, or fascist diatribes.
I find it a little hard to believe anyone here is seriously worried about cars being too quiet.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
The problem is the transition. As a bicycle commuter in Portland (because name dropping the great Republic of Cascadian Freedom gets me instant street cred), the problem isn’t that Prius’s make no close to no sound in a neighborhood situation – the problem is that they make so little sound compared to other cars. Whether it’s a good thing or not, I definitely depend on my hearing to know when I need to let a car pass, and prius’s have definitely snuck up on me before. Obviously, no fatal results – if anything, I worry less about a prius hitting me than doing something stupid because I wasn’t expecting a car to be behind me and suddenly finding that one is.
And it’s only a worry because, in general, I don’t have prius’s coming up behind me very often. Cyclists and pedestrians will get used to the lack of noise, but while hybrid/quiet cars are still uncommon, there are going to be some problems.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
How do you think a pedestrian feels when some clown on a bicycle silently sneaks up on them?
July 4th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
I agree with James it is an expectations problem – when electric cars make up over half the of whats on the road, this will be a non-problem. Part of the reason for this is that softer noises will no longer be drowned out by the decibels of diesel trucks and Harleys.
As for people with low/no vision, what about a bluetooth vibrator that comes on when there is an electric vehicle in proximity. A device embedded in their canes could vibrate to let the blind person know that a car is near.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Cyclists are some of the most unsafe users of the road I have ever seen. Many run red lights, many jut onto the sidewalk to avoid a light, many simply do not act as if cars are present. A rear view mirror, use of signals (whether you hear a car or not and with a check to the rear) and being predictable will be an improvement.
Perhaps the silent car will teach many cyclists to better respect the rules of the road and improve the use of the road by both vehicles. Of course, I advocate bike lanes to mitigate the problem as well.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Here in Boulder, we’re testing out some new hybrid buses. They are remarkably quiet for a bus. And they have kick-ass acceleration. The only problem is that they are bigger, so they run them when the kids are getting out of school. So it’s standing room only and really loud. They’re good kids, but they are kids.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Bicycles can and should have a bell on them to politely warn pedestrians you are passing. Cars could have a similar device. A soft pedestrians horn would be useful even for non hybrids. This sort of thing could be part of a broader change to more pedestrian friendly driving habits.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Mudge maybe you are unaware of the fact that bicycles actually have different rules than cars. For instance bicycles are allowed to do rolling stops while cars are not. I would love to see statistics on this but I would be my life that the vast majority of bicycle road accidents are entirely the fault of the person moving in the heavier vehicle. Their is much that cyclists can do to be safe. Signals are probably less important than wearing helmets and reflective vests. I know people think they look dorky but they should stop thinking that. People seem to go to great lengths to prove that they aren’t intelligent and utilitarian.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Steam cars can be pretty quiet as well.
Even internal combustion engine vehicles can be difficult to hear approaching on a windy day when riding a bike. The best bet is to stay to the right and hope drivers are paying attention.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Just clip a playing card to the wheel like we used to do with our bikes….
July 4th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
I just bought a bluetooth vibrator for my wife. I can man it from across the bedroom. Frees up more time for commenting on Matt Yglesias’ blog.
All kidding aside, why not get into the new clean diesel cars?
July 4th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Re: would be my life that the vast majority of bicycle road accidents are entirely the fault of the person moving in the heavier vehicle.
I think you would be betting wrong. I bike myself and I am willing to cut cyclists a lot of slack, but I have seen cyclists doing incredibly stupid things. No. 1 on my bad list is riding against traffic: people pulling into the street from druevways and side streets will not see you since they are accustomed to looking to their left for oncoming vehicles.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
“Man, I remember covering noise pollution in elementary school. We really need to see if there’s some alternative method of teaching pedestrians/cyclists/drivers how to be aware of hybrids.”
When I was in elementary school we were taught to look both ways before crossing the street. It’s always worked for me.
“…blind people have complained about this, since hybrids make no noise while stopped at crosswalks.”
Sounds to me like the real problem is blind people hitting hybrids with their canes. When will we stop blaming the victim?
July 4th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
“For instance bicycles are allowed to do rolling stops while cars are not.”
What state do you live in? I’ve live in Pennsylvania, New York, Maryland, California, Texas, and Colorado. And that hasn’t been the rule in any of those states. I had to sit through the “Just Like A Car” video several times in Pennsylvania. Granted, enforcement is much different for bicycles, and for good reason. If I get in an accident with a car, it’s pretty damn clear who’s going to win. It ain’t me, babe. And I have the X-rays to prove it. I’m so glad I’m donating my body for medical research. My body has lots of stories to tell.
July 4th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
While riding our bikes on Katy trail in MO my wife and I came up on a crossing for a winery driveway. I slowed, looked to the highway to the left, then looked up the driveway to the right – and was stunned to see a Prius racing done the hill. Slammed on the breaks – don’t know if the Prius saw me – never slowed down. Not a “close call” – but the surprise was how near it was and I never heard it. I rely on my eyes and my ears. When the car is running without the combustion engine on a little whistle would not bother me.
To poster above one state (I think either ID or OR) allows rolling stops for bikes as long as there are no vehicles in the intersection. Idea is it is a pain in the ass for a cyclist to restart there momemtum. Makes sense in a residential neighborhood with a stop sign on every block.
July 4th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Don’t know where you live Craig, but as far as I know, everywhere I have lived, bikes need to observe all rules of the road. In addition, they do not have riding licenses, nor insurance, nor plates, nor are they arrested for traffic violations. The car always wins the encounter to be sure, but many bicyclists have no idea they are doing, or ignore the rules if they know them. If I, in a car with a radio, am reponsible for avoiding the silent Priuses of the world, bicyclists should learn to avoid them as well and it should be their responsibility to make themselves safe. Otherwise, license them, insure them and fight it out in court.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
There was a pretty decent joke about this aspect of the Prius on Weeds. A drug dealer outfits his entire crew with hybrids because the silence makes it easier to stealth in for drive by shootings.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Mudge, there are some jurisdictions where a stop sign is a yield to cyclists and a red light a stop sign … but you’re right, its not very common, and certainly no “general rule”. In Ohio, the default law is precisely as you said … a bike is a vehicle, and must obey all the laws of the road when ridden on the road … including, importantly, not passing on the right, which is a bad habit lots of kids in their twenties have, but which all too often ends up in a bike getting a right hook from a turning car.
As far as quiet cars, they make these things called “rear view mirrors”. Handy things.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
“nor are they arrested for traffic violations”
That’s true mostly. But Boulder is tough on Biking While Drunk. If you’re drunk, you can’t even walk a bike. Do it, and you’ll do time. You get charged with the same DUI a car driver would get. And they do take your driver’s license away. It’s no joke. They’ll let you slide on other offenses, but not that one.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
I don’t like the idea of adding noise. I had heard this was about to happen a year ago, but apparently it was a false alarm. The noise problem I have with my Prius, is other vehicles. Like when you lock it by pressing the button, you have to listen for a beep to know if it did it -and if a truck is driving past, you won’t hear it.
The bike problem I have (and I’ve heard some complaints from motorcycle riders as well), is that many traffic lights won’t turn green unless a vehicle heavy enough to be detected by the pressure sensor comes by. So you end up in the position of having to illegally go through red lights, which you know won’t turn green until hades freezes over.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
I’d bet the added hybrid noise is not going to be anything like a whistle noise, more like baseball cards in the spokes of a bicycle. And it’s a good idea, full stop. I’m a pedestrian in the city and there are a zillion noises that would be considered noise pollution before the artificial low hum of a hybrid. People used to complain that the noise of dirigibles over Wrigley Field was noise pollution. Some people should get a life.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
Hey, a hybrid post after the Oil Price Madness post. What is up with that? Are we finally connecting some dots?
Is Matt making tiny little baby steps? Because that is what the hybrid represent -baby steps at a time when we need to make big strides.
It’s like when the doctor informs you that if you don’t immediately switch from whole milk to skim milk you will die. And you say fuck it, I’ll meet Doc halfway. I’ll drink two percent, and hope for the best.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:21 am
Hybrid cars all have conventional piston engines at this time. I bring this up because the term “hybrid engine” is ambiguous, at best. Prius’s run without the gasoline piston engine often at low speeds. That is full electric mode and then it runs on electric motors of course which are very quiet. Prius may well have the quitest gasoline piston engine of any car in the world. I don’t know. However a Prius does not have a hybrid engine.
Sorry to state the obvious.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:55 am
they will be silent driving, phone-talking, and texting at the same time – nice!
July 5th, 2009 at 2:04 am
In the Showtime show “weeds,” the drug dealer U-turn said he drove a hybrid because it was quiet and good for sneaking up on people. Something to think about.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:11 am
Sarah Palin.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:22 am
Too fucking quiet. They don’t have to sound like Harleys, but at idle, the average modern car doesn’t roar.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:36 am
The problem isn’t the Prius but the drivers. While the model’s sales growth has certainly diminished the percentage of assholes the Prius started with a 1:4 asshole rating. Not the 2:1 of the Hummer but in the vicinity of the 3 Series.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:36 am
This really is an issue (or so I think as a runner). We don’t need regular-car-loud. But silent is bad.
That said, most of the time Priuses don’t catch me unawares.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:54 am
They are too quiet, but it’s a business opportunity: ring tones for hybrids. You like the throaty growl of a Ferrari? The whine of a Mustang? The air-cooled sound of a VW bug? No problem: click, download, and adjust your volume.
We could even bring back the soon to be extinct sound of a Pontiac GT with a bad muffler. Which was most of them.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:03 am
“I had to sit through the “Just Like A Car” video several times in Pennsylvania. Granted, enforcement is much different for bicycles, and for good reason. If I get in an accident with a car, it’s pretty damn clear who’s going to win. It ain’t me, babe.”
I have a little perspective, because I had an accident with a car, in PA, and I lost.
On the road, it was OK, I was a little dazed, but otherwise, monetary cost under 300 dollars: torn sleeve of a very nice jacket (it was cold), co-payment in emergency room (just in case) and painkiller for a week. Bike with minuscule scratches. The car had 2000 dollars worth of body work. My insurance company “lost” and had to pay for it.
The thing is, I did not signal a turn, but I also did not remember when did I enter the main lane (as I said, hitting the pavement made me dazed) “claim the road” style, but I could not swerve in front of the van as police claimed — I would be hit very, very badly. It was on a downhill curve, and I was in the middle of car lane, just before the left turn. Basically, I was passed on a curve in no passing zone. But no-passing does not really mean no-passing of bicycles in car lane — or means it?
So, “no passing zone”, “yield” etc. should be taken advantage of with extreme care. When you pass “yield” sign for the other lane in a car, you just trust the other drivers to yield (well, not 18-wheelers), but on a bike, you want to look carefully and have eye contact before continuing — or not.
“Rolling stop” allowed? Well, if there is no police and no cars contesting the intersection, by all means. Police behind you — they cannot check your break lights, can they? Police on the intersection? I would advise complete stop.
In many cases, you must do illegal stuff on bicycle because of idiotic arrangements. On some intersections, it is very hard to make left turn, unless you got to the light first and can “claim the road” (some cars are going straight, some turn left), but it is very easy to follow left shoulder and wait for a gap in traffic, then cross to the right shoulder. On another, with light traffic, you would wait forever for the left turn signal — it is magnet activated.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to have turning lights on bicycles.
Concerning silent Priuses: I guess some low-noise signals could be good, as someone suggested, a speaker that could emit a pre-recorded message from a menu. A throaty female voice “car is approaching”, male yell “look around, you f…er”, “Freeze!”, or just recorded sound of several cars in traffic.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:30 am
Interestingly enough, the issue of being too quiet was one of the faults charged to the Stanley Steamer. The Steamers were advanced autos for their time, fuel efficient and extremely fast. But their engines, when running at relatively slow speeds, were eerily quiet. Back in that day and age, people wanted to know when an auto was creeping up on them. And of course there was the whole “Good God, the boiler’s going to explode!!” thing, but at least they were fairly pollution free. And you could mount a locomotive whistle on your car, which, you have to admit, would be a really cool thing to have.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Too quiet; a perfect reason for Senator Inhofe to filibuster energy efficiency. Windmills are quiet too; solar panels are too quiet.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Bikers and pedestrians (I’m in this group) need to be responsible! You can’t assume it’s safe to be in the road just because you can’t hear something. Bikes are quiet, and they can hit blind pedestrians as well. Prius drivers should be aware of pedestrians as well. Why do we always think some new regulation will help here, and why can’t people just educate themselves about the basic rules of the road.
Maybe I’m on a responsibility kick after Palin’s irresponsible whining about others and resignation from her job.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Yes! The engine room of the Enterprise made more noise.
On two occasions I have witnessed seniors nearly run over in parking lots by hybrids. They couldn’t hear the car starting or pulling out so it wasn’t until they heard the tires that they realized they were walking straight into the driver’s blindspot.
How hard would it be to give these things a cool Sci-Fi sound? People could customize them!
July 5th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
“Too fucking quiet. They don’t have to sound like Harleys, but at idle, the average modern car doesn’t roar.”
You obviously don’t live in a city. I’m three floors up, on a residential street, in a moderately popular neighborhood in Chicago, and I can’t hear my TV on a Sunday night.
Cars are fucking loud, pedestrians need to pay attention when entering an intersection (they are, after all, you know, WALKING), and urban bicyclists are usually the biggest assholes on the road.
Quiet cars are not a problem. Overly entitled shitheads on bikes (see, as Exhibit A, this post) are far, far worse.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
As long as we’re airing pet peeves, mine is bicyclists who are going faster than me, and feel a need to shout, “ON YOUR LEFT” when they’re two feet behind me. Scares the shit out of me. I’m thinking about having a “You don’t have to shout, asshole” T-shirt printed up. In the meantime, they should either get a bell, or just assume I can hear them and be careful when passing, like I do.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Here’s an idea: The electronically-produced sound emitted by a Prius while running on batteries would be altered/adjusted by sensors monitoring the surrounding ambient noise. The louder the “background noise”, the louder the sound (Jetson’s mobile?, Model T?). This would top out at a decibel limit so as to not add to noise pollution. This does *not* require million$ of research, and can be constructed with parts found at a Radio Shack.
I bring this up because in the college town where I live, the neighborhoods are filled with Prius owners. As a cyclist riding to work, I give every Prius parked on the roadside extra room (provided traffic will even allow it) because they give no audible warning before pulling out. It seems like the Prius drivers have been used to cyclists, pedestrians, joggers, etc. hearing them in the other cars they’ve owned. A *totally* silent car being driven obliviously and/or dangerously will *always* be more dangerous to cyclists, pedestrians, joggers, etc.
Keep in mind, the tires mounted on a production Prius are narrow, hard, and designed to extract maximum fuel milage. They are *not* designed for emergency stopping or sudden maneuvers. When the Prius driver realizes you can’t hear them coming and they slam on the brakes, it may already be too late…
I have total sympathy for blind pedestrians dealing with silent motor vehicles. A close relative with partial macular degeneration was startled badly by a woman driving a Prius. She proceeded to throw a fit when rightfully berated. The responsibility for the safety of pedestrians should be on the shoulders of the vehicle owners/operators, *not* the pedestrians/cyclists they may injure or kill.
I remember a drivers ed teacher who lambasted us whenever someone in class said something thoughtless or dumb regarding vehicle operation: A drivers license is a PRIVILEGE, not a God-given right.
I’ll get off my soapbox now.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
Wow, all the anti-bicycle animosity!
I rode my bike for 20 years in New York City. You know why bikes come off as assholes? Because car drivers almost kill us 5 times a day! From passing me so close the rear view mirror hitting my handlebars and almost making me crash to looking me straight in the eye and then pulling right out in front of me so that I have to swerve into oncoming traffic in the next lane, I never passed a day that I wasn’t almost killed by car drivers.
I can hear a car coming more than a block away. I hear the Prius’ coming at about 20 feet – as long as they are going faster than 20 MPH… Car tires make noise no matter how it’s motivated, the faster it’s moving, the louder the sound. Nothing irritates me more than a car turning a corner a block behind me, roaring up the road, then beeping their horn right when they are on top of me to make sure I know they are coming. As if I had no clue, I heard them 1/4 mile away!
Riding a bicycle is hard work, too. I am not about to stop at a stop sign or a red light when no one is coming. The key to bicycling is to maintain a constant speed.
And pedestrians! They are not as bad as cars, but they are pretty oblivious. Look I never, ever ride on the sidewalk, no bicycle should ever be on the sidewalk. I’ll make you guys a deal, I’ll stay off the sidewalk, you stay off the road. Because the car behind me is trying to kill me, I need the whole road, right to the curb to get away from the murderous car driver.
I had a bell on my bike, not just a tiny little tinkle bell, I had a PowerBell! It was a little wheel that attached to the front fork and had a bell in the shaft. A cable ran up to a trigger on the handlebars. When I pulled the trigger, the cable would move the bell’s wheel to ride against the bike’s wheel. It would ring as long as I held it down! Jaywalking pedestrians would dive out of my way, while I cackled an evil laugh!
July 6th, 2009 at 2:22 am
To clarify, I’m a bicyclist who feels animosity toward other bicyclists who are assholes.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:01 am
Possible engine sounds to add on to your electric car:
Lamborghini Countach
Ferrari Enzo
Rolls-Royce Merlin aero engine
Horse and cart
Coconut shells
Troika sleigh
July 6th, 2009 at 11:22 am
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!
The #1 complaint in cities is noise. Cars are a huge part of that–a busy road is anywhere from 75-95 decibels, and intermittently more if there’s honking.
Ever tried talking on a busy street? And then turned a corner onto a quiet street, and realized wow, you were SHOUTING just to make casual conversation with a person who was three feet away from you? It’s horrible, horrible, horrible. The steady drone of traffic doesn’t just generate its own noise, it generates MORE noise as things need to be heard over it. The “beep, beep, beep” truck backup noise is much louder than it needs to be because it needs to be heard over the noise of its own engine and other engines in the area. As are car horns.
There’s definite pyschological effects to this level of noise exposure. There’s documented physical health effects from sustained exposure to noise in this range. There’s a reason that people are tortured with loud noise (not to suggest this is at all equivalent to that, but to say that we KNOW it’s bad for you because when we want to cause pain, this is one of the things we do).
The argument that “it’s part of city living, deal with it” is a stupid one. That was the argument people made when crime was high, but now it’s low. I’m sure 100 years ago, people were arguing that the clip-clop of horses’ hooves were needed so people knew to get out of the way of speeding horses. I mean, I’m sure if you explained to someone from the 1890’s that cars sound the same at every speed, they’d be like “that’s a terribly dangerous thing!” because, of course, horses’ pace sounds different when they’re going fast versus when they’re going slow. But that would be a stupid argument for adding a feature to cars that makes a faster clopping noise when they’re going fast and a slower clopping noise when they’re going slow. Like this is a STUPID argument for making quiet cars noisy.
It would just be an incredibly GOOD thing if cars were quieter. Cities, especially, would be a much nicer place to live, but so would suburbs. We would find a way to adjust to the safety issue, just like we did when we switched out cars for horses.
The same way we wonder how anyone could live an a city full of horse manure, our grandchildren will look back at us and wonder how anyone could live in a city full of noisy cars.
July 6th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
The idea of adding artificial noise pollution is a bad one. If we are to encourage the growth of livable cities, we need to do more than encourage walkable neighborhoods and sensible zoning, we need to actually address some of the reasons people find urban environments unpleasant– and noise pollution is one of these elements. We have a chance to achieve a small but meaningful increase in quality of life as a side-effect of a transition away from internal-combustion vehicles; we should not squander it simply because it’s what cyclists are presently used to.
Noise pollution is a bug, not a feature.
If we are forced to choose auto-ringtones, I will Rickroll you on the road.
July 6th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
‘You know why bikes come off as assholes? Because car drivers almost kill us 5 times a day!”
Well, that certainly explains why bicyclists don’t think traffic laws apply to them. Not.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Actually, I’m pretty intrigued by the idea of “cartones”. They wouldn’t have to be as loud as current vehicles, so would not add to overall noise pollution. As the percentage of silent hyrids on the road rose, the overall decibel level would still drop.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
@westcoast: I won’t honk, it’s rude
Naw, laying on the horn for no reason is rude. Giving a friendly beep to warn others of your presence is actually the reason you have a horn. I often give a brief, simple double-beep to motorists, cyclists, and pedestrians if I think we might end up colliding somehow.
2 beeps for safety!
July 6th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
In NYC, where you can barely hear a diesel truck sneaking up on you, yeah, this is a problem. I’ve been surprised more than once and seen the same with others as we’ve crossed streets and a Prius comes around a corner or pulls out of a parking spot. Like a ninja, those freakin’ things.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
I was hit by a conventional car going about 25 mph, and did not hear it. (Felt it, though.) That’s one reason I’m especially careful when driving my Prius around the nearby school for the deaf and blind: I assume that they don’t hear me. If they do, all the better.
Fortunately, this is not an issue that requires speculation. The car model is noted in accident records. It will be easy enough to determine whether hybrids are disproportionately involved in bike/car accidents and pedestrian/car accidents.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
“Thinking about it, it’s definitely true that as a cyclist I wouldn’t be thrilled about the idea of lots of cars silently sneaking up past me from behind.”
I do not drive, but isn’t this what “horns” were invented for?
July 6th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
When I was a child we used to put these cheap little plastic things on the spokes of our bikes so they made rattling noises.
Just mandate those be put onto the wheels. $5 solution.
July 7th, 2009 at 12:14 am
As a Prius owner, I would be glad to make the Prius a little noisier in the interest of public safety. But why are we only concerned with sound at the quiet end of the spectrum? Loud after market exhausts must make the average car as hard to hear as a Prius. When laws against loud after market exhausts are actually enforced, I will be glad to tie a bell on my Prius.