Baseball Fans, Perennially Losing Their Innocence
Can I say that as someone who doesn’t really follow baseball, I’ve been pretty surprised at all the gnashing of teeth over the revelation that Alex Rodriguez was using steroids back during the period when Major League Baseball had no real testing and sanctions policy for steroids. Haven’t we reached the point where we should just assume that back then all the players were using something? After all, what kind of big-time baseball star would willingly eschew a performance-enhancing substance whose use was widespread among his teammates and competitors and which there was no serious policy in place to prevent? It would have to be someone who wasn’t taking his baseball skills all that seriously.
At the end of the day, simply accepting this reality would, I think, wind up doing a lot to make people feel better about the game. The steroid era was an unfortunate episode, driven by bad policy decisions. But that’s what it was—the sports drug policy made near-universal use of performance enhancing substances essentially inevitable. There’s no reason to look on what players did during that period as grave personal ethical failings—they were following the logic of the system. It was a bad logic of a bad system, and that’s why change was necessary.
80 Responses to “Baseball Fans, Perennially Losing Their Innocence”
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February 9th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
My suggestion is to get rid of home runs altogether — make a ball hit over the fence a foul ball (keep the ground rule double rule), and get back to some more interesting small ball.
February 9th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
The steroid era was an unfortunate episode
Wow. Wow. Are you that naive? Pretty much every top athlete can be suspected of using the latest performance-enhancing drugs, in almost every sport. For example, I am sure Phelps took something else than marijuana to get his 100 medals.
February 9th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
But that’s what it was—the sports drug policy made near-universal use of performance enhancing substances essentially inevitable.
Well, I think this brings up the key point: just how widespread was steroid use? Were 20% of the players taking them? 40%? 90% If the number is sufficiently low, then we can’t really call it “near-universal.” I frankly have no idea either way, although I suspect lots of the top sluggers (and some of the pitchers, too) of the late 90s and early 00s were users.
February 9th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Clearly this is something Congress should look into right now. Suspend the economic crisis stuff and hold more hearings.
February 9th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
For example, I am sure Phelps took something else than marijuana to get his 100 medals.
If you’re truly sure, you ought to cash in your evidence; there’s gotta be a six figure check waiting for you.
February 9th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
But then sports writers would not be able to pass judgment from their high horses.
Also, I wonder if bdbd has ever watched a baseball game, or if Why oh why knows that Phelps subjected himself to extra drug tests.
February 9th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Well, it’s more the sports media that’s all shocked by this. Every fan I know was utterly unsurprised. It’s not unlike the political media in that it’s really really stupid.
February 9th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Clearly this is something Congress should look into right now.
And I know just the perfect senator from Arizona to personally take charge.
February 9th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Those who use the past tense when speaking of the era of performance enhancing drugs in baseball (or any sport) are being awfully naive. Half-way sophisticated drug users will always stay one step ahead of the tests.
February 9th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
My suggestion is to get rid of home runs altogether — make a ball hit over the fence a foul ball (keep the ground rule double rule), and get back to some more interesting small ball.
Yes, it’s a well-known fact that baseball fans hate home runs.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
After all, what kind of big-time baseball star would willingly eschew a performance-enhancing substance whose use was widespread among his teammates and competitors and which there was no serious policy in place to prevent?
Cal Ripken, Jr, that’s who….
February 9th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Cal Ripken, Jr, that’s who…
Ripken would have been stupid to take roids: makes muscle tears more likely. He didn’t need big numbers. He just needed to avoid injury.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Half-way sophisticated drug users will always stay one step ahead of the tests.
How do you know this?
February 9th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Well said. It is as simple as that.
For a related analogy, consider all the pitchers who threw spitballs, when spitballs were legal before Carl Mays killed Ben Chapman in 1920.
Were all the spitballers “dirty” before that? Of course not.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
A lot of the gnashing is from those who blamed all the ills of baseball on Barry Bonds.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Haven’t we reached the point where we should just assume that back then all the players were using something?
Proposal for reality show: MY is locked in a room with Curt Schilling to explain why Schilling should be OK with his kids believing he took steroids back in the day. Schilling would rip out a chunk of his own bad shoulder and try to strangle MY with it. Joe Rogan could host.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
alkali:
Do you want to bet your house on Schilling of all people not having been roiding?
I’ll take that bet.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
55, I’ve watched many a baseball game, and think home runs are utterly uninteresting. But if baseball fans love homeruns, as too many suggests, then perhaps steroids should be issued along with the other equipment. That might turn the game into something the 55s and too manys can appreciate even more.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Here’s Schilling himself on the subject – “”We can’t be shocked by any names, any more,” Schilling said in his blog.”
Indeed.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
See King Kaufman.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I didn’t mean to suggest that more home runs is always better. But yes, the optimal number of home runs for exciting baseball is more than zero. Is bdbd a time traveller from 1911? That Babe Ruth ruined everything!
February 9th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
I think the shock over A-Rod has to do with the idea that it was A-Rod who would be the cleanser of the baseball record books. Once Bonds was going to/had broken all the home run records, people (espicially media people) starting saying “hey, A-Rod is on pace to beat Bonds! Man, won’t it be nice when he does and we have an untainted champion?” I agree that this was a bit naive, but I understand the sentiment. Now, people are just loudly reacting to the fact that the Great Clean Hope is now dirty. I think (and I can’t prove this) that most baseball players aren’t in that category now. (The ones left are probably Manny Rameriez and Derek Jeter.) This happens when a “clean” player is proven to be dirty after all.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
My suggestion is to get rid of home runs altogether — make a ball hit over the fence a foul ball (keep the ground rule double rule), and get back to some more interesting small ball.
I had no idea Ozzie Guillen read this blog.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
@Armando: Schilling also says in that same blog post –
And before anyone asks, I’ll make it clear: My name will not appear on any lists of positive tests. I’ve never tested positive for steroids or HGH, and I’ve never taken steroids or HGH in my life, ever. You don’t need to call the union, or an agent to verify that.
I am not the world’s biggest Curt Schilling fan, although I suppose I am one of those who would complete the sentence “Curt Schilling is a loudmouth …” with “amusingly so” rather than “and a d-bag.”
In any event, my point is not that Schilling in particular was necessarily clean (although I’d bet that he probably was) but that it is unlikely that baseball players of the late 90s and early 00s would be universally willing to agree that “everyone did that back then.”
February 9th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
I remember when Shawne Merriman of the San Diego Chargers got a suspension for roids and was hounded out of the game.. no wait.. he was villified and remains so.. no that’s not right… hundreds of columnists wrote about it… no not right either
Oh yeah! He won the NFL’s Outstanding Defensive Player award the same season.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
By and large Matt’s assessment is correct. But he does not properly account for all of the incentives that professional baseball players face.
1.) There is the disincentive of public relations problems.
2.) There are historical disincentives. If one wanted to be considered the greatest of all-time, then an apples to apples comparison is necessary. This alone may be a public or private incentive structure.
3.) There is a health incentive. It is widely known that former MVP Ken Caminiti died from complications from an enlarged heart, caused by none other than steroids (although the exact cause of death is unknown). So, it is not unreasonable that many athletes act upon the incentive for long-term health.
4.) Illegality. The most obvious of incentives. There could be civil and criminal punishment, albeit “sports world” punishment which is not quite the same as the real world.
5.) Familial incentive. Dad’s do not want to set a bad example for their children, and probably do not want to sexual side effects that come with many performance enhancers.
So, again it makes good sense for many players to have used performance enhancers, but Matt’s analysis of the social and competitive incentives (and lack of disincentives) is far from complete.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
@Ryan: By and large, those same disincentives exist for the general public with regard to drug use. Yet a substantial portion of the population continues to use drugs.
One incentive for using drugs that does not exist in the general population is that they can help elite athletes earn boatloads of money.
February 9th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
@ Ryan – Yup, easy to see how all those things de-incentivized Rocket Roger Clemens and barry Bonds.
In fact, elite athletes perhaps more than any others in our society (except maybe high-ranking republicans) spend their hours and lives in denial about their invulnerabilities. It probably has something to do with achieving the levels of excellence that they do.
February 9th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
There’s always been a culture of cheating in baseball. Look at how many known spitball pitchers have been elected to the Hall of Fame since the spitter was “banned,” just for one example. A-Rod, Bonds and the others got caught in a paradigm shift – juicing, which had once been treated like throwing a spitball, was all of a sudden taken seriously for PR reasons.
Until Bud Selig and his minions start to take heat for their role in enabling the steroid era instead of being allowed to pretend they had no idea what was going on, this looks like just another case of union busting to me.
February 9th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
The only baseball player I still believe in is Albert Pujols.
Come on guys. Deprive me of my innocence.
February 9th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
“Sports fan” is really just a name for a special kind of stupid.
February 9th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
The owners have to be in there somewhere too. They all saw what the home run race(s) were bringing in and were more than happy to turn a blind eye. Neither side wanted to admit the true nature of the Emperor’s clothes.
February 9th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
The steroid stuff annoys the shit out of me. On the one hand, the body of evidence, namely attendance, clearly shows that the effects of steroids and changes made the increase offensive production have been met with enthusiasm from fans. On the other hand, there’s only a certain segment of PED’s people get concerned about, and with very dubious reasoing. Yes, steroids are bad for you, but so is overusing cortisone so that you can continue to play football or some other rigorous physical sport through an injury that would render you unable to stand the pain without significant chemical assistance. And if baseball players using steroids sets a bad example for kids, certainly a culture that gives the impression that you’re a collosal wimp if you don’t play through a severe injury that results in excruciating pain to high school athletes is quite a bit more dangerous, given that they’re much more likely to suffer some sort of painful injury than they are to be able to get their hands on substantial quantites of anabolic steroids or human growth hormone.
Ultimately what the PED debate boils down to is another avenue for most sports fans to convince themselves they were cheated out of a career in professional athletics. If they were just taller, didn’t have a bad back, or if everyone else wasn’t cheating, they’d be getting paid a lot of money to play baseball too.
February 9th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
I’m a lifelong baseball fan. I prefer a good pitcher’s duel and small ball to homeruns, but I wouldn’t go so far as to make a homerun a foul ball.
I long for the days when guys like Ryne Sandberg led the league in homeruns with 40.
February 9th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
There is an appropriate punishment for all involved:
Ban A-rod for life. Make Steinbrenner keep paying him.
February 9th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Or we could just stop all of this hand-wringing altogether and accept that sports are inherently unfair, and that’s why we enjoy idolizing the best. Matthew could work out for the rest of his life and never play D3 ball. It’s not like sports are a meritocracy. These guys didn’t earn it, in the sense that they had to labor harder than others who wanted it equally as much; they’re just freaks of nature.
February 9th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
It’s pretty clear that Frank Thomas was clean. Joe Posnanski had a good post on this over the weekend.
One thing about Thomas that is different from so many players these days is that he declined in his thirties. That used to be the way of things–players hit their prime in their late 20s and then declined. They didn’t put up monster numbers in their late 30s. Pitchers and hitters both USED to decline.
I know that we’re supposed to believe that it’s better training, training in the offseason, etc. But seeing what players are able to do physically at 38 or 39 today–probably not just diet and clean livin’.
February 9th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
I call BullSh*t on dubois.
Babe Ruth (6′2, 215 lbs) was a monster of a man by the standard of his era. So was Jimmie Foxx. So was Walter Johnson.
Going earlier, the most dominant player of the first decade of the 1900’s was Honus Wagner. Wagner was a giant of man for his time at 5′11 and 200 lbs.
Going earlier, the batting champ in 1888 was Cap Anson…6′0 and 227 lbs. If he slid into second, you know the second baseman was running for his life for fear of being crushed.
In 1889, Dan Brouthers won the batting title, 6′2, 207.
Well, Cap may have been a bit more careful if he was sliding into Second baseman Nap Lajoie. He was almost as big as Honus Wagner at 6′1 and 195 lbs.
Catcher Ernie Lombardi, who’s nickname (I think) was the Schnoz, was 6′3, 230 lbs.
On the pitching side, well pitchers have never been small.
Cy Young was 6′2, 210 lbs. Christy Mathewson was 6′2, 195. Walter Johnson was 6′1, 200 lbs. Hippo Vaughn was 6′4 215 lbs. Lefty Grove came in at 6′3, 190 lbs. Dazzy Vance 6′2, 200lbs.
There were little guys back then, too, and there are today. There are second basemen who barely clock 170 lbs. Pedro Martinez dominated and only weighed in at 185. Roger Clemens is the same size as Hippo Vaughn. Jason Schmidt is 6′5, 185. Tall, but skinny.
Brute force has always been more important than quick reflexes. Prior to the home run era and the changes brought by Ruth and Gehrig and company, players hit for doubles and triples rather than homers. Ty Cobb said it best himself. He could hit home runs, but he didn’t like them. He thought it was a negative thing somehow (Read his autobiography).
Steroids may be new-ish to baseball, especially compared to other sports, but baseball players have a long history of trying to find a way to one-up the opponent, whether by greasing the ball (for pitchers), manipulating the mound height (Sandy Koufax comes to mind – no mound higher than Dodger Stadium’s back then), or corking bats, or stealing signs, or spiking the 2nd baseman or shortstop when sliding into second. Or by popping greenies and other stimulants believing they’d make you see the ball better and hit better, especially when night games first started up.
February 9th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
And monster numbers in their late 30’s? Ty Cobb hit 378, with 31 doubles, 12 triples, 12 home runs, and 102 RBI’s when he was 38.
He hit 357 and still had 44 extra base hits when he was 40.
At 36, Walter Johnson went 23-7, pitching 278 innings, with a 2.72 ERA.
Cy Young won 21 fames, pitched 299 innings, and clocked a 1.26 era…when he was 41.
Cap Anson hit 335 with 23 doubles, 6 triples, and 2 homers when he was 43. In limited duty in 1894, at the age of 42, he hit 388. (340 at bats)
February 9th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
How do you know this?
This question should be asked every time anyone says anything about sports and drug use. Every asshole thinks he’s the world’s biggest expert on the subject, and “knows” that Michael Phelps must be on something, that Ryan Howard is juicing, etc.
February 9th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Ooooo, and Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb didn’t play against hispanics or blacks. So, since the top 2/3 of the talent pool was shut out, I’d call their competition minor league.
Weight training changed baseball more than steroids, which is just an outgrowth of weight training.
February 9th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
The game rewarded daring and reflexes rather than brute force. Steroids eliminated all that.
Ahahahahahaha, no.
February 9th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Who the hell cares? These are grown men with vast financial resources. Let them take whatever they want and face the physical consequences. If a guy wants to shoot for 100 home runs in a season and drop dead at age 30, how is that my business?
The idea that baseball records were totally reliable until yucky old steroids came into use is ridiculous. The game has always changed. The live ball, the dimensions of parks, the training methods and nutrition, the bats, the color line, the NFL, average player quality, relief pitchers — changes in all of these things affected play. But now everything is ruined because of steroids and HGH?
I’ve yet to see anyone quantify how these drugs make you a better player. A-Rod was always a great player, even as a kid. Same with Bonds. Tell me how many home runs hit by either player can be associated with drug use. Ten? Fifty? Two hundred? Zero?
February 9th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
42: I know that’s who you were referring to, but it’s an extremely poor characterization. In his prime, Ruth was a legitimate athlete.
February 9th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
In A-Rod’s case I think it is more sportwriters and statheads who are upset than the general public.
Actually, there is. Virtually without exception they denied it or tried every way they could think of to avoid answering the question. All of them knew they were doing something wrong and many were deeply ashamed when the truth became public. That doesn’t invalidate your point that baseball had a lousy system which didn’t discourage this behavior, but the ethical failing was mutual.
February 9th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
@Mark
A-Rod has just “came clean,” as it were, to Peter Gammons. Says he took PED from ‘01-’03.
Avg HR/season he hit in that period: 52.0
Avg HR/season he in his career excluding those years: 39.2
You can argue whether or not hitting more HR necessarily makes one a better player, but that’s a substantial, quantifiable difference.
That said, I more or less agree with the gist of your post.
February 9th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Generally, if you don’t lift weights, you don’t take steroids or HGH. Ken Griffey Jr. didn’t lift weights in the 1990s. He just looked like a traditional perfect athlete. He had back to back years of 56 homers, so I’d say that’s about the unjuiced limit of consistent peak performance, similar to Mickey Mantle’s healthiest years.
February 9th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
I was happy to see Greg Maddux ended up one win ahead of Roger Clemens. Maddux plays golf six days a week during the offseason while Clemens pumps iron.
February 9th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
You can argue whether or not hitting more HR necessarily makes one a better player,
You can? Isn’t a hr the best possible outcome from an at-bat? I mean, if a guy hits more home runs but gets worse at other things, yes, you can argue it. But I assume this means “all other things being equal…”
February 9th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
@too many steves:
All other things being equal, you are certainly correct.
Swinging for the fences can lead to more strikeouts and a lower batting avg./on-base percentage.
February 9th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
The thing was, Arod was the Hero. Someone with such incredible natural talent that he didn’t NEED to use steroids to be good. It’s that he seemed above it and ended up not that is the tragedy.
February 9th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
For example, I am sure Phelps took something else than marijuana to get his 100 medals.
Phelps has had regular out-of-contest testing for years (documented on the FINA website; recreational drugs aren’t part of the test); winning lots of medals means pissing in lots of cups.
That doesn’t mean that I don’t have my suspicions about the enforcement regime around swimming; if you assume a fairly even distribution of dopers, not that many swimmers seem to get caught. The best dopers are always ahead of the best tests, and there was plenty of reporting during the Olympics on this.
February 9th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
A lot of the gnashing is from those who blamed all the ills of baseball on Barry Bonds.
No true fan feels that way. Everyone knows that all of baseballs ills are the fault of Jose Canseco.
February 9th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Swinging for the fences can lead to more strikeouts and a lower batting avg./on-base percentage.
But sometimes the tradeoff is worth it. I was at an event where Harmon Killebrew was speaking, and he said he came up as a slap hitter, and the coaches made him into a homerun/pull hitter. He is in the top 5 or so all time for strikeouts, but he retired in the top 5 in homeruns as well.
February 9th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Carl Mays killed Ray Chapman in 1920, not Ben Chapman. Ben Chapman didn’t hit the majors until 1930 and died at a ripe old age in 1993.
I realize that some people really enjoy getting outraged about things, go around looking for things about which to be outraged and that, for many, steroids is one of those things. I don’t get it, though. I just don’t care if A-Rod or anybody else did steroids. It’s their bodies and, as far as I’m concerned, it’s none of my business. And no, I won’t think of the children. A baseball players job is to entertain me by playing baseball, not to raise your kids for you.
February 9th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
It’s frustrating that so many people on both sides of this issue take such a sneering attitude toward people with different points of view.
My least favorite question is “Who Cares?!?!” It’s always meant as biting rhetoric, but of course that’s an empirical question. And yes, lots of people care.
February 9th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Dave Kingman once led the National League in home runs with a .206 batting average.
February 9th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Policos, perennially losing their own innocence.
I’ve been surprised at all the gnashing of teeth over Guantanamo Bay and the Bush Administration. So they lied us into a war and tortured prisoners, who cares? Obama is in the Oval Office now. We don’t need to prosecute anyone for breaking the law. Heck, we don’t even need to change policies when it comes to domestic spying and CIA interrogation. The Bush Administration was an unfortunate episode, driven by bad policy. At the end of the day, simply accepting this reality would make us all feel better about Washington. No need to hold anyone accountable.
February 10th, 2009 at 3:59 am
Are you really trying to imply some sort of equivalency between torture and indefinite detention without charge or counsel? Because that’s… not a good comparison, let’s say.
February 10th, 2009 at 4:08 am
I long for the days when guys like Ryne Sandberg led the league in homeruns with 40.
Miguel Cabrera led the AL just this past season with 37 HR.
The year Ryno led the NL with 40, Cecil Fielder hit 51 HR for Detroit.
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