Matt Yglesias

32 Responses to “F-22 Stimulus”

1. danceswithgoats Says:
   January 21st, 2009 at 2:53 pm

   While you are into boondoggling; the amount of money spent by the military for construction in Europe is insane. It is unclear why we have much over there other than some logistics hubs. Perhaps a couple HQs with focus on Europe and Africa (EUCOM and AFRICOM) but much more than that is a waste of money that could be spent in the States.

2. Why oh why Says:
   January 21st, 2009 at 3:01 pm

   One good thing about a McCain presidency would have been that a former naval aviator in the White House would have been the deadliest foe ever faced by the U.S. Air Force and its various boondoggles

   You really think McCain would have lowered the defense budget? No way, instead the stimulus would have been mostly used to fund neverending wars.

3. fostert Says:
   January 21st, 2009 at 3:01 pm

   It will be interesting to see how McCain reacts. My understanding was that he has opposed it the past. The question is whether he’ll toe the Republican line or act independently. I’m guessing he’ll go on his own here. That’s his real nature. Now that he doesn’t have to win the presidency, he can be his own man. If he goes against this, it’s dead. But maybe we can send one to Vietnam to go next to his plane that is already a monument. The Vietnamese would surely love the irony. I’m guessing John wouldn’t, though. Fair enough, it’s his call. In the end, I’m glad I met John McCain, and I’m glad I saw his plane.

4. John DE Says:
   January 21st, 2009 at 3:01 pm

   On the other hand, I have not found any indication in your links that this has anything to do with the stimulus, so it doesn’t seem like evidence of your argument at all.

5. j.e.b. Says:
   January 21st, 2009 at 3:03 pm

   Must agree with ‘Why oh why’, but I can’t tell you how much I’d like to see a “Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for the Elimination of the Air Force” position…even if the job had to be given to John McCain.

6. scott Says:
   January 21st, 2009 at 3:09 pm

   Until we change the system – and not just the players – nothing will change.

7. SLC Says:
   January 21st, 2009 at 3:15 pm

   Mr. Yglesias’ war on the Air Force along with his war on Suburbs his war on highways and his war on the automobile certainly keeps him busy and hopefully out of trouble.

8. John Henninger Says:
   January 21st, 2009 at 3:29 pm

   The sad thing is that the F-22 and F-35 will probably be as obsolte as the P-51 in the next year, due to the development of unmanned fighter planes such as the Dassault Neuron.

9. ProdSlash Says:
   January 21st, 2009 at 3:47 pm

   You may have a point.

   However, the Russians and other competitor nations are continuing to develop 4th and 5th generation fighter aircraft. There are MiGs and Su’s in development or testing that will likely be superior to the F-15. Considering the Russian’s current behavior, it might be wiser to think further down the line than right now.

10. Seth A. Roby Says:
    January 21st, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    If you’re suspicious of the office of the president and think that “there’s virtually no chance of the congressional wringer doing anything other than making things worse,” who do you think should be running things?

    Or is it merely a problem with the current setup of these institutions? Or their current membership?

11. NM Says:
    January 21st, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    The Mig-35 is far far superior to the F-15. If you think our military exists solely to attack third world countries or states with 2nd rate armies then you’re right that the F-22 is a waste. But the reality is that our military is also concerned with states like Russia and China.

    I am all for the “eliminate waste in our military” meme. But the F-22 is actually a relatively useful project. And for you to claim that the F-35 will be cheaper or good enough, you’re basing that on basically nothing. They haven’t made an operational F-35 yet, so you have no idea how much they will cost. Their estimate is about 1/3 the cost of a Raptor, but again, that’s just a cost projection based on an assumption of a relatively high number of production.

12. mpowell Says:
    January 21st, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    10: But here’s what you’re missing: looking further down the line means we scrap orders for additional F-22s, focus on strengthening our economy and long term research.

    Building up a new advanced fighter fleet today when we already have the best in the world is a waste of money. Especially when it’s not guaranteed to address the best threat we’ll face in 20 years. It’s the fighter plane we have available in 20 years that we’ll want to be investing in.

13. Njorl Says:
    January 21st, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    The Mig-35 is far far superior to the F-15.

    The 35 is the same as the 29 with different bells and whistles. No MiG 29 has ever come out better than an F-15 when they have met, I doubt improved MiG-29s will outperform improved F-15s.

    Perhaps you meant the Su-35. That will almost certainly be better than the f-15.

    _______________________________________________________

    The Air Force said they whupped the Indians’ Su-30MKI’s (best non-American plane) at Red Flag using only F-15’s.

    The Indians didn’t use their best high tech countermeasures in order to keep them secret. The whole point of the later Su series is the set of countermeasures that allow them to survive long enough to penetrate to within stand-off weapons range of an AWACs.

14. NM Says:
    January 21st, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    Njorl

    Thank’s for the correction. Haste makes waste… or in this case mistaken identity

15. Jeremy Says:
    January 21st, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    “But maybe we can send one to Vietnam to go next to his plane that is already a monument.”

    It’s a monument? Really? Wish I’d seen it when I was there.

16. beowulf Says:
    January 21st, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    So why don’t just buy SU-35’s from Russia and, for that matter, Dassault Neurons from France?

    We’d save money and buy goodwill with both Russia and France. In fact, our defense procurement budget is so absurdly large, it’d be profitable for both countries to forego exporting arms to any other country as a condition to export weapons to the US.

    Oh that’s right, the only industry we have left is the defense industry.

17. NM Says:
    January 21st, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    I’m not sure why people keep referencing the Neuron. It’s a ground attack aircraft. They aren’t planning on giving it any anti-air capability, so it’s totally irrelevant. The F-22 is a fighter, the Neuron is not. It’s like saying “We should just have B-52’s do the work of the F-22’s. That would save loads of money.”

18. Scott P. Says:
    January 21st, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    The big trouble with any kind of stimulus bill is that it has to pass congress and there’s virtually no chance of the congressional wringer doing anything other than making things worse

    Yes, damn our representative government!

19. outsource Says:
    January 21st, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    we have lost an enormous amount of vehicles and equipment in Iraq and Afghanistan so purchasing replacements as part of the stimulus isn’t a bad idea so long as it is not F-22s

    the French through EADS already have several large defense contracts for helicopters and refueling aircraft already and numerous of the top defense contractors are foreign owned compaines

20. bob in fla Says:
    January 21st, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    My understanding of a major drawback of the F-22 is it cannot be launched from an aircraft carrier, which greatly limits its usefulness. Having a small fleet of them for testing/experimental purposes is one thing as what we learn from this testing will help in developing the next generation of fighter aircraft. If the F-35 does end up costing less to produce while being as effective as the F-22, it could be used for all branches of the military, creating additional savings.

21. Jinchi Says:
    January 22nd, 2009 at 9:52 am

    One good thing about a McCain presidency would have been that a former naval aviator in the White House would have been the deadliest foe ever faced by the U.S. Air Force

    I suppose if you think that the USAF is the sole contributor to defense boondoggles that comment would make sense.

22. Jinchi Says:
    January 22nd, 2009 at 10:00 am

    The sad thing is that the F-22 and F-35 will probably be as obsolte as the P-51 in the next year, due to the development of unmanned fighter planes such as the Dassault Neuron.

    I doubt there’s any unmanned fighter out there that can outperform a trained pilot. It’ll be a very long time before people are obsolete.

23. L. Swanson Says:
    February 24th, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    Your view is short sighted and ingnorant. According to most defence analists, the Su-37 and the new chinese j-10 are tactically superior to the F-15 in both long range and close in dog fighting. The Indian’s Su-30 MKIs Won most of the long range engagements in Red Flag. We needed the F-22 in the pacific five years ago. We are losing the technilogical edge that deters China from subjegating its neighbors. The Chinese are already in devolpment of an F-22 style stealth fighter designated the J-XX or XXJ. Underestimating the Russians and the Chinese just because we can traunce a third world military like Iraq’s could be disastorous.

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