Rick Perry: Leave Texas Alooooone
Texas Governor Rick Perry has been throwing some serious heat lately, of the sort not scene since the federal government wanted to make states let black folks vote, or since there was some suggestion that the federal government might curtail white people’s ability to own black people as chattel:
“I believe the federal government has become oppressive. It’s become oppressive in its size, its intrusion in the lives of its citizens, and its interference with the affairs of our state. [...] “We think it’s time to draw the line in the sand and tell Washington that no longer are we going to accept their oppressive hand in the state of Texas. That’s what this press conference, that’s what these Texans are standing up for. There is a point in time where you stand up and say enough is enough, and I think Americans, and Texans especially have reached that point.”
Via Steve Benen, Texas Blue observes that Perry hasn’t always been that hostile to federal meddling in his state:
— Governor Rick Perry, five days ago: Governor Perry Calls FEMA To Assist With Wildfires
— Governor Rick Perry, last month: Governor Perry Calls For 1,000 Troops To Be Sent To Border
— Governor Rick Perry, five months ago: Governor Perry Requests 18 Month Extension Of Federal Aid For Ike Debris Removal
Honestly, though, I agree with Mike Tomasky that if Texas wants to leave the union we should probably just let them go and I’d say the same for other southern states that feel oppressed by our efforts to use federal tax money to help them take care of their unemployed citizens. Back during the Civil War, the cause of keeping the union together was intertwined with the cause of fighting the great evil of slavery. But assume we just welcome migrants from the Republic of Texas with open arms if they want to flee north, there’d be no comparable problem with letting Texas leave.
Obviously, one advantage of large-scale secession of the most conservative states is that it would be a lot easier to pass progressive legislation. An aspect of Civil War history that people don’t tend to appreciate is that the temporary departure of the Dixie bloc of Senators allowed a huge flowering of legislative activity that wouldn’t otherwise have been possible. In addition to prosecuting the war, the Lincoln-era GOP took sweeping action on industrial policy, infrastructure, land reform, etc. much of which would have been extraordinarily difficult to accomplish had the southerners just stayed in their seats and used the considerable levers of obstruction that are available to legislative minorities.
103 Responses to “Rick Perry: Leave Texas Alooooone”
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April 15th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
if Perry is talking secession, then he is a traitor to his country and should be dealt with appropriately.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Only if they promise to take Oklahoma with them.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Can I have their Senate seats?
April 15th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Dude – we’d have to get rid of Austin. That’s completely unacceptable to me. As I read recently “Ich Bin ein Austiner”.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
This is a great idea. Progressive states would gladly welcome refugees from the New Confederacy – I expect there would be a mass exodus of intelligence, common sense and earning ability.
Let the teabagging wankers watch their houses get sucked up by a tornado, burned down by wildfires, washed away by hurricanes – maybe we could organize prayer vigil for them?
April 15th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
One problem with letting Jesusland secede is that we would likely have to negotiate rights of way between the eastern and western portions of the remaining United States. And you know how they got over the mythical NAFTA superhighway . . .
April 15th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
I vote for Matt’s proposal. Of course to produce a realistic repeat of secessionist history the North should be permitted to pillage, rape and burn much of Georgia. And we diverge thereafter by skipping Reconstruction.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Not to mention, but 43 to 44 percent of Texans VOTED FOR OBAMA.
Leave no man behind!!
April 15th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
I’ve lived in the DFW area for 10 years and I’ve never met anyone that thought Texas should secede. That mentality is mostly relegated to the heavily wooded “Arkantucky” region of east Texas where the men are men and the goats are nervous. We only hurt ourselves by repeatedly reelecting this Perry clown, but there is no excuse to take the rest of America down with us by inflicting John Cornyn on you all. Austin can’t get weirder fast enough!
April 15th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Considering that not quite 46% voted for McCain nationally, one could say that there are as many Obama voters in Texas, as there were McCain voters in the USA.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Texas can leave, but we get to keep their military bases. And Johnson Space Center. And yes, they have to take Oklahoma with them. Minus Oklahoma’s military bases, of course.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
But if Texas were to leave the union where would we get our Steers and Queers from?
April 15th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
CParis
Currently, common sense and earnign ability is flowing from your so-called “progressive” states into texas…
Texas now has more fortune 500 companies HQ there than NY, with the gap poised to increase in the near term.
CA and NY are dying, and texas is now the engine of the nation..ya’ll probably shouldn’t be so glib about how little texas means to the country
April 15th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
@DTM
Nah, I think we’d still have a thru-way to get from east to west- the Dakotas and Montana aren’t that particularly radical, and Ohio certainly won’t go with the South. It’d get narrow at some points, but hey, all the better reason to push for more passenger rail construction.
What one has to be concerned about of course, is losing the “oases-in -the- crazy” the pre-mentioned Austin, New Orleans, southern Florida, etc..
April 15th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Well, one big reason we fought that whole civil war thing was that we decided the US federal government had an interest in the welfare of the very large number of human beings who had no choice in the matter of whether to secede but lived in the states that had done so.
Accepting refugees from the newly-independent Kakistocracy of Texas isn’t enough; as we found out during Katrina, fleeing is expensive and inconvenient, and it’s the most helpless who don’t.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
You help me get out of my house and we’ll move to the NE (Vermont looks nice) in an instant. Get me out of Texas, this place is insane!
April 15th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Here’s an email that i sent to TX Gov Perry from their state website after contacting my company’s travel department …
April 15th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
” …of the sort not scene since the federal government…”
Yglesias typo of the year nominee.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
This reminds me of those old “Jesusland” maps after the 2004 election.
The thought of letting Texas and the south leave does occasionally seem appealing, but I have to remind myself that the residents of this state are Americans too. Even if their local political leaders are dead set against it, Texans should have universal health care too.
Additionally, remember that your proposed neo-confederacy would be dominated by the modern republican party. So in this new nation, every environmental regulation would be thrown overboard. Goodbye clean air act, clean water act, etc. Polluting industries would flock there. I would imagine that the wildly increased carbon emissions from the new confederate states of america would dramatically exceed the reduced emissions from the remaining USA, which, without the south, would enact cap and trade, or a carbon tax, or the like.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
I too would be supportive of Texas’ secession as long as they take Oklahoma with them. Unfortunately, not even Texas Republicans are stupid enough to fall for that deal. I don’t believe there are any humans stupid enough to fall for that deal, actually.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Ike
So those Fortune 500 companies would stay in a fledgling country? Highly doubt it. Nice try, though.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Re “In addition to prosecuting the war, the Lincoln-era GOP took sweeping action on industrial policy, infrastructure, land reform, etc. much of which would have been extraordinarily difficult to accomplish had the southerners just stayed in their seats and used the considerable levers of obstruction that are available to legislative minorities.”
————–
Yes — what progressive could fail to applaude the Gilded Age, Robber Barons, Grant Administration kleptocracy, and Child Labor?
Because nothing promotes Democracy liking moving all decision making to a distant capital and putting it in the hands of 550 corrupt men who need to raise a LOT of money for the next election.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Lincoln and the Republicans didn’t free the blacks so much as they enslaved the rest of us. I seem to recall Lincoln saying that he would let the South keep black people enslaved if the South had agreed to stay in the Union.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
You’re kind of funny, Don. You do understand that Northern legislative dominance ended in 1876, right? Like, before all that stuff.
The period from 1861-1876 contains basically all federal progressive reform between 1800 and the New Deal.
Let ‘em go. I have a passport, I can still see my in-laws.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Rick Perry is a horse’s ass, all right; so why do you feel compelled to fall to his level. Your “let ‘em secede” rhetoric reminds me of the slack jawed reactionaries who unhesitatingly blame “Black” character flaws for the poverty in inner city African American neighborhoods, or the “Arab mind” for Al Queda, or “the Jews” for Bernie Madoff. Grow up. Obama got 45% of the vote in Texas. Dallas has an Hispanic lesbian Sheriff. The two leading candidates for Mayor of Houston are a Black former City Attorney and a lesbian who has already been elected City Comptoller three times. Democrats are within one vote of controlling the state House of Representatives. Half the Republicans in the state legislature oppose Perry and support a bill that would let Texas take all the Stimulus money. Collective punishment and tribal “us against them” stereotypes are the enemy of thought. I expected better of you.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Funny, these were the people who railed against those un-American folks who didn’t back the last President. Even in the horrific Bush years, no legitimate Democratic Representative spoke of secession. (perhaps because that would have been un-American)
It makes me wonder… If they succeeded with their blatantly treasonous notion of secession, would they call the country “Real America”?
April 15th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Nah, I think we’d still have a thru-way to get from east to west- the Dakotas and Montana aren’t that particularly radical, and Ohio certainly won’t go with the South. It’d get narrow at some points, but hey, all the better reason to push for more passenger rail construction.
First, I’ll take Idaho for the block, thanks to the LDS.
Second, suppose you want to get from Iowa (in East United States) to Colorado (West United States). You’d have to go up through South Dakota and Montana, loop through Canada to bypass Idaho, then down the West Coast until you could get into Arizona, then through a bit of New Mexico (to avoid the DMZ at the Four Corners) and finally back into Colorado.
And that is why we would need safe passage through Nebraska.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
In his haste to insinuate that Rick Perry is equivalent to a slave holding secessionist, Matt overlooks a few facts. Texas accounted for 70% of all jobs created in the US in 2008. It added 36000 manufacturing jobs since 2004. And it is the top exporting state for 6 years running. IIRC, Texas, Florida, Arizona, and Nevada accounted for 70% of jobs created this past decade. It’s combination of right to work laws, low taxes, and light regulatory environment mean it will continue to prosper economically. So were Texas to leave the Union, you might expect people to continue to immigrate from other states to Texas, as they have done in large numbers for the past decade, rather than leave Texas. Without Texas, the current economic forecast of the nation would be much bleaker.
The totally ignorant and bigoted south-bashing so common on this blog I’ll just ignore. I don’t expect any facts will get in the way of your snide know-nothingism.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
dr. snap,
You do realize people are just making fun of Perry, right?
April 15th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
One might remind Gov. Perry that he was elected with 39% of the vote, somewhat less than that anti-American socialist Obama received in Texas.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Brad -
Texas secedes.
Many of the snowbirds move back to the US.
US sends in military to fight secession.
US enacts sanctions to weaken Texas economy.
The New Republic of Texas fails, or, at best is a third world nation on the US’s bad side which means other countries will be reluctant to deal with it.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
If they secede, then they can elect Chuck Norris to be their King/
April 15th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
So were Texas to leave the Union, you might expect people to continue to immigrate from other states to Texas, as they have done in large numbers for the past decade, rather than leave Texas.
You might expect that, if you were, um, insane. That’s like a high school kid who has lots of spending money from his part-time job thinking he’d be doing great if only he didn’t have his oppressive parents living with him.
But hey, if you’re so convinced of your position, then I suppose you along with everyone in this thread is of the same mind about cheering Texas on as it leaves.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Perry’s facing a primary challenge from Kay Bailey Hutchison. After an appearance on Glenn Beck and with assistance from Palin, Perry has picked his strategy: full-on populist wingnut.
That’s why he made this statement.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
I’d like to point out that, as a native Texan, we certainly don’t want to lose Austin (possibly the greatest city in the country?) to a secession.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Yeah, Brad, Florida, Arizona, and Nevada are really the engines of the economy right now. Where’s a foreclosure map when I need one?
Also, the oil price spike sustained the Texan economy for most of 2008. Unfortunately, the oil companies invested as though the price spike would last forever; they’re now laying off thousands.
The combination of right-to-work laws, low taxes, and light regulatory environment JUST FUCKED THE ENTIRE WORLD ECONOMY.
Brad: never, ever vote again.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
For all those above expressing a certain concern, personally I think “Austin Airlift” has a nice ring to it.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
So I guess Matt can’t read the 9th and 10th amendments. Which stands to reason; the feds can’t read them, either.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
“And that is why we would need safe passage through Nebraska.”
DTM, you just highlighted the one good thing about Nebraska. It can be used as a means of transit between two places that aren’t Nebraska.
The solution here is going to look a lot like the West Bank. They get most of the land, but we keep all the interstate highways and military bases. Unfortunately, this solution hasn’t worked very well in the West Bank.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Secession by Texas or the entire south will create a poor, stupid and belligerent nation on our Southern Border.
At least now while they are still in the Union, we don’t have to worry about going to war with them.
If they do secede, maybe Perry will recall W into active duty in the TANG. Now that would be sweet irony!
April 15th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Apparently James can’t read the first eighteen words of the Tenth Amendment, nor Article VI, Clause 2.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
DTM, you just highlighted the one good thing about Nebraska. It can be used as a means of transit between two places that aren’t Nebraska.
Thanks to a couple cross-country roadtrips as a child, I long ago came to the conclusion that what Nebraska had going for it is an excellent view of Colorado.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
1. I find the idea of ANY state sceceding to be horrifying, and no one should be encouraging such a move either.
2. When the so-called “sovereignty” crowd talks about the gov’mint intruding on their lives, we all know what they mean. That means Civil Rights Laws, clean air and water, the FDA, employment laws, and separation of Church and State.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
I live in Minnesota, one of the states that gets bay 70-75% of the dollars we send to D.C. I get that as a prosperous state that we might be below the 1:1 line, but it strikes me that many of the Governors with the biggest complaints about D.C. are the ones with hand most outstretched.
Seems their own conservative rhetoric about resenting the dependency model may be true!
April 15th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Perry is a buffon who models himself after George Bush and probably has hopes that all of this BS will either improve his chances against Hutchinson (which sadly it probably will) in the next gubernatorial elections or improve his chances at getting a VP nomination.
It plays good in Texas because Texas has a sizable right-wing base that is terrified (yeah, I’m being nice in my assessment of Texas voters by limiting my description to “terrified”) of the Obama presidency. It’s not too different than Sanford with the exception that the Democratic party in S. Carolina has more political clout and influence than the state Democratic party in Texas – so Perry can get away with being even more extreme in his posturing.
Frankly, Perry shouldn’t be taken too seriously.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Re Luke at 24: “The period from 1861-1876 contains basically all federal progressive reform between 1800 and the New Deal.”
—————
Er ..no. The Progressive Era was much later — 1890 to 1920. By 1920 Democratic President Woodrow Wilson had destroyed any loyalty Progressives might had held for the Democratic Party.
The Reconstruction era was a period in which Democratic and Republican elites conpeted in stealing everything not nailed down — and fucked poor whites almost as much much as they fucked Afro-Americans.
Things shook out the way they did largely because the Panic of 1873 turned the South into even more of an economic shithole than it already was. The carpetbaggers decamped back to the North and left the blacks to the tender mercies of Democratic paramilitaries — since the opportunities for stealing tax funds from Railroad bonds had greatly diminished.
To protect their property (land) from taxes, the Democratic elites in the South passed laws which disenfranchised poor whites as well as blacks. Their belief –that the country should be run by those who owned it — was met with amiable grins by the Northern Robber Barons.
April 15th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Don’t let them secede unless they promise to take the entire Bush family with them.
April 15th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
The difference between Yglesias and an infinite number of monkeys decreased again.
April 15th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Don’t just let them secede. Sell Texas to China, because they deserve each other.
April 15th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
if Texas wants to leave the union we should probably just let them go and I’d say the same for other southern states that feel oppressed by our efforts to use federal tax money to help them take care of their unemployed citizens.
Sounds good to me. Too bad about Austin, but it’s not the same anymore anyway; anybody who thinks Austin is still a ‘quirky little city’ hasn’t been there recently. Also too bad about NOLA, but it’s already ‘too bad’ about that city…
To the person who decries ‘South bashing’: who’s bashing whom here? Quite a few elected officials from your adorable South are in the habit – never really broken for many decades – of saying some very seditious things. The fact that y’all have a taste for lost causes which fully deserve to be lost – like slavery, apartheid, and medieval political economy – is YOUR problem, not anyone else’s. You are up to your eyeballs in Federal welfare, and I’d say that, at the very least, it’s time for that to change. I know the South – both ‘deep’ and otherwise – very well, and frankly, you guys just aren’t worth it. This would be a better country without you.
April 15th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Is Matt aware that the bulk of our military comes from these conservative states, and that because of the base closing commission’s cost cutting – which Matt supported – essentially the entire military infrastructure exists from Norfolk on south?
If these guys secede, they’ll invade us again, and this time, we’ll fucking lose.
April 15th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Greg,
Good point. We are going to need a little time first to build a robot army.
April 15th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
I love DTM’s “we’re only joking” explanation for smug shit-headedness.
Y’all are breaking no new ground whatsoever. And as for Matt, he’s usually better than this.
April 15th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Too bad about Austin, but it’s not the same anymore anyway; anybody who thinks Austin is still a ‘quirky little city’ hasn’t been there recently.
Anyone who thinks Austin is “ruined” needs to answer the question “Compared to what other ‘pristine’ quirky little city in North America?”.
Yes, I’m a homer, and yes, Austin’s changed, but it still kicks major, major, ass. Plus, Texas now=Virginia 15-20 years ago. Soon enough Texas will start going blue.
April 15th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
I think people may have it a little backwards. If we should ever restore the Constitution and allow states to secede (no prohibitions against it, of course, the opinions of uneducated and uninformed people notwithstanding), then it would be the progressive states that would take the lead, not the conservative ones. The conservative ones love the federal government, which is the most conservative institution in the country, and the source of all things right-wing. The only people who still cling to the federal government are those who love the military and the corporates and those who want to establish a totalitarian government which controls every aspect of citizens’ lives. Real progressives fight the feds, and believe in the freedom that the founding fathers clearly intended.
April 15th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Texas … nothing good ever came out of Texas.
April 15th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Pretty shortsighted considering 3.5 million of us reliably vote Democratic, and we’ll be a blue state in a decade. As for tea-bag Perry; why so serious? The Governor of Texas has less power than our railroad commissioner,(otherwise Dubya’ would have been exposed as an incompetent slug long before he carried your state.)
If you want to gas stereotypical slurs, at least announce your home state so I’ll have a better idea of why I’m dying of envy down here in.
April 15th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Texas … nothing good ever came out of Texas.
I don’t know if that’s a reference I don’t get, or if it’s just a statement of opinion. If it’s the latter, it’s really stupid. Lots of good things have come out of Texas, and it’s not a short list. Now, Mississippi, on the other hand….that IS a short list.
April 15th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
I know this is all fun and games, but in that spirit, the southern oasis issue really is a problem. New Orleans, where I live, voted 80% for Obama, and is also heavily armed. We wouldn’t want to be part of the new confederacy, but we don’t want to move to the north either (lots of us tried that after Katrina. We didn’t like it) What you’d probably have is a full scale insurrection, and with our fondness for liquor, quixotic ideals and our aforementioned arsenals, things could turn real ugly real fast.
April 15th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
@57: “Pretty shortsighted considering 3.5 million of us reliably vote Democratic, and we’ll be a blue state in a decade.”
Exactly. I want Texas to freely join the union. I want Alabama. Hell, I even want Mississippi to join up.
Northerners get frustrated. We look back over 150 plus years of history and we say f~ck the south, let it go. But we don’t mean it. Not really.
We are going to win the this motherf~cking Civil War at some point. With your help, we will finally free Texas. Hang in there.
April 15th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Texas … nothing good ever came out of Texas.
Randolf Scott, Tex Avery, the integrated circuit and deep-fried twinkies…
Show us your hand, Mr. Bug.
April 15th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
@60: Thank you Max, we appreciate the kindness and we’ll keep doing our part.
April 15th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
I love DTM’s “we’re only joking” explanation for smug shit-headedness.
Well, you know, that often is the explanation.
For what it is worth, in truth I agree with Max424.
April 15th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Geesh! Texans (I’m an ex) are proud of the “fact” that they can “secede from the Union” whenever they want. If you lived there, you would hear this as an aside a few times a week, from people dumb and smart, left and right, conservative or liberal. It is a genetic feature of anyone “born and raised” in Texas.
The typical comment is “You know we could secede if we wanted to, it’s in the constitution.”
Don’t take it personally, and Rick Perry will not lose a single vote, he might even gain a few, by going there.
But twenty years ago we didn’t really need the rest of the country: we had oil! We also had lots of military bases, right-to-work laws and we were surrounded by Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Old Mexico and the Gulf of Mexico. The nearest sign of modern civilization is Los Angeles (except Austin).
April 15th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
@61: Texas gave us, amongst other things “the integrated circuit and deep-fried twinkies…”
Duly noted. And I repeat with ever growing enthusiasm, “we can’t let ‘er down, we gotta save Texas!”
April 15th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Geesh! Texans (I’m an ex) are proud of the “fact” that they can “secede from the Union” whenever they want. If you lived there, you would hear this as an aside a few times a week, from people dumb and smart, left and right, conservative or liberal. It is a genetic feature of anyone “born and raised” in Texas.
The typical comment is “You know we could secede if we wanted to, it’s in the constitution.”
I’ve always been amused by that sentiment. And I’ve heard it from some of the most liberal people I know. I tried to point out that they did try, in 1861, and we know how that worked out for them.
April 15th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
The fucking ridiculous thing is that for decades, and EVEN NOW, southern liberals stand up to the right wing in a way that would make your Park Slope or Coolidge Circle short hairs curl. High school friend of mine who moved to Knoxville got shot by a wingnut who attacked her Unitarian Church, yelling about “libruls.”
To hear this crap from ignoramuses on the left, who love to make their silly Jesusland “joke”, makes me sick.
I love where I live and I fight every day harder than 90% of you ever have, in a place where a lot of people need our help… and I live in a relatively liberal southern city. Compared to my Dixie comrades who live in the sticks, I have it good.
April 15th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
I got Coolidge Corner and Cleveland Circle mixed up. I did used to live in Brighton MA, back in college days, even if I sound like a nitwit now.
April 15th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Is Matt aware that the bulk of our military comes from these conservative states, and that because of the base closing commission’s cost cutting – which Matt supported – essentially the entire military infrastructure exists from Norfolk on south?
Essentially, it doesn’t. The military infrastructure is pretty spread out throughout the country. Moreover, since that’s all United States federal infrastructure, none of it would go with the secessionists.
If these guys secede, they’ll invade us again, and this time, we’ll fucking lose.
Um, they won’t exactly be taking our nuclear weapons with them when they go.
April 15th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
Obviously, one advantage of large-scale secession of the most conservative states is that it would be a lot easier to pass progressive legislation.
I think that is all this post is really about — but I’d point out that Texas is a great deal less conservative than Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama, etc. Give it ten years (and the opportunity for less-gerrymandered districting) and it may look a lot more like Colorado and New Mexico politically — a swing state. Combine that with its large chunk of the economic engine, and secession would be a bad deal for progressives.
April 15th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Hutchinson is extremely popular, and I don’t see Perry winning his primary challenge, which is part of the reason why he’s pulling this nonsense. Not only is Perry facing a primary challenge from Hutchinson, but the Texas legislature is also in session this year–it only meets every two years–so yeah, it’s wingnut time. You know the legislature is meeting when the governor’s office starts making weird proclamations. Perry’s got some authority issues. Sigh.
April 15th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
All this teabag-related BS just serves to remind me how much the money boys used to pay off politicians to go “nigger calling” when they didn’t think they were getting their way. It was idiotic, but it worked. Class warfare with a nice chocolate coating to help it slide down.
I see that the Governor didn’t study law, so I suppose I shouldn’t expect him to know anything about Texas v. White… not that he really cares about facts one way or another when he’s trying to get some TV time.
April 15th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
DG,
Seriously, this is the equivalent of jokes about your college rival.
April 15th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Surely this is a feature, not a bug?
April 15th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
It’s woefully apparent that a number of responders don’t understand Texas much at all, or Texans themselves. I moved to Texas due to a job and after living on the eastern seaboard all my life…they’re a different breed. They’ve an honest pride for Texas — a Republic before it agreed to join the Union — and the love America with a fierceness born from an understanding of and spirit for independence, but they do not mistake the namesake ‘USA’ for the liberties that the constitution provides.
At the core, there’s no more desire for an independent Texas than there were among the colonies in 1766. It’s fanciful to say that the civil war was about slavery but that’s pejorative and those making the argument know that and that the issues were the rights of states vs the federal government. Washington’s power-drunk stumble into both facism and socialism is finding a new way to draw attention to how easily we can go from the bastion of freedom to 1930s Germany.
Look at cities who embrace a socialist approach: they are predominately the ones in trouble. If you want it, vote for it, but Texans are unlikely to let it be shoved down their throats.
And Texans are terribly nice people. I’m sure they’d be happy to work out an agreement on pricing, assuming the crumbling-under-absurd-debt could afford their rates.
Come to think of it…seeing what I’ve seen lately from the east and west coasts, I might just go native since I really detest the idea of becoming a backwater nation to state someone’s ego.
April 15th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Devo: “…for progressives.”
“…for socialists.” Fixed your typographical error.
April 15th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Texas gave us G.W. Bush. Surely some penance is called for?
April 15th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Good, let them leave, stupid crackers, Just take John Gibson and W.
April 15th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Rick Perry is Disgusting and should be allowed to take his fellow wackos out of the United States of America.Bye Bye guys..Obama will be here for the next eight years so you better hurry out!
April 15th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
oh good news at last..some of you Obama people in Texas can move over to Illinois and Virginia,you are welcome…let them go and take all the fox people with you and let us all live happily ever after in our land..In God we Trust
April 15th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
One more tired “let’s the South secede” blog post. I guess every major political blogger eventually gets around to writing one, spurring the familiar round of wise-ass comments.
One commenter was right that it’s silly to imagine Texans, even of a confirmed right-wing stripe, devote any thought to the topic of, of all things, secession.
Here’s a quaint thought: Americans should be bound by bonds of affection across lines of region and ideology.
Is there Texas pride — self-congratulatory, indulgent, oversized, often ludicrous? Yep. Kinda like the boundless pride of blog-comment liberals.
During the 2008 presidential campaign, Michael Kinsley wrote that he was tired of the assertion that liberals indulged in snide, contemptuous rhetorical attacks on red states. He demands concrete proof. Somebody send him the URL for Matt’s post and this comment thread, please.
April 15th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Kelly Says:
April 15th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Texas … nothing good ever came out of Texas.
Randolf Scott, Tex Avery, the integrated circuit and deep-fried twinkies…
Show us your hand, Mr. Bug.
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And Bob Wills!
April 15th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Additionally, remember that your proposed neo-confederacy would be dominated by the modern republican party. So in this new nation, every environmental regulation would be thrown overboard. Goodbye clean air act, clean water act, etc. Polluting industries would flock there. I would imagine that the wildly increased carbon emissions from the new confederate states of america would dramatically exceed the reduced emissions from the remaining USA, which, without the south, would enact cap and trade, or a carbon tax, or the like.
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Interesting counterpoint to this is that Texas leads the nation in wind energy generation
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/business/23wind.html
It passed California as the leading wind energy state and is widening the lead. Something like 3% of electricity in Texas comes from wind.
Ironically, the lack of environmental regulation in Texas is the reason for this. Projects in Texas mostly go on private land with a minimum of environmental review. Also, the Texas PUC has approved large transmission line projects to bring the power from windy west Texas to the cities.
In California, most wind farms are on public land and require an EIS to build. Even projects on private land are subject to environmental review under the California Environmental Quality Act which is almost as stringent. Also, utilities there are stalled on their big transmission line upgrades (Sunrise Powerlink and Greenpath) by environmental opposition
April 15th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Re: They’ve an honest pride for Texas — a Republic before it agreed to join the Union
Um, so too was Vermont. Shall we ascribe to modern Vermonters superior virtues too?
Re: It’s fanciful to say that the civil war was about slavery but that’s pejorative and those making the argument know that and that the issues were the rights of states vs the federal government.
Here we go again with histoical denialism. Good grief, at least do the CSA leaders the honor of listening to their own words. In speech after speech, document after document they told the whole world they were seceduing so they could keep slaves in chains. Racists they were, but at least honorable enough not to lie about it.
April 15th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
Um, so too was Vermont. Shall we ascribe to modern Vermonters superior virtues too?
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Sure, go right ahead
April 15th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
payingattention Says: “…a number of responders don’t understand Texas much at all, or Texans themselves.”
I’ll assume you meant to place the period after Texans, and not, themselves. Either way, I’d suggest that while Matt’s notion about slavery may be fanciful, you’re notions of Texas, Texans, and the role of states’ rights in that war are at best, highly romanticized. My great-grandfather would have told you about his three great-uncles, and how their dismembered remains, rest together in a single grave in the piney woods. He would have told you how none them had ever owned a new pair of shoes, and how their folks didn’t even own the land they grew up on and worked every day. He’d also tell you that for those three, very young farm boy rebels, “states rights” had no more meaning than a Tea-baggers talking points. He died believing they were butchered, defending the stars and bars of Southern market share. He was bitter, but my grandfather’s take was more upbeat; the Yankees being mostly Northern Europeans, were rigid and self-righteous, and we were Celts. And as such, we have issues with authority, likely genetic, and besides, by nature, we just like to fight.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:21 am
Don’t take this too seriously. Perry is a little worried that he’s gonna have to run against Hutchison, so he’s fanning the conservative base. It’s a little embarrassing, really.
And considering that Texas Democrats won’t field anybody with half a chance or half a budget to go against him, I suppose I’ll have to campaign for Hutchison to try to get Perry out of the Governor’s Mansion.
Of course, Kinky Friedman may decide to make a fool of himself by running again…
April 16th, 2009 at 12:42 am
I’m just as ready as the next guy to see Texas go its own way but let’s face it, within a year of two we’d be dealing with the equivalent of Waziristan right on own border.
With all our problems, having a failed state south of Oklahoma is the last thing we need.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:04 am
So what does Texas have to do to survive as a Republic?
1. NASA is just south of Houston, Texas. (We will control the space industry.)
2. We refine over 85% of the gasoline in the United States.
3. Defense Industry. (We have over 65% of it) The term “Don’t mess with Texas,” will take on a whole new meaning.
4. Oil – we can supply all the oil that the Republic of Texas will need for the next 300 years. Yankee states? Sorry about that.
5. Natural Gas – Again we have all we need and it’s too bad about those northern states. John Kerry will figure a way to keep them warm….
6. Computer Industry – we currently lead the nation in producing computer chips and communications: Small places like Texas Instruments, Dell Computer, EDS, Raytheon, National Semiconductor, Motorola, Intel, AMD, Atmel, Applied Materials, Ball Semiconductor, Dallas Semiconductor, Delphi, Nortel, Alcatel, Etc, Etc. The list goes on and on.
7. Health Centers – We have the largest research centers for Cancer research, the best burn centers and the top trauma units in the world and other large health planning centers.
8. We have enough colleges to keep us going: UT Texas, A&M, Texas Tech, Rice, SMU, University of Houston, Baylor, UNT, Texas Women’s University, Ivy grows better in the south anyway
9. We have a ready supply of workers. (Just open the border when we need some)
10. We have control of the paper industry, plastics, insurance, etc.
11. In case of a foreign invasion, we have the Texas National Guard and the Texas Air National Guard. We don’t have an army but since everybody down here has at least six rifles and a pile of ammo, we can raise an army in 24 hours if we need it. If the situation really gets bad, we can always call Department of Public Safety and ask them to send over a couple Texas Rangers.
12. We are totally self sufficient in beef, poultry, hogs and several types of grain, fruit and vegetables and lets not forget seafood from the gulf. And everybody down here knows how to cook them so that they taste good. Don’t need any food.
This just names a few of the items that will keep the Republic Of Texas in good shape. There isn’t a thing out there that we need and don’t have.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:55 am
Hmm, this “Texas secession” myth has been around so long I can remember asking my grade-school teacher about it 35 years ago…problem is, it’s not true. Never has been true.
http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texas.asp
Now, what really ought to scare the bejeebers (I’m using Matt’s editor, sue me)out of northerners is the possibility of Texas splitting into five states, each with two Senators…
RWG (but, hey, I’m sure Austin would become its own state, so it’s not all bad)
April 16th, 2009 at 2:16 am
Why do all the folks on this blogs think all Southerners are illiterate, uneducated dunces? Just because may of us have not forgotten the US is a republic and not a democracy and believe in Federalism does not mean we are stupid.
I have two honors degrees – one in finance and other in law – both from reasonably prestigious private universities (on scholarships). I turned down admission to the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business and turned down one of only six legal positions at the SEC the year mine was offered… I know run a private business.
Why do you think just because I do not believe in big government and do believe in the responsibility of individuals I am an idiot?
Check the statistics. We in the South (and the West outside of California) have been the creators of virtually the entire growth in the US economy for many years. People are leaving high tax states like NY, NJ, CA, etc. by the hundreds of thousands.
I, personally, would be happy for my state, Tennessee, to secede right along with Texas. Neither state has an income tax (must drive all of you progressives to apoplexy). And here in Tennessee, Mr. Obama couldn’t carry but five counties. Not at all surprising in light of the fact that Mr. Gore couldn’t carry his “home” state either.
And you won’t even accept our moderate Democrats who have actual experience in solving problems. When Mr. Obama suggested that our Democratic governor, Phil Bredesen, be in charge of his health care initiative MoveOn.org and other liberal groups panned the idea to the point Obama dropped his consideration of Bredesen. This is despite the fact that Bredesen has many years of actual senior management experience in the health care industry As governor, he actually had to rein in an out-of-control public health care system here in Tennessee called TennCare that was consuming the state’s budget. He did so successfully. He has publicly opined in the Wall Street Journal that it is impossible to deliver universal health care equivalent in quality and services to that offered by private health policies at a tax (yes that’s how it will eventually be paid) level acceptable to the general U.S population. But do you want to listen to anyone with actual experience dealing with near universal health care? Of course not, because his opinion does not fit your desires, politics and agenda.
And our senator, Bob Corker, was the only member of the Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs Committee who would actually ask management and labor realistic, non-partisan questions about what the automobile industry was going to do with the government money to restructure themselves into viable entities. After all, he is probably the only member of that committee who has actually run a very large, multi-state business… But, how was he competent to ask those questions? After all, he is just a hick from Chattanooga, Tennessee?
April 16th, 2009 at 6:29 am
I see versions of this meme all the time:
“This guy is calling for less government, but just last week he asked the government to…”
So? The federal government taxes trillions of dollars from citizens of states. Are the states not supposed to pretty please ask if they can have some of it back?
April 16th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Why do all the folks on this blogs think all Southerners are illiterate, uneducated dunces?
Nobody said that on ‘this blogs’. It’s not a matter of intelligence or even education, entirely. It’s denial. It’s refusing to join arguments in an honest and rational way (for instance, setting up strawmen, like your ‘dunces’ one). It’s many Southerners’ persistent claims of rights, prerogatives, and financial support without the taking of concomitant responsibility for them, political and otherwise. I’m sick of it. The deep south consumes a lot more than it produces, and then complains about it. It’s adolescent.
BTW, the commenter who said that southern progressives often have more political cojones than others is absolutely right.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:57 am
92 comments and not one has pointed out the typo in the first sentence? Perry may have made a scene, but it was the type not SEEN in ages. Can’t believe no one has caught it.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Well Kerry – you’re making some pretty big presumtions there about what you get to keep.
1. You lose NASA. Say goodbye to those Federal jobs – they’re going away.
2. You lose the business of refining that gas – it goes to other states now.
3. You don’t get the US’s defense industry. Say goodbye to those Federal jobs
4. Oil - Wow. Good point. I guess we’ll have to buy oil from someone else.
5. Natural Gas. So I presume that the Texas plan is to turn the state into Saudi Arabia?
6. Computer Industry – I’m sorry but do you really thing that TI and other companies will be keeping their fat defense contracts? Sorry – but these jobs too will be going away.
7. Health Centers - And you’ll need them. But good luck keeping them going without all those federal funds.
8. We have enough colleges - As does Haiti, however I don’t see a lot of Haiti college grads getting jobs in the United States of America. So you can keep them there in the Republic of Texas.
9. We have a ready supply of workers. (Just open the border when we need some) – Oh yeah. This one will go over GRAND with the right wingers.
10. We have control of the paper industry, plastics, insurance, etc. No, you would have HAD control of those industries. Not after
11. In case of a foreign invasion, we have the Texas National Guard and the Texas Air National Guard. I’m sorry – but you don’t get to keep the tanks and planes and guns that the United States government paid for. Those go to the bases we’ll be building withing bombing range of Texas, just in case you right wingers with your pistols and AR-15’s piss us off.
12. We are totally self sufficient in beef, poultry, hogs and several types of grain, fruit and vegetables and lets not forget seafood from the gulf. And everybody down here knows how to cook them so that they taste good. Don’t need any food. You seem to be under the impression that we don’t want you to go.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:36 am
All this secessionist talk is entertaining but the Washington-based Texas observers and the blog commenters are missing the main point. Perry’s only engaging in this political theater to cement the far-right flank in his upcoming challenge for Governor from Kay Bailey. Expect more of this type of entertainment as the race heats up.
But please remember, despite what our current hack politicians say, about ~45% of us in Texas love our state and do not agree with anything Rush and Beck have to say.
Come visit Austin if you want proof.
April 16th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Re: They’ve an honest pride for Texas — a Republic before it agreed to join the Union
Um, so too was Vermont. Shall we ascribe to modern Vermonters superior virtues too?
And California. Yes, wicked, satan-worshipping California was the Bear Flag Republic before deigning to join the Union. Granted, it only lasted a month and was never officially recognized by other nations as such, but still …
All joking aside, Texans are right to be proud of their history, and tend to know it in jingoistic detail (I grew up in Texas in the shadow of the Alamo and so was likewise indoctrinated into the Cult of Alamo / Goliad / San Jacinto, although it’s amusing how much I “know” about Texas history which I’ve since found was gross misrepresentation of facts by other cult members). Still, to say that the fact that Texas was a functioning republic (albeit with a lot of US assistance due to the ongoing warm war with the Mexican government) for a decade in the 1800’s has any bearing on their self-sustenance in the 21st century is a bit of a stretch.
April 17th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
We have been down this road before, I thinh that was in 1861. as I recalled we won that fight.
April 17th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
No, this is an absolutely abominable idea. I love how people look at an electoral map, see this great big red state in the South, and then just assume that 99% of the population is wingnuts.
A recent Rasmussen poll showed that 75% of Texans OPPOSED secession. 44% of Texans voted for Barack Obama in the last election.
We’re not talking about a small handful of progressive Texans fleeing the new white heterosexual Christianist nation of Texas, we’re talking about a mass exodus of more than 15,000,000 human beings at once.
Do you think such a thing could transpire without MASSIVE economic turmoil for all parties involved, and ultimately, bloody violence and ethnic cleansing?
The refugee crisis caused by allowing Texas to secede from the Union would make Katrina look like a grade school field trip. It would be the biggest national tragedy in American history since the Civil War, and would make 9/11, Katrina, and Pearl Harbor seem very miniscule by comparison.
And to those of you who live way up in Massachusetts thinking this would have no impact on you whatsoever because Texas is geographically far away, here’s a proposition. Let’s shut down all of Detroit tomorrow. Nuke the entire auto industry. And then tell me you actually believe that won’t have any impact on you.
Thinking that the secession of Texas would be a fun, harmless exercise that would be nothing but beneficial for the rest of America is the most clueless, unfounded thing I have ever heard.
If we freely allow Texas to secede (which the overwhelming majority of Texans DO NOT WANT), how long until far more conservative states start to say they want to go, too? Alaska, Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, Oklahoma, Alabama, Missippi, Louisiana, Kentucky, and Tennessee are all more conservative than Texas.
So do we let them leave, too?
And then how about the fantastic border wars that break out all over the place, hundreds of thousands of dead citizens everywhere?
Yeah, that would be so awesome.
That this is even being talked about as a slightly rational idea is mind-blowingly stupid.
Rick Perry and his racist teabagging minions do not speak for the people of Texas.
April 18th, 2009 at 9:18 am
I find this idea that the civil war was not about slavery to be truly comical. The constitution that the confederacy came up with differed from the US constitution in only one way, it strongly codified slavery.
The idea that the civil war was about states rights vs. federal power is also a bunch of revisionist history for ignorant people. The Slave states were huge fans and beneficiaries of Federal power, primarily in the form of the fugitive slave act. The slave states loved federal power as long as it was in the service of slavery.
The first time the US Supreme court told the Federal government if was oversteping it’s bounds in favor of a stronger states power was after the civil war when those same federal powers were applied to protect ex-slaves during reconstruction. After years of using the federal power as it’s slave keeper (quite literaly) the southern states were very upset to see that same federal power used to try to protect ex-slaves.
The civil war was about slavery. Cry all you want but the facts stand. States rights was an excuse made up after the fact.
April 18th, 2009 at 11:49 am
[...] at all. And about 20 or so fewer wingnuts in the House of Representatives. And Matt Yglesias co-signs: … if Texas wants to leave the union we should probably just let them go and I’d say the [...]
April 18th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Mr. Yglesias, with all due respect, I don’t think you’ve really thought this all through very well. A secession of Texas or indeed of any state of the union would be a horrifically dangerous, expensive, destabilizing, and deadly proposition for our entire nation and probably the North-American continent. There are reasons that Lincoln demanded that the territorial and political integrity of the union remained intact that go far beyond greed.
It may be enjoyable to speculate about the political benefits that you believe may derive from a secession of Texas. But consider what else would likely happen. First of all, what would the approximately 40% of Texans who voted for Obama do? We in the rest of the US could find ourselves facing a huge refugee crisis, and needing to absorb literally million of displaced people. This probably would not be done very well, if the experience of Hurricane Katrina is anything to judge by. (And, don’t forget, there would probably be conservative refugees trying to flee into Texas too.) It seems to me that both of the newly created nation-states would find themselves in more precarious strategic positions in North America. There would probably be a surprisingly huge enconomic loss, as Greg Hanigan in #95 described of Texas. It seems to me that the rest of the states would lose something too, as we would have less oil, and probably other things. If Texas seceeded, it is quite possible that the even more conservative states of Oklahoma, and others might catch secession fever and try to leave as well. This could only lead to utter chaos, to put it in the best possible light.
You’d like to see the annoyingly irrational, backward conservatives out of your political world. Well, so would I sometimes. But allowing a whole state to seceed is in essence putting a wall between you and your contrymen, and saying that you’re no longer of the same body. First, on a philosophical level, progressivism doesn’t thrive on this kind us-versus-them type of thinking. Conservatism does, nativism does. To accept the frame that we’re better when separated by a national border from those who differ from us culturally is to lose a philosophical battle to the tribalism of the right wing. Second, in my opinion that saying, “Keep your freinds close, but keep your enemies closer” has merit. Our public is already separated by the ‘culture war’ at a level that’s dangerous. How much worse would it get if, instead of being in direct contact with each other, and being forced to consider each other’s points of view whether we like it or not, we sequestered ourselves inside of two different nation-states. Our current dangerous level of social fragmentation could become totally irreconcilable.
This issue may seem absurd, or silly, or an opportunity to vent. And it is, all of those things, I admit. But people should realize that seemingly impossible things can in fact happen given time and the vicissitudes of governance. Progressives, please consider that this joke is a lot less funny that it seems at first blush. And conservatives, please consider that a secession of Texas could damage its people in ways that aren’t immediately obvious.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
[...] Notice that Perry doesn’t actually mention secession; others have been happy to do that for him. In the meantime, this leads everyone (the press, bloggers, your dinner guests) to cry Civil War, setting up any discussion of the issue in terms of the 1860s. [...]