Tea Parties
I haven’t said a great deal about the burgeoning “tea party” “movement” because (a) it’s incredibly stupid, and (b) I knew some colleagues were working on some more in-depth efforts in this regard than I could possible stomach. But here’s Lee Fang showing the role of corporate lobbyists in organizing these “grassroots” outpourings of sentiment and here’s Victor Zapanta’s compilation of Fox News’ relentless efforts to hype the tea parties:
Part of the underlying absurdity of this, however, is that it’s just so transparently silly to be pouring so much time and energy into trying to make Barack Obama appear unpopular when he’s not unpopular. There’s such a thing as opinion polling and it can answer this sort of thing pretty conclusively:
People like Barack Obama. Not everyone! 30 percent or so of the people say they disapprove. And in a country of 300 million, that means it’s easy to get together a big meeting of people who really hate Obama. But it’s clearly a relatively modest minority of the population, comparable in size—and probably largely overlapping with—the group of people who approved of the job George W. Bush was doing all the way ’till the end. But even Doug Holtz-Eakin now concedes that the Bush tax cuts should expire.
66 Responses to “Tea Parties”
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April 10th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
What, no teabagging jokes?
Here, watch this
April 10th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Ironic that a lesbian would do a segment featuring tea bagging and Cox.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
A bunch of people protesting higher taxes is incredibly stupid? I’m glad the founders didn’t think so. What an incredible exhibition of arrogance by a supremely greedy liberal.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
it’s incredibly stupid
what more needs to be said?
April 10th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Of course, people are always going to complain about taxes, most of us just aren’t dumb asses enough to base our worldview on that, or ignore what really needs to get done.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
They’re in a death spiral. They’ve lost all the sane people, and the inmates are running the asylum, at Fox, NR, Congress, etc.
It’s going to be a bumpy ride. Some of them are going to be Going McVeigh, like that Glenn Beck fan in Pittsburgh.
shooter– allowing tax rates that became law a while back to return to the levels they were at back when the economy was strong (the Clinton era) != taxation without representation.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
1773: Taxation without representation -> Tea Party
2009: Taxation with representation -> foolish carping and fake victimhood.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
I have a better idea: on April 15, have the entire population of the District of Columbia descend upon and surround Capitol Hill, and make it clear they aren’t leaving until they get full representation in Congress.
Taxation without representation indeed.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
MattY is too class-y and too much of an intelllectual heavyweight to engage in “teabagging” jokes.
But, I have some bad news: I actually agree with MattY. No, really.
Of course, what I want them to do instead is probably something that MattY wouldn’t agree with me on.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
I don’t really care about the protests themselves.
But I am concerned that this added demand may raise the price of tea. Which seems unfair, because, do wingnuts even drink tea? Except for the country-club crowd, and a few Log Cabin Republicans, I think tea consumption skews left, and they have no business f*cking around with it.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
They might seem comical on youtube… but I fear some of these idiots will actually end up doing something really stupid. I hope the cops are keeping tabs on the more unhinged ones.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
I have some bad news: I actually agree with MattY
Ms. Wacko: Please be advised that nobody gives a shit.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Time for Obama to have the FBI infiltrate these terrorist groups and start sending them off to detention camps.
April 10th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Snowman at #7 pointed out one reason why latter-day Tea Parties are silly. The other reason is that the protests against higher taxes come on the heels of a massive tax cut.
If, say, Obama were actually planning to raise taxes on the people who were tea partying, then it would be, as shooter242 suggests, legitimate.
April 10th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
Hey Shooter, we just passed the biggest tax cut in history. Are these protests because it’s not big enough?
April 10th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
Do progressives realize how this is politcal gold for the progressive movement? Show up at one of these things and start videotapping, because you’re going to see and hear wacked out shit that will make last year’s Palin rallies look like poetry readings.
April 10th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
I confess I am deeply puzzled by people who go out to protest when their taxes have been cut. This has to be the case with the majority of teabaggers. So what do you think? Do they
a) not realize that their taxes have been cut?
b) really believe that one day soon they will be earning > 250K?
c) care passionately about the abstract concept that net revenues are increasing?
d) realize that it’s hooey, but feel compelled to find *some* vent for the hatred building up inside them?
or e) just really hate tea?
Honest question. I’m perplexed.
April 10th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Or, show up with a handlebar mustache, a vest with no shirt, a leather hat, and a sign that says “I’m here for the teabagging.”
Or, set up a booth where people can sign up for the “Anti-Redistribution Project,” which will collect money from people who got a tax cut (ie, who make less than a quarter mil per year) and send it to those earning more than $250,000 in take-home pay, in order to undo the horrible effects of the administration’s tax policy.
April 10th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
If, say, Obama were actually planning to raise taxes on the people who were tea partying, then it would be, as shooter242 suggests, legitimate.
April 10th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Yeah, I know one of the guys running this (& so does Matt), and it always seemed a little thin, and the buy-in a little underwhelming.
But that is one of the nice things about the VRWC – if you’re a clever and crafty liberal and you float an idea you had for a messaging campaign or organizing strategy, all you get is 100 corners of the blogosphere telling you to STFU and get on board with their/their patron’s program. If you’re a clever and crafty rightist and you float an idea like that, there are institutions that exist for the sole purpose of hearing you out and – if it’s halfway decent – giving you the training, connections, and resources to carry it out.
April 10th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Oh ye of too much faith.
That massive tax cut, or actually tax credit should have kicked in by now. You know the $13.00 a week that gets phased out above $75,000. Whoop-de-doo. Largest tax cut in history? Not even close.
As for the Clinton tax hikes, do you think it’s at all possible it’s partially responsible for losing the House Elections in 1994? On the plus side he did cut Cap Gains taxes in ‘97 concurrent with the surplus. That was a good thing. Sadly we entered a huge recession in 2000 under that high income tax regime and it did us no good at all. Tsk.
Meanwhile regressive tax hikes going forward are going to be massive, starting with the Cap and Trade fees. You know who will be paying those…. everybody. Reductions in current deductions and benign neglect of the AMT are being discussed, and even if you took every cent the top two percent earns it still won’t be enough to pay off these giveaways, so guess who is next in line to pony up.
In the end though, we may just tell creditor nations we’re taking the Argentinian cue and won’t pay our debts, getting you off the hook. In any event these Tea Bag folks are exercising their right to assemble and speak freely caring not one whit what you think. Good for them.
As for me, I have two four letter words for you…. muni bond. 5% with no local state or federal taxes, no SS, no FICA, is a wonderful thing.
April 10th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
@22: OMG, the tax cut was too small, and something about the AMT is allegedly being discussed. Now I understand the outrage.
April 10th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
@ 22 Shooter, I want to go a Tea Baggin’ but I’m worried about the little fishies in the sea. Are tea leaves toxic to our little gilled friends?
Signed,
Nutbag
April 10th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
You know the $13.00 a week that gets phased out above $75,000.
I know! And that tax increase, man! You know, the $28 a week on people making $300,000 a year. How can they go on? This is how revolutions start!
April 10th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Hmm. So it’s absurd because you don’t approve. As opposed to the anti-war protests (which have magically fizzled out – makes me wonder about the principles of those people), of which you approved.
Right….
Bear in mind that the original tea party in Boston was in favor of a policy that very, very few colonials approved of. But then again, I’ve seen Matt yearn for an alternate reality with no revolution, so I guess it all makes sense.
April 10th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Let me get this straight. The modern Tea Baggers resent having their taxes cut with representation.
What a rallying cry!
Fuck the fishes. How do I sign up.
Signed,
Nutbag
April 10th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
I bet a lot more than 30% of people are mad about the bank bailouts.
April 10th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
People are mad, even some liberals.
April 10th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
That massive tax cut, or actually tax credit should have kicked in by now. You know the $13.00 a week that gets phased out above $75,000. Whoop-de-doo. Largest tax cut in history? Not even close.
Yeah, I actually noticed last week my paycheck was bigger. I guess you make a lot more than the rest of us, because several hundred bucks a year is pretty relevant to a lot of people right now. You’ll have to forgive our lack of concern for the top few percent that have to pay a bit more so we can, you know, buy a bit higher quality groceries.
But hey, I’m sure the protests of those who are most certainly not having their taxes raised on behalf of the very rich that are will truly turn the tide to the Republican party’s “platform”. Keep at it!
April 10th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Adam – the problem is, you didn’t get a tax cut. You got a change in the witholding rates. At the end of the year, you may or may not get to keep that increase in your weekly pay, based on how many deductions you have (etc, etc). The money being “given back” in this case is entirely bread and circuses.
April 10th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
I bet a lot more than 30% of people are mad about the bank bailouts.
I would imagine much of the country are mad about them. This liberal certainly is. But is this what they’re actually protesting about? And if so, what alternate course would they suggest be pursued? Anyone who seriously advocates a cascading bank failure as somehow the right course for the country kinda loses a lot of credibility. They surely aren’t calling for nationalization as a way to save taxpayer money, like Matt is. Are they calling for stricter regulation so this kind of situation doesn’t happen again so we save future taxpayer money? I rather doubt that as well.
These protests are typical of the problems the Republican party has right now. All they can do is say no to things. They don’t have a single legitimate proposal of their own.
April 10th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Adam – the problem is, you didn’t get a tax cut. You got a change in the witholding rates. At the end of the year, you may or may not get to keep that increase in your weekly pay, based on how many deductions you have (etc, etc).
Are you sure about that? As far as I understand a certain number of dollars used to be taken out of my paycheck for payroll taxes, and now that amount per year is x-400. I don’t actually have any deductions either, being the worst-case single renter with no debt.
But in any case, if the tax cut was “bread and circuses”, that’s fine too. Tax cuts aren’t actually very stimulative, and were mostly to get the Republicans on board. If there’s no cut, then the most ineffective part of the stimulus doesn’t get spent, which is good for the deficit!
April 10th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
I haven’t been to any of the protests so I’m not sure what they are specifically protesting against, but I am pro-protest. Let voices be heard.
April 10th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
These protests are typical of the problems the Republican party has right now. All they can do is say no to things. They don’t have a single legitimate proposal of their own.
============================================================
Oh you bet. And there’s this positive piece of astroturfing from the Left that Yglesias has nothing to say about. Obviously it couldn’t be incredibly stupid
http://www.anewwayforward.org/demonstrations/
Or this piece of astroturfing from the Administration that Matt earlier approved of:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/05/AR2009040501890.html
that by the way was a miserable failure
April 10th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Campesino,
See, that’s what I’m talking about. I said “They don’t have a single legitimate proposal of their own” and you responded with…some anti-Democrat links. You can’t be expected to be taken seriously like that.
April 10th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
@34: “What are the protests?”
The Australian Network, aka FOX NEWS, pays extras at strategic points around the country to dump bags full of tea into lakes and streams, and then films it. FOX anchors and pundits then pretend there are protest all over the country against policies that lead to higher taxes and higher deficits.
Essentially, you have a bunch of paid extras pretending be Republicans protesting their own policies. It’s all quite mad and very, very entertaining. Have you ever seen bag full of tea emptied into a waterway? WOW!!!
April 10th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Here are some teabaggers…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwdOwgD5OsY
April 10th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
тематические ссылки…
But here’s Lee Fang showing the role of corporate lobbyists in organizing these “grassroots”[...]…
April 10th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Transcript of a Tea Party: (you can see video here)
Woman: [Shouts] “Burn the books!” [applause]
Man: “I don’t think you were serious about that, were you?”
Woman: “I am too.”
Man: “Burn all the books?!”
Woman: “The ones in college, those, those brainwashing books.”
Man: “[laughs] Brainwashing books?”
Woman: “Yes.”
Man: “Which ones are those?”
Woman: “Like, the evolution crap, and, yeah…”
April 10th, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Campesino, … You can’t be expected to be taken seriously like that.
What made you think he was suddenly going to start now?
April 10th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
@ 40: After a had day of hauling sacks full of Lipton the Tea Baggers retire to the beach; to roast wienies and marshmallows over fires fueled by the burning volumes of the Origin of Species. Talk turns to the next days logistics, where to find more tea for dumping and more volumes of luminous thought to light their bonfires.
April 11th, 2009 at 12:00 am
Max424 just wins.
April 11th, 2009 at 12:10 am
@31 & 33 — Adam is right, and James Robertson is sowing disinformation. The Making Work Pay Credit ($400 for individuals or $800 for joint returns) is not just a change to the withholding rate; it’s a tax credit. Individuals making less than $75,000 and joint returns of less than $150,000 will be eligible for the whole credit on their 2009 taxes. Above that income level, it gets gradually phased out.
April 11th, 2009 at 12:23 am
In one way, the tea parties are a sign of progress:
They are the first sign of the 2008 losers moving into Kübler-Ross stage two – anger. Only a few more to go till acceptance that Obama actually won on a well articulated platform that he is now acting to implement.
But the RW bubble still shows that most saps are stuck in stage one.
Oh, it’ll be OK, folks. We’ll wait for ya. *wink*
April 11th, 2009 at 1:44 am
Or, show up with a handlebar mustache, a vest with no shirt, a leather hat, and a sign that says “I’m here for the teabagging.”
Oh Lord.
April 11th, 2009 at 1:48 am
Ted – you might try looking at the IRS page on it:
You can then go read the USA Today story on it. Bottom line – depending on your income bracket, if you don’t adjust your W4, you could end up owing some or all of that back.
It’s almost entirely bread and circuses.
April 11th, 2009 at 1:51 am
Obama already delivered a tax cut. Republican supporters of the Bush tax increases, who deliberately wrote the tax law that way for the purpose of disguising its long run cost, are protesting Obama’s lackluster enthusiasm for fixing that particular mess of theirs before tackling any of their other messes.
Real protesters will spontaneously rally behind ridiculous crap like “Down With Capitalism!” or “Free Mumia!” These Astroturf tools are even dumber than that.
April 11th, 2009 at 2:22 am
Let the protests continue until Wall Street isn’t given billions while the working man suffers! I recommend that the elite bloggers have an herbal tea party and ponder what the Obama administration has done.
President Obama giggles on 60 minutes in an interview on the economy. Secretary of State Clinton laughs when asked about the hostage situation.
What the heck are they doing? It should be no surprise to anyone that people are protesting. You think we should be celebrating???!!!
April 11th, 2009 at 2:28 am
James #47:
I didn’t read a single thing in either of those links that suggested that anybody would not get the $400 tax cut. Both of them were about how to structure your taxes to get the proper amount every week.
April 11th, 2009 at 3:52 am
Bruce Bartlett wrote a good column on this in Forbes, “Tax Tea Party Time?”. He and Clive Crook agree that America is under-taxed.
If the GOP were smarter, they’d stop dogmatically defending the current tax system as it was during the Bush administration, and instead advocate for more equitable and more realistic taxes that will raise needed revenue with the least amount of drag on the economy. They’d also advocate for taxes that are broad-based and make the linkage between taxes and government benefits. If Americans want expanded government health care programs, they should be willing to pay for it. The idea that we can all have every benefit we want from the government and toss the bill to smokers, or the top 5% of income earners, or just borrow the money from the Chinese is unsustainable. The rich aren’t as rich as they used to be, and there are fewer of them. You could tax all of their income away and it wouldn’t pay for the programs Obama is proposing. Total cigarette taxes in places like NYC are rapidly approaching the point of diminishing returns, where higher tax rates will be offset by increased smuggling or decreased consumption. And the Chinese are already making worried sounds about our debt and our dollar.
April 11th, 2009 at 6:27 am
Bruce Bartlett wrote a good column on this in Forbes, “Tax Tea Party Time?”. He and Clive Crook agree that America is under-taxed.
If the GOP were smarter, they’d stop dogmatically defending the current tax system as it was during the Bush administration, and instead advocate for more equitable and more realistic taxes that will raise needed revenue with the least amount of drag on the economy. They’d also advocate for taxes that are broad-based and make the linkage between taxes and government benefits. If Americans want expanded government health care programs, they should be willing to pay for it. The idea that we can all have every benefit we want from the government and toss the bill to smokers, or the top 5% of income earners, or just borrow the money from the Chinese is unsustainable. The rich aren’t as rich as they used to be, and there are fewer of them. You could tax all of their income away and it wouldn’t pay for the programs Obama is proposing. Total cigarette taxes in places like NYC are rapidly approaching the point of diminishing returns, where higher tax rates will be offset by increased smuggling or decreased consumption. And the Chinese are already making worried sounds about our debt and our dollar.
BTW I love your blog!
April 11th, 2009 at 7:09 am
Pardon my ignorance, but are these teabaggers going to dump tea into public waterways in an actual or symbolic sense?
If the former, what does the EPA have to say about it?
There is reason that people drink tea, it’s because it contains all sorts of interesting chemicals, many of which are very dangerous in concentration.
April 11th, 2009 at 8:19 am
@Campesino, projecting much
The New Way Forward demonstrations are the opposite of astroturf. They were conceived by a few friends in Boston, who then put up a website and started e-mailing everyone they could around the country. Now there are bigger names attached to it after it actually gained some steam, but the demonstrations are all locally organized.
This is the opposite of the Tea Party protests, which are an astroturf operation. Organizing websites had already been put in place before the Santelli rant, for example.
April 11th, 2009 at 8:49 am
@47: James, James, James. I read your links, and they say exactly what I said. Individuals get a $400 credit, phased out above $75K. Couples get an $800 credit, phased out above $150K.
The difference is that you’re huffing and puffing about the possibility that you’ll get even more money withheld, or that people above 75K/150K won’t get the full credit. Yep, that’s possible. But it’s always possible that your withholding won’t precisely match the tax you owe; it doesn’t make the tax credit any less real. So no, my disingenuous and pointlessly spinning friend, it ain’t “almost entirely bread and circuses.” It is, precisely, $400 of bread.
April 11th, 2009 at 8:53 am
@49 — oh, now I get it. I foolishly thought you guys were protesting taxes. Now I understand that you’re protesting laughter.
Who thought up that brilliant PR idea? Whoever it is, hold on to them — this stuff is pure gold.
April 11th, 2009 at 9:16 am
@56: The only problem I see is that they’re likely to create more of the very thing they’re protesting.
April 11th, 2009 at 9:51 am
If the GOP were smarter…
I’m avoid the obvious wisecrack. My question, DaveInHackensack, is to ask you why the GOP hasn’t been smarter about this? Seriously, they have really fallen off the reality wagon.
The rich aren’t as rich as they used to be, and there are fewer of them. You could tax all of their income away and it wouldn’t pay for the programs Obama is proposing. Total cigarette taxes in places like NYC are rapidly approaching the point of dim
The funny thing about high levels of income inequality is that this is not true. The end result of stagnating median income is that to “boost” everyone’s income, you need to give them tax cuts (ameliorate the pain they’re feeling from making less money and facing bigger expenses), but since everyone at the top is making more money, raising their taxes is the only way to increase revenue. If you want a “fairer” tax system that’s not focused on taxing the top 1% (or 2% or 5% or whatever you have on your mind), then you raise everyone’s income, both ensuring that more taxes can be raised from them in increasing amounts and that they won’t mind because they’ll be making more money anyway.
April 11th, 2009 at 10:42 am
I actually went to one of these things. I loved the group sing part:
Then we all had some yummy cake with pink frosting . . .
April 11th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Not sure I understand. I certainly spent time and money organizing against Bush even when he was very popular. It seems to me the issue is the corporate astroturf nature of this – organizing 30% of the population that doesn’t like the president doesn’t seem silly, it is just what political minorities do …
April 11th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
@53: As a long time member of the Tea Baggers and the Republican Party, part of our goal is to eliminate government altogether. The existence of the EPA and concern for the little fishies in the sea is exactly what we are protesting.
We are also protesting against pansie ass tea drinkers -that means you, England. If you notice on various videos, none of us are actually drinking the tea, just dumping it.
Signed,
Nutbag
April 11th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
So let’s just get the liberal position clarified.
Giant anti-war puppets marching under a communist banner carrying BUSHITLER!! signs is the true expression of the American people.
A few Americans getting together to express their displeasure with extravagant levels of new debt is inherently mockable.
April 11th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
DTM,
“As I would put it, they could become a party of true fiscal discipline and efficient revenue-raising, not just a party of untethered tax cuts.”
Sounds good to me.
“Of course you could still have very significant debates about tax policy within that framework.”
That’s true.
Tyro,
“My question, DaveInHackensack, is to ask you why the GOP hasn’t been smarter about this?”
Probably because the current tack has been successful for so long and they have realized it’s time to change tacks. Also because, due to the complexity of our tax system, and the likelihood that more Americans pay attention to the large amount of taxes that are withheld from their paychecks than they do to the large amount that gets refunded to them at the end of the year, most Americans think they pay more in taxes than they actually do.
“If you want a “fairer” tax system that’s not focused on taxing the top 1% (or 2% or 5% or whatever you have on your mind), then you raise everyone’s income, both ensuring that more taxes can be raised from them in increasing amounts and that they won’t mind because they’ll be making more money anyway.”
This is another case where two liberal goals are in conflict with each other. When our economy grows strongly, income inequality tends to rise (even though the poor usually are better off in absolute terms), and it tends to fall during recessions. As with lower carbon emissions, a long L-shaped recession would be great for reducing income inequality. Of course, the poor would be worse off during such a recession than they were before.
I agree that it would be a good thing if lower income people earned more, and that would enable us to broaden the tax base further. That’s why I think the government ought to enact policies that would help create the conditions for more higher paying blue collar jobs here. My guess is that you would be against most of those policies though.
April 11th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Uh-huh. On your say-so of course. In fact, most everyone says things like this:
And of course you can always link to the government census bureau for both the unreduced data and reports.
These aren’t very hide to find, btw.
April 11th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
@65: We are the fearless Tea Baggers. We get our marching orders from our courageous Tea Bag officers. These orders include:
1) No data mining.
2) Data, in paper form, is to be used in our bonfires.
3) Bonfires that burn data are good.
We follow these orders because we are loyal to the order givers. Plus, Tea Bagging is tough, physical work, and leaves no time for use of our brains.
Signed,
Nutbag
April 15th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
I’m still amazed they’re they continuing to refer to themselves after a euphemism for gonad sucking.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:35 am
I am an average American Citizen and want government out of my pockets. I do not want them to tell me I cannot say God but can, Allah and every other religion. I do not want my legislators to vote on anything without reading it. Especially 1100 pages that will give failing companies bonus. I believe if a company manages badly than it goes under reorganizes and comes back stronger. The government does not bail them out with my money! Officials who voted yes on this stimulus bill without reading it should be voted out the next election. They did not vote what was best for our country they voted what would get them reelected. Looking out for me only and not for our county needs to stop. What has happened to us?
I was watching CNN when the woman was interviewing a man holding his child and she would not let him finish saying what he was trying to say. She has to be the worst reporter I have ever seen. What has happened to reporting what the average people have to say? Does the average person not have a say anymore? Do you have to be against everything our forefathers fought for to have a say. I thought this was about freedom of speech. Is that not what the media has been reporting about the wars? Is this not freedom of speech or is this not the agenda of freedom! The next thing I am hearing about is Barbara Boxer’s bill on taking away parents rights to discipline their children. Where does it stop?