Ross Douthat: The College Years
Over at Campus Progress, Dylan Matthews and Jesse Singal revisit Ross Douthat’s college-era writing for the Crimson and the Salient. I remember reading Ross’s stuff in college, though I didn’t know him personally back then. But until I clicked over, I forgot the most important part—back then he was a really impressive prose stylist, but hadn’t yet developed his appealing Red Tory side. Instead, it’s the same far-right views on culture you know today basically uncut by any heterodoxy on anything. And of course at the time he, like me, had views on Iraq that in retrospect were totally wrong and absurd.
He also thought that too many Asian-Americans are “weird” which, considering how powerful the human rights in China lobby has become these days, should get him in hot water real fast.
58 Responses to “Ross Douthat: The College Years”
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March 12th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
The article I remember Ross from during his time writing at Harvard is this one on missing Bill Clinton.
March 12th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
He used a Munich analogy about Bush apologizing for the Chinese fighter. That’s about as 100% Weekly Standard wingnut as you can get.
Of course the powers that be have stifled him.
March 12th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Today, the Internet and DirecTV are normalizing everything, from group sex to bestiality to darker things that decency forbids mentioning.
Wow, I’m really not making use of my DirecTV properly.
Seriously, though, I really don’t think anyone should be held accountable for stupid stuff they wrote/did in college. That’s what college is for.
Douthat is indeed a good writer and a smart guy. The thing I don’t like is that he’s just so damn serious all the time. Anytime there’s humor in his writing it feels forced. I suppose that’s a feature, not a bug, to the NYT.
March 12th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
I remember reading Ross in college too, and how frustrating he was to many of my left-wing friends, because the quality of his columns was so much higher than that of his Crimson colleagues. Look forward to reading him in the Times.
March 12th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
Isn’t the most important thing about Ross’s “college years” that he claimed to not have learned anything at all at Harvard, and that this was what first made him a conservative darling? (He clearly didn’t learn how to read a course schedule since it turned out many classes he said were not taught at Harvard regularly were taught there.) Really, this should have finished his career, not started it. I hope people will ask him forever if he really learned nothing at Harvard, and if so, doesn’t that mark him as either a jack-ass or a moron?
March 12th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
I think it’s time to stop using ‘Asian-American’ solely for those who live in China, Japan or South East Asia. It’s an annoying tradition that insults geography as well other Asians.
Is it so hard to just say ‘Chinese’?
March 12th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
I think it’s time to stop using ‘Asian-American’ solely for those who live in China
huh? Asian-Americans are Americans who are ethnically Asian. They aren’t Chinese or any other nationality. They are American.
If you are talking about Chinese expats who live in the US, then, sure, call them Chinese.
March 12th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
He also thought that too many Asian-Americans are “weird”
Really?? The article that puts this in context is here.
March 12th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
He also thought that too many Asian-Americans are “weird” which, considering how powerful the human rights in China lobby has become these days, should get him in hot water real fast.
If you bothered to read the article, it’s mocking political correctness, not really making a claim about Asians.
But Harvard’ math-and-science Asians are pretty weird. As are Harvard math-and-science types of all ethnicities.
March 12th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Hey, I resemble that remark!
March 12th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
So this douchebag thinks there is something wrong with being a math and science person?
March 12th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Douthat complained that Harvard doesn’t provide a rigorous education to its students, but merely grooms them to become the next generation of elites. Is he right? I dunno, I hear there are kids who come right out of Harvard and immediately become nationally-recognized political pundits*. I can’t think of a career path that depends less on rigor and more on connections. So I guess he knows how to both show and tell.
*(No offense, Yglesias.)
March 12th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
So this douchebag thinks there is something wrong with being a math and science person?
Only if you’re Asian.
(I kid, I kid, and if I did mean it that would be unfair of me. As far as I know there’s no reason to think he’s racist against Asian people.)
Is it so hard to just say ‘Chinese’?
It is if you’re talking about people in Japan or southeast Asia…
March 12th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
u really think this guy is a really impressive prose stylist – is that just the standard tongue bathing for yr ol colleague and school chum – he seems mostly concerned w/parsing tiny moral fancies thatre compelling to i hav no idea who – his writing is like half composed of of busy worrying that one side of his equation wont match the other – tho i can see how a yglesias might get into that – 1st thought upon hearing the announcement was douthat doesnt hav the simple big idea chops for the job and hes destined to be one of those herbert/kristof types no one reads
anyhow lol nytimes good job getting another ineffectual republican nerdo everyone can pat on the head for being so reasonable – this no doubt will be their model going forward
sullivan wouldve been way more fun obv
March 12th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
“And of course at the time he, like me, had views on Iraq that in retrospect were totally wrong and absurd..
Nothing predictable about that war being built on a pack lies.
March 12th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Noah, that article is stunning. Do you think he has realized the irony (ah, irony!) of it yet?
March 12th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Wow, in the full context of that article Douthat really comes across as an asshole. Stereotype a bunch of groups, use the ‘political correctness’ canard to excuse being a jerk when you know better (which is of course the only thing evocations of ‘political correctness’ do), and finish up with some fine whine about how right-wingers are the only real victims, all in Woosterian prose to make S.G. Myles blush — so charming! I do think that having been in college gives him an excuse for writing such stupid shit, but man, does he need it.
March 12th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
So do his articles still reflect the intense love he seems to have for the sound of his own voice?
March 12th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
I hope people will ask him forever if he really learned nothing at Harvard, and if so, doesn’t that mark him as either a jack-ass or a moron?
I taught him for a semester in (I’m pretty sure) his freshman year. He certainly came across as someone who believed he had nothing to learn from Harvard.
Didn’t strike me as a moron, though. Hard to say whether he was a jack-ass — he didn’t stand out in this regard, but then my point of comparison was the rest of the Harvard undergrad population.
March 12th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
he has a point abt harvard existing mostly to train elites for elitehood – its a particular education – he prob shouldve known that going in
March 12th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
I think now that douthat has reached the mainstream he has a pretty serious shot at the “worst hair ever” category of our national pundits. Mike Murphy better watch out because the brown helmet is comin to git im.
March 12th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Technically, it wasn’t the Chinese human rights lobby that got Freeman in trouble. It was the all-powerful Tibetan lobby. As long as Douthat stays clear of Tibet, he should be fine.
March 12th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
For the full picture of what a pathetic bootlicking wanna-be Young Ross was take the time to read this account of him getting naked with William F. Buckley:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200802u/douthat-buckley
March 12th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Moe Larry and Jesus,
Why this obsession with Douthat? What’s your game, here? Some bad choices regarding who he links on his blog, do not a racist make. Who doesn’t make some bad choices in their mid-20s?
March 12th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Yes, MoeLarryAndJesus, why did you bring up Ross Douthat out of nowhere? You ruined a perfectly good thread with your off-topic ramblings and links.
March 12th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Ted, I think Matt is being snarky about the Israel lobby getting all hot and bothered about Freeman’s views on China. I mean Israel has had Gaza under an inhumane, brutal blockade for a while now, after the incursion into Gaza which killed like 1,300. The official death toll according to the Chinese government for Tianamen was 200 to 300. (No comparison! but Chinese student associations and the Chinese Red Cross reported 2,000 to 3,000 deaths. Sort of a disceprancy there.)
Douthat has his work cut out for him with the Republican party in full inner core meltdown. I don’t envy the guy.
And of course at the time he, like me, had views on Iraq that in retrospect were totally wrong and absurd.
If you two were wrong then maybe you’re wrong now too???
I just don’t see how getting rid of a warmongering dictator is so bad. I mean during the Cold War conservatives would argue on behalf of dictators b/c the alternative was worse, i.e. communist takeover (or so they’d argue.) Now the Cold War is over. Dictators are preferable to chaos? That’s what dictators and their supporeters always argue. They’re the “lesser evil” they say. Maybe some of us are a little too Rorschachian.
March 12th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Wow. Impressive prose stylist? You need to read some Swift, Twain, Menkin, Camus, Orwell, etc. to see what a well written political essay is. Hendrick Hertzberg is a blogger who is an impressive prose stylist.
Douthat’s bland racism, sexism born of impotence and rejection, hypocracy, innumeracy, superficiality, and his mix of arrogance and pious genuflection is unremarkable for a consevative–pundit or otherwise. If I were interested in fetishistic papism, I’d watch a Bunuel film. Hearing his mediocre qualities praised and his deviancies valorized is bad enough–”sure hes’ a douchebag, but he might be less crazy than Andrew Sullivan!”–but portraying him as some sort of master prose stylist? That’s offensive, Matt, even coming from you.
March 12th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Client 11,
Of course Douthat is racist and sexist. Whatever you say.
On a more serious note, I’m thrilled about this selection, as I feel Douthat will do a great job of setting forth the gospel of life, and helping to build a culture of life, and to counter the sexual nihilism that today’s hipster crowd endorses.
March 12th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Hector, you are my favorite troll on the internet. I’m honored you tried to troll me.
fyi, I’m an atheist, but my favorite saint is Saint Augustine.
March 12th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
ooo hipster sexual nihilism v tasty rawr
March 12th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
I will second Matt’s compliments for Douthat’s prose style. Those excerpts were good. Of course, it’s easier to be stylish when you’re being a dick. Douthat really captured the essence of college Republican dickery in those excerpts. But he grew up. I also agree with too many steves that it’s unfair to hold someone’s college writing against them. We’re pretty much all idiots then, in our own way.
March 12th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
I feel Douthat will do a great job of setting forth the gospel of life, and helping to build a culture of life, and to counter the sexual nihilism that today’s hipster crowd endorses.
What is sexual nihilism? Sounds kinky.
March 12th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Ross, as I remember him from college, was the type of conservative who seemed to be so mostly so that he could piss off his liberal friends. He was contrary for the sake of being contrary. Thankfully, I think that he’s matured beyond that point – the disaster of the Bush years had something to do with this, I believe. He’ll be a good addition to the NY Times.
March 12th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Pedro,
‘Sexual nihilism’ is the view that any voluntary or commercial sexual act between consenting partners- whatever their gender, species, relationship status, future plans, or thoughts about each other and about the nature of sexuality- is morally licit, to be encouraged, and has no more inherent purpose or meaning than the participants choose to give it. And that pleasure is the ultimate good and purpose of the sex act.
Does this describe you, or people you know?
March 12th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
im trying to get more sex, for me and my friends
March 12th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
You know when the nihilists are yelling, “I fuck you in the ass, Lebowski! I fuck you!” Maybe that’s sexual nihilism.
March 12th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Oh, and regarding Ross’s column on Asian-Americans being “weird,” I’m almost positive this was in reference to one of the more absurd kerfluffles at Harvard.
Basically, once upon a time, there was a student-written comic strip entitled “The Misanthropic Mr. Chu.” Mr. Chu was a Chinese-American student who concentrated in math and was, as the title suggests, quite misanthropic. The author of said comic strip was listed as Andrew Burgess (I think). Then an Asian student wrote a letter to the editor haranguing the comic for reinforcing negative stereotypes about Harvard Asian students – that they only like math and science and are anti-social. This started a giant controversy which was complicated by the fact that the comic strip was actually written by two people – Andrew Haiwen Chu and Alex Burgess (apologies if I’ve misremembered the names). Mr. Chu the character was basically an autobiographical respresentation of Haiwen. After large amounts of shouting on all sides, the authors changed the name of the character to Mr. Whitman – they contended that the race of the character was mostly irrelevant to the comic and chosen only because, you know, Haiwen is Chinese-American. And then the comic got weird and bad, but that’s a different story.
In other words, Ross’s column makes little to no sense eight years later unless you happen to know about this particular context.
March 12th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Too Many Steves,
If you dislike the term ’sexual nihilism’ for the creed whose tenets I briefly outlined above, then please provide an alternative. Will anyone like to defend the tenets of sexual nihilism?
March 12th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
I know this is tawdry and unworthy of me but:
Did Bill jump or was he pushed?
March 12th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
I wonder if we can expect more hard hitting commentary from ross, like this http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/06/in_defense_of_circumcision.php where he describes how his circumcised penis still takes pleasure from sex, thank you very much!
March 12th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
wow. He was an even bigger asshole back then.
March 12th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
One of my more annoying discoveries while taking a couple of classes in Harvard Yard was that a lot of Harvard students respond to and relied on perverse incentives. There were substantial rewards in the form of grades and teachers’ favor for being contrarian in a clever way, for taking up the bad or contrarian side of an issue and making ingenious but poorly based or deceptively warranted arguments for it. This quickly corrupted the more average students- in the sense that they lost interest in what the worthy side was and worried mostly which one was rewarded by the instructor, who was usually biased, and which side was in effect punished. Not that this was necessarily the norm the norm in teaching, but it didn’t take many courses run by these rules for students to adapt.
Douthat is a painfully familiar Harvard character in that sense. It ultimately reflects the Willis Carto principle: the easy and big money for second and third rate intellectuals lies in catering to the old cranks, in embracing lost causes.
March 12th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
One of my more annoying discoveries while taking a couple of classes in Harvard Yard was that a lot of Harvard students respond to and relied on perverse incentives. There were substantial rewards in the form of grades and teachers’ favor for being contrarian in a clever way, for taking up the bad or contrarian side of an issue and making ingenious but poorly based or deceptively warranted arguments for it.
Watch the History Boys, the entire play’s based on that unfortunate trend in scholarship.
March 12th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Re: There were substantial rewards in the form of grades and teachers’ favor for being contrarian in a clever way, for taking up the bad or contrarian side of an issue and making ingenious but poorly based or deceptively warranted arguments for it.
Yes, that’s how I suppose Judith Jarvis Thomsen’s infamous paper was originally intended. Unfortunately, some bright boys on the supreme court took it seriously (hard to believe how) and the rest is history. The history of 50 million butchered lives, that is.
March 12th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
hrf, thank you for adding some much needed (and obviously missing) context from the article.
March 12th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
Safire was more than a “prose stylist” (a moniker that could be applied more accurately to any of the several most talented kids in any given state university writing course); he was a bright, quirky man – a really good writer – that had some genuine life experience, and just enough to say that some people (I knew them) subscribed to the Times almost only to read him (and the movie listings).
This is a period of decline for the paper.
March 12th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
Hector asks: “What’s your game, here? Some bad choices regarding who he links on his blog, do not a racist make. Who doesn’t make some bad choices in their mid-20s?”
Why do you give a fat flying fuck, Hector? You just like Douchehat because he shares your fetish for the fetus. You’ll forgive people for a little fault like racism as long as they dribble and drool over the tragic loss of blastocysts.
I thought of you when Obama overturned Dumbya’s asinine stem cell research policy. I’m glad he did it because of all the human misery that research may eliminate. You probably mourned because a gram of snot in a petri dish is more important to you than actual human beings are.
Which is probably why you’re still a virgin.
March 13th, 2009 at 2:08 am
Yes, that’s how I suppose Judith Jarvis Thompson’s infamous paper was originally intended. Unfortunately, some bright boys on the supreme court took it seriously (hard to believe how) and the rest is history. The history of 50 million butchered lives, that is.
I am personally not persuaded that paper formulates the central issue in abortion correctly, but the particular problem it addresses it gets right….
The reason your side of the argument is losing as time goes on is because it cannot make a convincing proper case. Go ahead and give it your personal best shot sometime, “Hector”, even if just for yourself, and see what you come up with.
Every argument that claims a zygote or such is a proper human life, has a soul, etc. relies on some claim to certain knowledge that is occultic in basis. That is to say: the means of obtaining evidence and/or the evidence obtained are defective and insufficient. They can’t warrant the conclusion they are pretended to warrant.
And just where is your compassion for 50 million cancer tumors?
Then, of course, there is Numbers 5 to demonstrate that abortions were at least in part permitted by the Bible.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Moe Larry and Jesus,
I was troubled, yes, at the stem cell decision. I’m not convinced that personhood and ensoulment begins precisely at conception….implantation strikes me as a more meaningful benchmark for the beginning of life. Nevertheless, I think that as long as there is doubt on the matter, we should err on the side of caution, and we should assuredly be careful not to butcher potential human beings for spare parts. That way lies cannibalism.
I disagree with Mr. Douthat on many issues, but he has been a doughty fighter against the culture of death and against the sexual nihilism of our time.
March 13th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Hector again: “I disagree with Mr. Douthat on many issues, but he has been a doughty fighter against the culture of death and against the sexual nihilism of our time.”
He hasn’t fought anything except poor black women, Hector. As far as you know Douthat spends all of his extra money on tranny whores. The members of the “family values” party are prone to that sort of thing.
You should shut up sex because you know nothing about it, Hector. If you’d actually had a mature sexual relationship you’d know there’s nothing “nihilistic” about it. But you haven’t, so you sound like the nerd in the punch bowl. Grow up.
March 13th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Also: if you’re going to write irritable comments on someone’s blog about some newspaper you don’t subscribe to and have no particular intention of subscribing to hiring a new right-wing columnist because your stuffed grape leaves didn’t seem to be turning out you should wait until you’ve assembled and cooked them in the stock, lemon juice, and olive oil; the filling – unlike other fillings – may seem not to taste good and the rice may seem too hard but all that changes in the last part of making them.
March 13th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Moe,
Do you agree with the tenets of the creed outlined below?
Re: ‘Sexual nihilism’ is the view that any voluntary or commercial sexual act between consenting partners- whatever their gender, species, relationship status, future plans, or thoughts about each other and about the nature of sexuality- is morally licit, to be encouraged, and has no more inherent purpose or meaning than the participants choose to give it. And that pleasure is the ultimate good and purpose of the sex act.
If not, then you’re not a sexual nihilist. Regarding race, did it ever occur to you that in the infamous ‘welfare queen’ thread, I accused Ross of being uncharitable and un-Christian? I’m not a movement conservative, Moe, and I oppose the excesses of the Republicans with the same contempt that I oppose the excesses of the culture of death.
March 13th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
hrf #37:
Your story about the Mr. Chu comic strip does a good job of providing context to Ross’s opinion piece linked in comment #8. The other bit of context was that in March 2001, the Crimson published an op-ed by an Asian American male student entitled “The Invasian”, where he called out Asian American boys on campus as being wimpy, and Asian American girls as being slutty (basically). He also wrote that Asians in general are nerdy and self-segregate too much. Anyway, a bunch of students launched a protest march, and the Crimson editors apologized, and deleted the article from their website! You cannot find the original article in the Crimson’s online archives now, although you can find some angry letters about it.
March 13th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Hector asks: “Moe,
Do you agree with the tenets of the creed outlined below?
Re: ‘Sexual nihilism’ is the view that any voluntary or commercial sexual act between consenting partners- whatever their gender, species, relationship status, future plans, or thoughts about each other and about the nature of sexuality- is morally licit, to be encouraged, and has no more inherent purpose or meaning than the participants choose to give it. And that pleasure is the ultimate good and purpose of the sex act.”
Well, no, Hector, I don’t agree with it. And I don’t know anyone who does. But I worry about weird little virgins like you who spend so much of their lives hectoring other people about what they do wih their genitals. I think your obsession marks you as a bit of a voyeuristic pervert, Hector. I don’t think you have a healthy outlook on sexuality – and so I guess it’s a good thing you’re still a virgin.
March 15th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
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March 21st, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Interesting post. If you don’t mind my asking, where do you gather most of your information before forming an opinion?
March 27th, 2009 at 1:09 am
Any chance you could send me your email I would like to ask you a couple of things aobut this?
April 20th, 2009 at 10:45 am
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