Health and Taxes
Most of the early public skirmishing over health care issues has centered around nebulous fears of a “government takeover” of the health care sector. My sense of the state of play in congress, however, is that the votes almost certainly exist for the kind of regulatory overhaul that will change the nature of our health care system for the better. The sticking point is that ensuring the availability of affordable health care involves a substantial up-front expenditure of funds. As Peter Orszag explains, health reform is the best chance to put costs on a sustainable path over the long term. But over the short term, it takes money. And there’s no clear congressional consensus over where to find the money.
Steve Benen observes that the latest CNN polling indicates a similar issue in public opinion. 63 percent say “they would favor an increase in the federal government’s influence over their own health-care plans in an attempt to lower costs and provide coverage to more Americans,” indicating that scare stories about bureaucracy aren’t a key stumbling block. But then they asked:
“Would you prefer a health care reform plan that raises taxes in order to provide health insurance to all Americans, or a plan that does not provide health insurance to all Americans but keeps taxes at current levels?”
The split was 47-47. That’s not deadly. Indeed, I think it suggests that politicians who want to do the right thing have plenty of wiggle room. But the problem is that even if you have a senator who’s willing to raise “taxes” in the face of 47-47 public opinion, you have an additional hurdle when the subject turns to any particular tax.
20 Responses to “Health and Taxes”
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May 30th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Just tax tall people.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
There is a discussion of the health care systems in various countries on the blog linked to below. The blogmaster is a PhD in physiology who just got his MD degree and is now an intern.
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/
May 30th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
The American people still have not absorbed the fact that their ObaFuhrer LIED about taxes to get elected.
Ask that 47% who want taxes raised just whose taxes should go up and they will all say “The Rich!”.
After all, ObaFuher was elected by promising a chicken in every pot, a green car in every garage, and tax cuts for all but The Rich. Dohhhh!
Oh and Matty, now that the White House has joined Fatty Limberger in criticizing Sotomayor’s racist rap does that make your ObaFuhrer a Klan sympathizer?
May 30th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
The Great Man himself admits we are out of money now, so healthcare is off the table for some time. See here:http://patterico.com/2009/05/23/obama-we-are-out-of-money-now/
But what’s life without a dream, huh?
May 30th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Re: The Great Man himself admits we are out of money now, so healthcare is off the table for some time.
Healthcare is very much on the table, so you can can your wishful thinking. While the details are unclear we are going to end up with some major reforms that will lead to a universal system (no, that doesn’t single payor or “socialized medicine”).
And while the government current budget may be a bit tight, the US as a whole is a very wealthy nation and the money is there to do this. The issue is how to raise it.
May 30th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
My God, you are a weird fuck, JT.
May 30th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
The Great Man himself admits we are out of money now, so healthcare is off the table for some time.
We can print as much money as we need to. You can never be “out” until other countries stop accepting it. If you don’t think Obama’s willing to go a bit further into debt to make the absolutely needed reforms for long-term fiscal solvency, you don’t know who you’re dealing with.
Ask that 47% who want taxes raised just whose taxes should go up and they will all say “The Rich!”.
I see absolutely no problem with further pumping up the top marginal rate, or making extra tax brackets at the very top, or boosting capital gains tax rates in order to pay for universal health care. And I’m sure Obama and that 47% doesn’t either. So…what exactly is your point? That this is a valid method of enacting it?
May 30th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Yikes, JT has hijacked thread just due to its amazing right-wing-parody awesomeness.
If it is parody, bravo.
If it is real…wow, you conservatives hate (half) non-white people. Seriously, would you ever consider calling the more-liberal ‘President’ Kerry that?
On point, what Adam said, except expect blowback from middle class folk like Charlie Gibson on ‘class warfare’.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
I would just like to thank SLC for the link he/she provided in comment #2
May 31st, 2009 at 12:06 am
wow. france rocks health care!
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2009/05/what_is_health_care_like_france.php#more
May 31st, 2009 at 12:43 am
Thanks for the links SLC and brendan.
Can someone explain to me why I hate the French? I know I hate them to the very core of my being but I can’t remember why.
I wish countries reacted to other countries’ developments the way NFL teams do. When an NFL team innovates and enjoys success all the other teams re-evaluate their own systems and then allocate their resources in an attempt to emulate the innovators. I mean, there is a reason it is called the copycat league.
Why can’t the United States do the same thing? When a nation-state copies another nation-state it is not as if they dunces who need to cheat on a test. They are just being smart. Right?
Off topic, sort of: Speaking of the NFL; when those of us miscreants are criticized -and rightly so- for thinking impure Socialist thoughts, why can’t we respond in manly fashion that we are die-hard fans of the purest form of Socialism the world has ever known, the National Football League.
May 31st, 2009 at 1:04 am
You know what? Fuck it, I’ll pay a bit more in taxes if it means I have the option of a readily available public plan. I already pay out a hefty sum to my insurer every other week, to say nothing of the deductible I have to deal with. If that same withholding translated into my increases in taxes, leaving me no worse off than I am now, but with a system that won’t deny me coverage for inane reasons, then I’m all for it.
May 31st, 2009 at 1:10 am
Just because brendan’s France link really touched a nerve -something about the goddamn French I can’t quite put my finger on- I would like to add,
If the United States is like 33rd in the World Health Standings, and France is number one, aren’t we required by international law to copy them?
If this was, in fact, the NFL, the United States would be relegated. That’s right. In order to deal with our ineptitude, the NFL would have to institute a new policy of relegation, just like the soccer leagues in Europe, and be forced to kick our ass out of the league. That is how pathetic our performance is on National Health Care.
I mean, the United States has gone 0-16 on Healthcare every year for the last three decades. A Socialist organization like the National Football League simply would not accept or promote such incompetence.
May 31st, 2009 at 1:26 am
I think lots of people are at the “fuck it, why not?” stage. (I saw Obama speak, and when he said that the government wasn’t going to take over healthcare, plenty of people said “hey, I’d be okay with that right now”.)
Thanks, private health insurance: you’ve created the conditions for your ultimate demise.
Can someone explain to me why I hate the French?
They have organised their society around sex, food and booze. That feels sort of unfair.
May 31st, 2009 at 3:41 am
@14 pseudonymous in nc: “They have organised their society around sex, food and booze. That feels sort of unfair.”
Holy shit. It is simple jealousy on part. Mon dieu!
Now I must hate them with the passion of a thousand suns.
May 31st, 2009 at 7:10 am
Ed @ 6
Compliment accepted, thanks.
Adam @ 7
Of course you and the 47% and your ObaFuhrer think increased taxes on the rich are a good idea.
Just one problem: you can tax them out of existence and there still won’t be enough money! What part of that escapes you?
No, your ObaFuhrer knows that the only way to finance his medical nightmare is to increase taxes on the middle classes and thus his trial balloon on taxing health benefits, etc.
All of this combined with institutionalized and expanded
rationing and denial of services. Even Matty, in his calmer moments, will admit this.
Bottom line is that ObaFuhrer is guaranteeing more expensive but reduced health care services to larger client population.
It is that reality which will sink his health care socialization, as well it should.
And isn’t it interesting that ObaFuhrer chose to first reward the money interests, interests who made ObaFuhrer the single largest recipient of Wall Street bribes in history, before financing universal health care? Now, as he himself points out, we are beyond broke. The bond markets have tanked. Only the US Treasury buying up its own auctions maintains the fantasy of solvency.
Simply put the rich got theirs thanks to ObaFuhrer and now we are fucked. But hey, that’s why they let the black guy win.
And thanks to globalization it will only get worse.
Manufacturing jobs are not coming back.
There is nothing the Chinese and Indians can’t and won’t do better and cheaper. Including pollute. Thank god they aren’t Mexico! Or Canada! Lucky us we can stock WalMart with college educated greeters. Our MickeyD server can come with an advanced degree!
Predictably enough the Lefties want expanded government as the employer of last resort. But take a look at California, there is our future. The shrinking middle classes will not go along with ObaFuhrer’s expansion of the welfare state. It ain’t gonna happen on their thinning dime.
Andruw @ 8
Spare me your tired tripe.
Any criticism of ObaFuhrer must be racist! We have heard that for YEARS now. Fuck it. Do we really need you and Joseph Gibbels working overtime to try and suppress all dissent?
I was even more contemptuous of the limp dick wind surfer.
And Bushit should be in the criminal dock. Along with every Congressman and Senator, including ObaFuhrer, who voted to pay for the war crimes of the last many years.
No Andruw, as you so nicely demonstrate, we have exactly the “leadership” we deserve.
We are fucked.
We’re broke and Mr. and Mrs. ObaFuhrer fly on our dime to NYC for a dinner and theater date? The goddamn chef’s we employ to serve them are not good enough cooks? There is no theater in DC?
May 31st, 2009 at 7:25 am
Dinner and theater on Broadway sounds like a lovely evening to me, JT. As long time American taxpayer I am happy to foot a minuscule portion of the bill for the ObaFuhrers. They need to get away on occasion.
As for Bushit ending up on the criminal dock, I think if it comes to that the all-forgiving ObaChrist will pardon him.
May 31st, 2009 at 11:17 am
Higher taxes to reduce aggregate helath care costs? Who would not take that offer? I fear, however, that the outcome of health reforn efforts will NOT reduce aggregate health care costs. Anyone willing to bet the other way?
June 2nd, 2009 at 6:46 am
Inheritance help UK these days is a must because you really need to safeguard your assets and wealth for those you love when the time comes when you leave this mortal world.
June 2nd, 2009 at 1:50 pm
[...] is the best chance to put costs on a sustainable path over the long term. But over the short term, it takes money. And there’s no clear congressional consensus over where to find the money.” But Americans [...]