Matt Yglesias

27 Responses to “The Cultural Contradictions of Capitalism”

1. John Says:
   April 24th, 2009 at 5:23 pm

   Aw shucks – I’m tearing up. Lived in that crazy place for 3 years and that ad really captured it. The beer’s OK too! (Though probably not the Light version – the Dutch don’t believe in blasphemy, but that’s what it is anyway)

2. fostert Says:
   April 24th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

   It’s a good thing they have great Indonesian food. Their own food sucks. They also have great Thai and Turkish food.

3. JM Says:
   April 24th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

   It’s a good thing they have great Indonesian food. Their own food sucks.

   I liked stamppot. And zaansemosterdsoep.

4. 24AheadDotCom Says:
   April 24th, 2009 at 5:29 pm

   I’m sure it’s like a beer commercial 24/7/365 and has no downsides whatsoever. I also think we’ve discovered the secret behind all the wonderful policies that MattY and CAP espouse.

5. JM Says:
   April 24th, 2009 at 5:33 pm

   I’m sure it’s like a beer commercial 24/7/365 …

   Should we explain the joke to dumbass, or is dumbass the next joke?

6. Bill Says:
   April 24th, 2009 at 5:38 pm

   Regular Amstel seems much better than the light to me. I’m not sure it’s available here in the States.

7. scythia Says:
   April 24th, 2009 at 5:49 pm

   Dutch beer is by far the worst thing about the Netherlands.

   Well, maybe the xenophobic right-wing politicians. But Amstel and Heineken are right there at #2.

8. ibc Says:
   April 24th, 2009 at 6:19 pm

   A city like this would never work for Real Americans, because we have made a conscious decision to sit in traffic for three hours a day in our Yukon XLs, eat every meal at Applebees, and drive our children from one structured event to another like foot-bound Chinese princesses. Besides, I look at those scruffy Dutch, and wonder how large the average TV is in that culture…

   Diff’rent Strokes!

9. John Says:
   April 24th, 2009 at 6:46 pm

   scythia – got to disagree – Dutch beer is OK (not as good as Belgian, but what is)

   And as for the xenophobic right-wing politicians – well, those are never great, but I still think Pim Fortuyn was more fun (the shirts! the spaniels!) and less nasty than most of the Belgian Vlaams Blok, or any hard-right US Republican you care to name. So the Dutch are doing OK even in that rather unsavoury competition.

   No, where I still remain to be convinced about the Dutch way is the criminal justice system. Still find it hard to believe that the right punishment for homicide is a couple of years years in a semi-hotel, and that 6 months loocked up at weekends is what you deserve for being a hardcore burglar. Not sure it even works – the petty crime rate is Amsterdam is pretty high, it always seemed.

   The Dutch accent is also not my favorite

10. Brahma Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    I’m sure I could get at least half a dozen better tasting examples of (American) pale lager together for a party on about half an hours notice without thinking about it too hard. And I’m not even a beer snob.

    I realize Matt’s post is a joke, but do progressives now understand why the Bill O’Reilly’s/Limbites/Hannitys of the world think that liberals are mushy-headed, cosmopolitan one-worlders who secretly hate America? I guess not yet.

11. xochi Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    And the player piano museum! One of the highlights of my trip was spending an hour and change in here, listening to piano rolls of the music Fats Waller, Scriabin, Stravinsky, etc. etc., while the man who runs the space talked about the different pianos in English, French, and German for us wide-eyed and eared tourists. If you’re ever in Amsterdam, check it out!

12. rufustfyrfly Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    As a resident of Queens, I challenge Amsterdam to an Indonesian Food duel.

13. Tyro Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    I realize Matt’s post is a joke, but do progressives now understand why the Bill O’Reilly’s/Limbites/Hannitys of the world think that liberals are mushy-headed, cosmopolitan one-worlders who secretly hate America?

    Because we get into nit-picking disputes about beer quality?

14. Bill Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    Oooooo, concern trolling. Retro.

15. Don Williams Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    The above beer commercial left out a few things. For example:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/8221739@N07/1805660029/

16. pete from baltimore Says:
    April 24th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    Mr. Yglesias

    I know this was meant as a light hearted post Mr. Yglesias.But if you are constantly going to use the term socialist and claim that America is becoming more socialist, or that socialism is becominng more popular.Could you at least define what you think socialism means.

    I think we all can agree that Glenn Beck has a warped view of what it means.But i think it means different things to different people.I woould like to know your definition Mr Yglesias.

    Again , i know that this was meant to be a light hearted post but i would hope you could clarify this.

    By the way , I am sure the Netherlands is a great country. But if all i knew about America ,was what i saw in it’s beer commercials. Then I would assume that the country was full of sexy women dancing around in bikinis.

    Then again, maybe that is why so many people are trying to enter America illegally ! It’s those damn beer commercials!!!!

17. pseudonymous in nc Says:
    April 25th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    Looked like they filmed some of that ad on Queen’s Day, which is much fun.

    Dutch beer is by far the worst thing about the Netherlands.

    The Belgians monopolise much of the brewing life of the flatlands. There’s Wieckse Witte from Maastricht as an acceptable alternative to Heineken or Amstel on the standard tap. And the Bavaria 33cl minibottles are really not bad summer-day drinking, when you consider they’re the equivalent of PBR or Busch.

    The Dutch accent is also not my favorite

    Oh, I dunno. The joke is that it’s phlegmy plattdeutsch, but I like it. And really, when you find yourself in conversations where the Dutch are seamlessly going from German to English, you can’t knock it.

18. tacitus Says:
    April 25th, 2009 at 1:00 am

    You make a good point, Pete from Baltimore, but I don’t know how you define something that’s really more of a point on a sliding scale from pure capitalism on one side to pure socialism on the other.

    No democratic nation is purely socialist (the government provides all), and no democratic nation is purely capitalist (the government provides nothing). The Scandinavian countries are probably the most socialist, but they have a healthy capitalist streak in them, and American is an outlier on the capitalist side, but still has social programs like social security, Medicaid, and Medicare, etc.

    If you consider the scale as running 100 yards from one end of a football field to the other, most of the democratic nations are clustered between the half-way line and the 35 yard line on the socialist side. I lived in Britain in the 1970s and it was definitely hovering around the 25 yard line or so at that point in time.

    The USA is probably feeling a little lonely as it has been drifting in the other direction and currently crossing the capitalist’s 40 yard line, and the most Obama’s reforms will do, even if he gets to do everything he wants, is to bring the US back into the huddle just on the other side of half-way. The Republicans seem to want to rush in the wrong direction, probably chasing after a ball that was thrown on the field by the Libertarians, or something .

    Of course, you could spend days debating where exactly the US and other nations are on this field, but the important thing to realize is that Obama isn’t engaged in some Hail Mary pass to leapfrog the rest of the industrialized world and score a touchdown in the socialist end zone. He knows he’s bogged down in a grueling running game, a war of attrition, where the prize is the next first down at the half-way line.

19. Dan Kervick Says:
    April 25th, 2009 at 1:03 am

    I don’t think the Republicans are really contributing much to the sea change. Certain elements of socialist thinking are becoming more popular because some of the things socialists have been saying for years about wealth, power and exploitation have become so blindingly obvious that they can’t fail to become conventional wisdom on the empirical merits.

    Oddly, the more popular some socialist-inflected thinking becomes, the more assured one is that we are never going to get socialism or anything close to it in America. The libertarian streak among Americas just seems too overwhelming. Americans seem to prefer idle moralizing to effective legislating, and far too many are still utterly shocked by suggestions that they might go beyond merely hissing and upbraiding bankers and such from the peanut gallery, and actually use their democratic power to create the society they seem to agree would be preferable.

    And the most modest forms of economic strategic planning and public investment still seem to induce paranoid Randian fantasies of gulags and collectivized enslavement in vast numbers of countrymen.

20. nbt Says:
    April 25th, 2009 at 1:45 am

    I agree with #15. This beer ad lacked persuasiveness, due to its paucity of hot women.

21. pete from baltimore Says:
    April 25th, 2009 at 2:15 am

    MR. TACITUS

    I defentily see your point , but i would slightly disagree with the sliding scale analogy.Most people would say that we are the least socialist country on earth. Yet we massively subsidise large parts of our economy.

    Conservatives tend to want more defence spending , and liberals less.But if you think about it , defence spending subsidises large parts of our economy.especially the aircraft industry.

    Also while i agree that britain used to be very socialist.I also think we spend far more on agriculture subsidies then they ever have.You would know more about the UK than i would , so if you say im wrong about that, then i will stand corrected.

    Also George Bush started a massive bailout of the US auto industry ,while the ” socialist” Swedes have refused to bail out theirs.

    I agree with your point that it is almost impossible to define socialism .That sort of the point i am trying to make.

    I also do not think that America is a socialist country.Nor do i think Obama wants it to be.

    I just think that too often conservatives use socialism as a word for everything that THEY think is bad.Such as regulations , red tape, social spending ,ect , ect.

    Liberals such as mr Yglesias on the other hand , tend to use it as a catch all phrase for all things that THEY consider good .

    As you said Mr. TACITUS britain was very socialist during the 1970 s . Yet i think social benifets were much higher in France or Sweden.

    I think this is why some Americans like socialism.They feel the higher the government benefits and the more mandatory vacation time , the more socialist a country is.

    On the other hand ,others , [such as yourself ,i think ]
    ,would define it as how many buisnesses are owned outright by the government.I would agree with you on that and say that ,by that definition , you are right about 1970s U.K. being very socialist.

    I am not saying that socialism is right or wrong.Just that Mr. Yglesias seems to be useing the term in a way that is as meaningless as the conservatives use of it is.

    Thank you for responding to my comment MR TACITUS . I think we are in genral agreement about the difficulties of defining socialism.You are just a lot better at making that point.I apoligise about any facts that i have gotten wrong. As i said , i am sure you know far more about the UK than i do.

    Best wishes to you.

22. Pip's Squeak Says:
    April 25th, 2009 at 2:29 am

    The thing to remember about the Dutch is that they are PR geniuses. They also lie when their mouths are open.

23. tacitus Says:
    April 25th, 2009 at 2:50 am

    Hey, Pete, I think you’re pretty much correct on your comments about Britain. It was very socialist economically (I had forgotten quite how much, until I looked back at how much of countries infrastructure the state owned!) back before Thatcher was PM, but one thing that conservatives in the USA always get wrong (deliberately probably) is that our democratic institutions were never in any danger, even at the height of economic socialist.

    I think that’s the most insidious lie that the right-wingers in the USA spread around about moving towards socialism—is that the country would become a totalitarian state.

    I agree that my analogy simplifies a very complex issue. Defense spending is one complication, as is corporate welfare (farm subsidies). I’m not sure that the US has been any worse than Europe when it comes to dishing out cash to the farmers though — the EC is famous for the amount of money funneled their way!

    It is funny how the debate is suddenly all about “socialism” as opposed to “liberalism”. Liberalism has obviously lost its power to scare the moderates and independents so the right-wingers are stepping up to socialism as the new scare word. I actually think it’s a good thing that Matt and other left-of-center commentators are happy to adopt it and debate it. As long as Obama continues to be popular, we’re beginning to see the sting drawn out of that term as well, which is why we’re seeing the word “fascism” appearing (which, of course, is suddenly a left-wing extremist position!)

    I think Dan is correct that the Libertarian streak in Americans is probably the limiting factor in how far left the country will go (I would settle for moving back to the center, since we’ve way too far to the right!) and I also think that religion has a role to play too. America is a very religious place compared to the rest of the western world, and it still inflames the culture wars and our politics to a degree not seen in other democracies.

    There are hints that we are slowly becoming a less religious nation with young people being 5 time more likely to be non-religious than their grandparents, but it will be a few more decades yet before there is a sea change (if it ever happens).

24. pete from baltimore Says:
    April 25th, 2009 at 3:47 am

    Mr. TACITUS

    I would defintily agree with your statement. I personally do not think socialism works very well.But if someone could make it work in the U.S. then i would change my mind. I do not think this will ever happen.

    However you are correct ,the right wing has tried to create this image of socialism as an encroaching evil that is threating our very freedoms .Some of this is due to misinterpiting Hayek’s “the road to serfdom”.But much of it is shear demogagory. It is deliberate. The republicans do not believe it themselves. They just think that the rest of us are stupid.

    While many liberals have simplified socialism down to how many benifits or vacations someone gets. Too many conservatives have boiled it down to how much taxes they have to pay.

    At the recent ” Tea Parties” you will have noticed many people complaining about higher taxes . But very few complaining about higher government spending[not suprising considering Bush's record].

    Everyone seeems to forget what taxes are for. They are for revenue.I do not want to punish the rich or anyone else. I would love it if none of us paid taxes.

    The simple truth is that the American government is broke.And that most government spending goes for middle class people like myself. I do not deny that there is waste, or that the rich recieve too much money from bailouts, but most is spent on the middle class.

    The fact is that to cut the budget in any meaningful way , the middle class will have to sacrifice.We will all soon have to pay more taxes AND see some of our favorite government programs cut.

    This is not because taxes are good .Or that the programs are bad. It is because we are headed off an economic cliff.

    This is not socialism , just economic reality. If you spend money, you have to make money . the government makes it’s money through taxation.

    Many would argue for smaller government [myself included]. But to use the straw man of socialism is silly.And to claim that MR. Obama is trying to take away our freedoms ,without any kind of proof,is playing with some very dangerous fire.

    Once again, I would say that we should not be idelogical purists either way.We should simply do what will work in this country.

    I am a free market conservative . But i refuse to believe that any form of government, or any form of taxation is “socialism” or “facism”.

    You may have noticed by the way, that the republican wave of homophobia surfaced after the berlin wall fell ,and communism disappeared as the republicans worst enemy. Now with more americans accepting homosexuals as normal people, the republicans need a new enemy.Abandoning the culture war, and waging class war instead, is actually a step up for the republicans.

    By the way MR TACITUS I agree that in general Europeans spend more on agiculture subsidies . I did make a point in saying that i thought BRITAIN spent much less.Ever since the Corn Laws were repealed the British seemed to have not subsidiesed their agroculture as much as the rest of Europe. as i said ,i could be wrong though .

    thank you for sharing your opinion MR. TACITUS

25. novakant Says:
    April 25th, 2009 at 6:16 am

    Oh, could you all please stop talking about “socialism”, it’s terribly imprecise. The GDR was socialist and that sucked, you can take my word for it. The word you’re looking for is “social democracy”.

26. Matt W Says:
    April 25th, 2009 at 7:12 am

    I’m sure I could get at least half a dozen better tasting examples of (American) pale lager together for a party on about half an hours notice without thinking about it too hard. And I’m not even a beer snob…. do progressives now understand why the Bill O’Reilly’s/Limbites/Hannitys of the world think that liberals are mushy-headed, cosmopolitan one-worlders who secretly hate America?

    Because Matt said “Amstel is great beer and much better than any American beer?” Oh wait, that’s not what he said at all.

27. Matthew Yglesias » Just a Friend Says:
    April 28th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    [...] the iTunes hip-hop charts despite being old. My hypothesis is that this once again illustrates the underestimated cultural power of mediocre Dutch beer. The upsurge in Markie enthusiasm, in other words, is probably due to the [...]