Terrible to Even Worse in Somalia
Things are getting worse and worse in Somalia:
The pirates off Somalia’s coast are getting bolder, wilier and somehow richer, despite an armada of Western naval ships hot on their trail. Shipments of emergency food aid are barely keeping much of Somalia’s population of nine million from starving. The most fanatical wing of Somalia’s Islamist insurgency is gobbling up territory and imposing its own harsh brand of Islamic law, like whipping dancers and stoning a 13-year-old girl to death.
And now, with the government on the brink and the Islamists about to seize control for the second time, the operative question inside and outside Somalia seems to be: Now what?
“It will be bloody,” predicted Rashid Abdi, a Somalia analyst at the International Crisis Group, a research institute that tracks conflicts worldwide. “The Ethiopians have decided to let the transitional government sink. The chaos will spread from the south to the north. Warlordism will be back.”
US press coverage of this situation keeps ignoring the US role, but had American policymakers tried to dissuade Ethiopia from invading two years ago rather than encouraging the invasion, we could have saved thousands of lives, avoiding this piracy problem, and had a more manageable Islamist situation. But at the time, most conservatives applauded the US-sponsored Ethiopian invasion to be a smashing success and thought maybe we could learn a thing or two about the utility of harsh measures in sticking it to the wogs.
63 Responses to “Terrible to Even Worse in Somalia”
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December 6th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
To be fair, the piracy isn’t really a consequence of Ethopia’s invasion. It’s more the byproduct of the Somalian state being unable to prevent Asian fishing trawlers from decimating the coastal fisheries. What do fishermen do when there are no longer any fish to catch? Piracy, of course.
December 6th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Matthew, you wouldn’t use the n-word to describe a Somalian who had emigrated to the USA (even in satirical voice), so please don’t use the equally insulting epithet “wog” to describe one who stayed in Somalia.
December 6th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
I am very curious how the ICU could have prevented piracy considering they never even came close to conquer Puntland, which is where most of the piracy comes from. In fact the ICU never controlled a majority of the country.
December 6th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Matt,
Have you ever thought of interviewing or at least speaking with the “American policymakers” who made this decision? I’m especially thinking of the folks in the State Department’s East Africa bureau who actually develop and make US foreign policy towards Somalia. They might shed a little light on why these decisions were made and add a little nuance to your Somalia coverage. Just an idea.
Curious
December 6th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
http://makkale.blogcu.com/ankaragucu-galatasaray-canli-izle-ankaragucu-galatasaray-macini-canli-izle-ankaragucu-galatasaray-online-izle-ankaragucu-galatasaray-lig-tv-izle_30604531.html
December 6th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Dsquared – Matt is being facetious here with the ‘wog’ line. Of course it’s offensive – that’s the point – that a lot of conservatives see Somalis as something less than fully human.
And the post is spot on.
December 6th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
http://liginmaclari.blogcu.com/ankaragucu-galatasaray-canli-izle-ankaragucu-galatasaray-macini-canli-izle-ankaragucu-galatasaray-online-izle-ankaragucu-galatasaray-lig-tv-izle_30604141.html
December 6th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Francisco,
Right, we get that Matt is being facetious. Nevertheless, he wouldn’t use the n-word that casually. That is the point.
December 6th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
We needed a victory against some Muslims somewhere so we invented one in Somalia for Christmas 06. It’s what we do.
Nothing was more certain than the calamitous decline of America than when the chest thumping empire builders took charge. Totally unaware that the world had passed them by. Let’s be thankful that they didn’t blow the whole world up, this time.
Castles in the sky were forged into stupendous wealth for the few in the final orgy of delusion.
The suicide bombers of Iraq are not religious fanatics but fools enlisted to do battle to save a world that never was nor ever can be.
December 6th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
had American policymakers tried to dissuade Ethiopia from invading two years ago rather than encouraging the invasion, we could have … avoid[ed] this piracy problem,
I said last time would be the last time I would say this; I was wrong.
No,
we
would
have
not
avoided
the
piracy
problem
if
Ethopia
would
not
have
invaded.
December 6th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
I’m not convinced that our policy in Somalia has anything to do with piracy. But that doesn’t let us off the hook. We have the naval power to stop this. And stopping piracy is why our Navy was created in the first place. I have a cousin who was in the Navy until two years ago. From his stories, it’s not clear that our Navy does much of anything. The only thing I do know they’ve done is to work with the Thai, Malay, and Indonesian Navies to combat piracy in the Malacca Straight. And those operations have been very effective. Perhaps we could do that in Somalia as well.
December 6th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
FWIW, the NYT article referenced does not do a direct (1) Ethiopia invasion –> (2) Somalia piracy flow chart. Here is the relevant context from the article.
The suggestion is more that by choosing two major options for consolidating the hoped-for nascent Somali state which turned out to be wrong, thus hampering the development of an acting Somali state, the U.S. did harm to the desired formation of a Somali state, which therefore might have more possibility of affecting piracy operations.
December 6th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
“And stopping piracy is why our Navy was created in the first place.”
I should note that piracy is also a major reason we have our Constitution. The Articles of Confederation did not allow a standing Navy. We needed to change that in order to confront the Barbary pirates. It took us way too long to actually do it. But we did it eventually. And the first American soldier to die on foreign soil died in Tripoli. But he didn’t die in vain, that was the first battle we won as an independent country. Most Americans don’t know this, but at least the Marines celebrate it in their hymn.
December 6th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Re: but had American policymakers tried to dissuade Ethiopia from invading two years ago rather than encouraging the invasion, we could have saved thousands of lives, avoiding this piracy problem, and had a more manageable Islamist situation.
I really doubt this. Ethiopia and Somalia have an old history of enmity and border disputes. Back in the 80s, when both were Soviet clients, the Russians couldn’t keep them from going to war over the Ogaden. I can’t see the US having any real influence over the situation either.
December 6th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
In the 1980s, Somalia was a U.S. client as well, including hundreds of millions of dollars of direct military assistance.
http://books.google.com/books?id=dUFTh4UBC-sC&pg=PA240&lpg=PA240&dq=united+states+somalia+reagan&source=web&ots=R8RpyEoVwb&sig=AiNCs0pY6tpoXZZ2zF2zzj3CX9k&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA241,M1
December 6th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
David Brin had an interesting suggestion in a recent post on his blog. I didn’t know this but the northern part of Somalia — the part which used to be British Somaliland — is relatively stable and has at least a semi-effective government that has kept the pirates at bay in the Gulf of Aden.
They declared independence years ago, but nobody has recognized them given the usual concerns over minority populations seeking independence in places like China, Russia, Spain, etc, but may be we should be doing more to reward places like Somaliland as carrot for other factions in the country to begin behaving in a more civilized manner. (One snag is that Somaliland forces just completed operations against the neighboring Puntland — another self-declared region to the east, so it’s not all sweetness and light there either.)
It’s a terrible situation fraught with difficulties, but it could be a place to start.
December 6th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
look at the impact on the insurance rates charged to shipping companies as a result of piracy. Even with the recent peak it’s something like a 1/1000 risk. No point blockading this…it basically functions as a tax…seizing ships and the process of negotiation is just the way the tax is levied. And compared to what say a war in the gulf did to insurance rates it’s a much more negligible impact for shipping companies than the financial consequences of US wars.
December 6th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
That’s interesting, tacitus. I’m not sure dividing Somalia would work, but nothing else has either. To me, it all looks pretty hopeless. Sadly, the ICU has probably been the best Somali government in my lifetime. And they sucked. I’m not convinced we can do anything positive for their people. But I am convinced we can stop the piracy. And we need to control the fishing to do that. And a little cooperation from India would help. But I think we should limit ourselves to achievable goals. And a stable democracy in Somalia isn’t one of them. I wish it weren’t so, but we can’t make them all Iowans overnight. But maybe a generation of stability will give us the opportunity. Sadly, a generation of stability might not be possible.
December 6th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
You’re right TD, but I still think the piracy needs to stop. The problem is that it will increase if we do nothing. And I’ll admit that I’m pretty radical in my anti-piracy attitude. But I really can’t tolerate it at all. Perhaps it’s my fear of the open ocean. I hate being on boats. And I’d like to think that only the ocean can kill me. The ocean has that right, pirates don’t. In the end though, we can stop this pretty easily. A few ships could prevent the pirates from ever coming to shore. If they can never reap their rewards, they’ll stop.
December 6th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
JonF,
It goes back longer than that. Christian Ethiopia has been at war with its Muslim neighbors, on and off, for over a thousand years. In the Middle Ages, the Emperor of Ethiopia was known as “Prester John” in the West, and considered a legendary hero for battling the Muslims. The eastern tier of present-day Ethiopia is, of course, Somali territory which was captured about a hundred years ago. Oddly enough, part of that region was ruled by the Khedive of Egypt briefly in the 19th century.
Francisco the Man,
Sure, whatever. If we support any war going on in a predominantly black country, that makes us racists I suppose. (And get your racial slurs straight- “wogs” is a slur for Asians not Africans, it’s short for “Wily Oriental Gentlemen.”)
I would suggest that the real contempt for Somalis here is displayed by the people who would abandon innocent Somali civilians, including 13 year old rape victims, to the Jihadist hordes in order to score a cheap political point against the Bush administration. I have pity and compassion for the horribly suffering Somalis, that’s exactly why I want them to be delivered from Jihadist oppression, and why I want the judicial murder of that 13 year old girl to be terribly avenged. Somalians deserve better than the Jihadists, even if Mr. Yglesias and the other liberal Islamophiles don’t agree.
December 6th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
This post was fairly poor, by MY standards. Yes, eventually, the ICU might have been able to extend their reach to areas that the pirates currently operate out of. However, having the creating another Taliban state in Somalia can’t be anyone’s idea of a good strategy. Especially considering the Al Qeada ties that already existed with that organization. I hope people still take that threat seriously because it is real. Not the overhyped future struggles against Iran, China, or any other disagreeable state.
December 6th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Hector, I’m definitely not in the neo-con war romanticist camp you appear to be in, but I definitely agree with you about Somalia and the Islamists. This place is looking exactly like another 90’s Afghanistan. How long before they start exporting terrorists? A dozen guys with rifles and grenades held the city of Mumbai hostage for 3 days. What about a hijacked supertanker being detonated in the Suez Canal? Think about what that would do for global commerce and energy prices.
December 6th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
“that’s exactly why I want them to be delivered from Jihadist oppression,”
But if it’s Christian oppression, you’re fine with that, aren’t you? You’ve already expressed you support for violent Christian theocracy. I respect your views, Hector, but I’m getting really tired of your Christianist tendencies. Those of us who are secularists don’t what anyone forcing any religion down our throats. And trust me, Christianity doesn’t taste any better. Nor does it have any validity. I’d never adhere to any Abramhamic religion, but of the three, Christianity is clearly the worst.
December 6th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Courtney,
Er, I’m very far from being a neo-con. I’m a socialist in politics and I oppose the Iraq war as well as almost all U.S. military interventions since 1945. I don’t think that the US should get involved with Somalia, but I do hope fervently that the Ethiopians can bring some order to the place. Probably the best thing for Somalia would be for the Ethiopians to temporarily take over the country for the good of the Somali people, get rid of the Jihadists, rebuild the infrastructure, and help to turn Somalia back into something of a functioning society.
Fostert, you appear to be hampered by incredible ignorance, so I’m not going to argue too long, but you may want to look up the definition of a theocracy. A state in which Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or whatever is the official religion isn’t a theocracy. A theocracy refers specifically to a country where the laws are based on unmediated and unfiltered sacred scripture, or where religious authorities are identical with the state. Cyprus in the ’70s wasn’t a theocracy just because Orthodoxy was the official religion and Archbishop Makarios was simultaneously patriarch, ethnarch and president.
A regime based on Catholic natural-law theory quite obviously isn’t a theocracy, any more than regimes based on loosely Islamic ideology such as Nasser’s “Islamic Socialism”. If you think that Islam (which Pope Benedict has accurately described as “gravely deficient”) is so great, you’re free to join Michael Jackson and convert.
December 7th, 2008 at 12:07 am
“A regime based on Catholic natural-law theory quite obviously isn’t a theocracy,”
No, that isn’t really obvious. To me, when a Church defines the laws and forces everyone to adhere to those laws, that’s theocracy. And I don’t want to get near to it. And I don’t want to be a Muslim. I thought you’d be smart enough to realize that when I said I’d never adhere to an Abrahamic religion, that Islam was one of those religions. Clearly, I was mistaken. You are truly are ignorant about which religions believe in the God of Abraham. And if you think that your desire to impose your choice of religious authority on the rest of us is somehow consistent with our Constitution, then you are simply delusional. If you don’t like our Constitution, move to India. You won’t fit in there either, but at least you can speak some of the languages.
December 7th, 2008 at 12:21 am
“(which Pope Benedict has accurately described as “gravely deficient”)”
Pope Benedict was a Nazi. And it appears he hasn’t really changed his views. I loved John Paul II, but Benedict has removed any respect I had for the Catholic religion. As for Islam being deficient, I really don’t see that. I disagree with it, but only because I cannot accept the existence of God. But Christianity’s insistence of separating God into three entities is even more unacceptable. If God exists, there can only be one of them. The Jews and Muslims get that. But Christians have this absurd Trinity concept that is every bit is absurd as the plethora of Hindu gods. But I would say this: If Allah ever proved his existence to me, I would be a Muslim. But that won’t happen, so I’ll remain a Buddhist. And an angry one at that.
December 7th, 2008 at 12:36 am
By the way Hector, I love it when people accuse me of ignorance. It’s kind of like accusing Richard Feynman of not knowing physics. I get a good laugh out of it. But please, you live in this country now, read the Constitution. Especially the First Amendment. You’ll realize that your desire to establish the Catholic religion as the predominant authority doesn’t really work here.
December 7th, 2008 at 3:53 am
Curious: “Have you ever thought of interviewing or at least speaking with the “American policymakers” who made this decision?”
No he hasn’t, because they probably wouldn’t bother to talk to his 28-year-old ass.
December 7th, 2008 at 4:53 am
ixnay on the ogway
December 7th, 2008 at 6:18 am
The pirates are from Puntland, which you think might be noticed because it’s such a great name, with, you know, great potential for alliteration and puns. Of course Puntland does not exist in complete isolation, but it has been semi-autonomous since 1998 and was not invaded by Ethiopia.
December 7th, 2008 at 7:24 am
No piracy if not for Ethiopian invasion?
Matthew’s always-entertaining, always-prolific blog posting comes in several subgenres. This one is: “Doesn’t Know The First Thing About What He Is Talking About”.
December 7th, 2008 at 8:01 am
Re: What about a hijacked supertanker being detonated in the Suez Canal? Think about what that would do for global commerce and energy prices.
The Suez Canal was closed after the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, and stayed closed for a number of years, without damaging the world’s economy.
December 7th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Fostert,
Figures you would deny the Trinity. The notion of the hypostatic union and the eternal procession of the Holy Spirit are not ones that particularly appeal to the Stuff White People Like crowd. Unfortunately, they happen to be true. Let’s take the Trinity for example. It can be demonstrated on purely logical, ontological grounds.
1) God is the most perfect being which can be conceived, in St. Anselm’s words.
2) If God possesses all perfections then He must possess moral perfection.
3) The most perfect moral sentiment we can conceive of is love, which means that God’s nature must be love (as St. John the Evangelist tells us).
4) For God to be perfect, this statement would always have been true, that is to say there could never have been
5) Love can only exist between members of a community, household, what have you. That means that God is essentially a community of persons.
6) There cannot be any more than three of them, because God essentially simple and not complex. Three is the smallest possible number for a community to exist, and for the statement “God is love” to have meaning. That is to say, God consists of the one who begets (the Father), the one begotten (the Son), and that by which he is begotten (the Holy Spirit).
As Chesterton pointed out, Islam’s problems as a sociopolitical creed stem largely from this basic denial of the Incarnation and the Trinity. And please don’t give me that “Jesus was just a wise moral teacher, not the Son of God” crap. Jesus claimed very explicitly to be the Son of God, with the ability to forgive sins, the only mediator between men and the Father. If he wasn’t who He claimed to be, then he was not a wise man, but rather a fiendish megalomaniac. As the saying goes, “aut Deus, aut homo malus.” Either He was ‘the Word Made Flesh’, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, or He was nothing but another run of the mill self-aggrandizing ‘prophet’ who came to a bad end.
December 7th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Hector, I too oppose the Trinity, in that it’s entirely imaginary, the product of quite sickened minds looking to find the real in their chains of delusions. But I was indeed highly entertained that fostert managed to prompt you to unleash the full Hector.
December 7th, 2008 at 10:37 am
And, yes, Jesus was not the Son of God, he wasn’t magic, and the beliefs of many to the opposite are evidence of nothing. The fact that he may have been a bit megalomaniacal doesn’t mean all his statements were worthless — after all, people engage you in dialogue, and they certainly don’t accept everything you say as truthful. But you are correct that it would be terribly injurious to Christian-derived dogma for people to become sane and evaluate Biblical statements on the basis of some sort of reasoning, rather than being convinced that a primitive and simplistic invisible magic supreme being made it all true.
December 7th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
As a somali, it’s quite interesting and exciting to see no somalis discussing our politics. For far too long the whole world has ignored us as we descended into further anarchy.
Let’s me tell you guys what’s going on in somalia in plain terms. Firstly the pirate problem has taken off from the fishermen versus foreign trawler battles in the 90. Somalia has no navy to protect it’s waters so we got europeans and asians fishing in somalian waters stealing fish and dumping toxic waste. Naturally the locals and the fishermen complained to the un but to no avail. So the fishermen started to fight back against these ships and now since most of the fish are declining the fishermen cant feed their family and have resorted to piracy.
Secondly the internal wars of somalia is caused by clan politics. Right now somalia is divided into 3. Somaliland, puntland and southern somalia each controlled by opposing clans distrusful of each other. Each clan has it’s own warlords busy killing innocents and looting everything. Remember black hawk down and that nasty warlord mohammed farah aidid? Yep we have got loads of them in somalia.
Now coming to the islamists. The islamists want one thing. A united somalia. They absolutely abhor clan politics and warlords are fearful of them. In 06 they destroyed all warlords in southern somalia, stopped all the killings and lootings. They had their eyes on somaliland and puntland the land of the pirates as well. But because they were an islamic government in nature the united states was frightened. In their infinite wisdom they decided that a chaotic secular warlord infested somalia was better than a united peaceful islamic somalia. So they asked eithopia who ofcourse wants nothing more than a broken somalia so that it can access somalian ports to invade somalia and they will provide money and arms.
What we got was the worst humanitarian situation in southern somalia as many people were killed in the invasion and many displaced. As a result we now have piracy and warlordism back. Clan politics in somalia has has never been greater and security situation worse than before.
2 years from that invasion, the islamists who were the moderates of the ICU have been driven away and a new hardline unyielding faction have been formed. They control most of central and southern somalia and their rallying cry is the liberation of somalia from the eithopian invaders. I know few of my relatives who have joined the ranks of al shabab. They will not stop until every single eithopian has left somalia. After that they will turn their attention to the warlords and the pirates. The governments of puntland and somaliland are worried already because they don’t want somalia to be one country. But al shabab are adamant that unification of somalia into one country is their final goal after getting rid of eithopian soldiers
Anyways that was pretty long from me whew!
December 7th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Somalia is a failed state. Intervention was and still is necessary. Ethiopia is directly influenced by a bordering failed state like Somalia. I am an Ethiopian, what is lost in this reporting is the fact that terrorist bombings form these militias always happens in shops and coffee places in Ethiopia. They infiltrated our towns to extort money and run business transactions to fund their atrocities. Similarly a proxy war existw with Eriteria, which arms these militias. It is in our interest and the United States to get hold of the issue.
December 7th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Shawel,
I’d like to thank you and your countrymen for the unappreciated work that you have done in holding the line against Islamic Jihadism. Not just today, but for most of the past 13 centuries. Just as your countrymen refused to surrender to Fascist Italy in the ’30s, at a time when they were abandoned by most of the rest of the world, the courageous people of Ethiopia is refusing to surrender to the Islamic jihad today. The Islamic Jihadists have made it clear that their goal is to turn Ethiopia into an Islamic State, and have begun murdering Amhara Christian missionaries in the Muslim regions. The border between Somalia and Ethiopia is one of the front lines of the struggle between jihadism and civilization today, and Ethiopia, more than many other countries, is truly doing the Lord’s work.
December 7th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
to shawel and hector,
Somalia could’nt care less about eithopia. The only one waging war here is your fundementalist christian thugs who have invaded a neighbouring country killing millions of innocents in the process. Rest assured that nothing unites somalians more than a foreign invader.
It’s quite amusing to see the real feelings of hector come to the war. Turn eithopia into a muslim country? That aids infested country into a muslim country? Don’t make me laugh.
As a somalian, i support my country men fighting the invaders and we will bring back the country of somalia back to somalis. And yes it will be ruled by whoever the people choose. If the people of somalia choose mickey mouse as their ruler it is none of america or eithopia’s concern.
Eithopia will learn their lesson the hard way. We are not arabs. We are somalis and we do not like invaders. 2 years form the invasion and that corrupt mogadishu government only controls a couple of towns. I give it six months before all eithopian invaders and allies are driven out of somalia. Christian fundementalists will be driven out like centuries ago
December 7th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
By the way hector, your lord jesus christ is not recognised in somalia. We love jesus as truly a mighty messenger of God. But we are not going to accept christian teachings from christian fundementalists with a bible on one hand and a gun on the other. Doing the lord’s work? Just on friday eithopians shelled a town north of mogadishu killing a baby. If that’s called doing the lords work then i rather join satan instead
December 7th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
shawel,
We will fight you guys till you leave somalia. That’s all there is to it.
Stick to your landlocked sealess country.
December 7th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Yusuf,
Um, Ethiopians aren’t ‘fundamentalist’. Fundamentalists are a subset of Protestants, while Ethiopians are Orthodox Christians.
You guys started this war, not the Ethiopians. You guys have been trying to take back eastern Ethiopia since the ’70s. Remind me of who invaded whom back then? Now you guys are killing people who convert to Christianity, stoning to death teenage rape victims, and sponsoring assassinations of Christian leaders in Ethiopia.
December 7th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Hector,
Stop deluding yourself, if you call yourself Christian you can not endorse the rapes, tortures, slitting of throats, and mass murder that is going on in by Ethiopians in Ethiopia and Somalia. It is because of deluded people like you, who claim they abhor needless violence (Terrorism) yet are happy to support and cheer when innocent people are being terrorized.
Do a search for
“Ethiopia: Army Commits Executions, Torture, and Rape in Ogaden”
or
“Ethiopia’s ‘own Darfur’ as villagers flee government-backed violence”
my post with a link is not appearing.
December 7th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Dan,
That abuses are happening under the Ethiopian invasion is terrible. Are they worse, however, than what the Somalians are doing to themselves? It would take some truly extreme brutality to outdo the Somali militias. If they are, if your account of atrocities is accurate, and if Ethiopia’s own political and cultural security is guaranteed, then I will agree with you that perhaps they should withdraw.
December 7th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
I see I have invited some vitriol over my comments. Ethiopia has no interest in violence and never will. We have our own problems to solve. Many many of them and we have mostly failed to support our own. But we are also the most tolerant and very diverse group of people. We have a very symbiotic relationship with Ethiopian Muslims or anyone for that matter. But we can not tolerate cross border looting, murders, terror and machinations occurring on a daily basis on Ethiopian soil from these Militias. Most importantly we will not wait for them to have a fertile ground in Ethiopia to launch their unspeakably act either on us or anywhere else in the world. I strongly believe it is necessary with or without outside help to stabilize the situation. No one will do it for us. I don’t have an enemy in Somalia, just those who are willing to hijack the country and its people. Additionally I also think Eriteria need to be taken to task for their support of these Militias. But much politics is involved in that regard.
Thank you Hector.
December 8th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Eithopians have murdered many innocent somalis, raped our women and destroyed our country. For that there will no forgiveness. shawel you talk about stabilising. Somalia was already stable before your genocidal troops aided by mr ‘jesus talks to me’ bush invaded somalia. You killed many somalis because you did’nt like the government who took power. A government who has destroyed warlords and clan miltias who have ruined somalia. The people are angry and thousands have joined the war for somali liberation. Your puppet government will not be accepted by somalis and we will not rest until every filthy murderous eithopian soldier is either killed or driven out of somalia. Somalia will not be a colony of eithopia. Count on it. We are not arabs who cower at shelling or mortar attacks.
In the words of a famous american politican, give me death or give me freedom. Somalia my country, we will not rest until you are free from thugs and invaders.
December 8th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Yusuf,
Remind me again, who invaded the Ogaden in 1977? And which side has carried out the slaughter of religious minorities within its territory?
December 8th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Yusuf,
If you think rule by the Islamic Courts’ Union is ‘freedom’, then I’d hate to see what you would consider to be tyranny.
December 8th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
ogaden? are you serious? there are people fighting for ogaden from eithopia. Ogaden is populated by ethnic somalis. Learn abit of history. The lovable eithopian soldiers commit rape crimes againt the people of ogaden on daily basis. Ofcourse the people of ogaden are not like the poor downtrodden saints of darfur who get killed by the sudanese.
ogaden is inhabited by somalis and they want freedom from the brutal eithopian regime. Check the united nations stats. It’s the worst place to live in eithopia. No development nothing. No wonder the people of ogaden despise and hate eithopians. They virtually have nothing in common with them. The eithopians infact usually go daily raping sprees against the poor women of ogaden. Poor people. Destined to be under the control of thugs forever. I fully support their efforts to secede from eithopia.
As for the islamic courts, they provided more security and stability in their 6 months than the 2 years the warlords of tsg and their clientel eithopia has provided to the people of somalia. Don’t believe me. all you have to do is to compare the situation of somalia right now with the people of your lord jesus christ at the helm and 2 years ago with the islamic courts at the helm
In the words of a famous person. by their fruits ye shall knwo them. The fruits of the ICU in 6 months against the fruits of your beloved eithopia and their quislings in somalia.
So tell me. whose the tyrant again?
December 8th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
In any case hector, one thing is for sure. The islamists will eventually take over all of somalia. No deluded warlord, clansmen or tribal fools will get in the way. The people are fed up and there will be nothing eithopia or the us can do about it.
No somaliland or puntland notions of independence will be entertained. Somalia will be somalia once again pre 91 and when that happens somalia can look forward to peace and stability. no amount of intereference from neighbouring countries will stop that
We are not like iraq who are willing to allow the meddling of iran into our affairs. We are somalis and we don’t like foreigners in our country. Once the eithopians are destroyed in the roads of mogadishu and their puppet warlord government is finished, you can look forward to somalia free from instabiltiy. Right now for somalia it’s the dark night before the hope of dawn. president bush reset somalia back to the 90s but unlike last time it wont be too long to trace our steps back.
As for eithopia, no amount of invasions or pleading will make the sea magically appear in addis abbaba. The ports of somalia will be always be out of reach from grubby hands.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:44 am
Re: We are somalis and we don’t like foreigners in our country.
Um, your government was happy be a client of the U.S. back when you were trying to fight the Ethiopians in 1977. Not so proudly independent then, were we?
Ethiopia doesn’t give a tinker’s damn about the sea. Their interest in the Somalian civil war is that they don’t want Jihadists spilling over the border and trying to turn Ethiopia into an Islamic state. As you may know from history, plenty of people have tried that in the past, some successfully for a time, so naturally Ethiopia is rather sensitive when she is flanked by two Jihadist states to the east and the west who talk warmly about Islamizing Africa.
And no, “President Bush” as much of a venal bastard as he is, didn’t turn Somalia back to the 1990s. You guys managed to mess up your country all by yourselves. Congratulations.
December 9th, 2008 at 7:09 am
hector,
only a fool like you would deny the six months of islamic rule in mogadishu was stable. only a fool like would like all that stability to be ruined because you could not bear the thought of islamists ruling somalia.
Well i got news for you. deal with it. Somalia’s business is somalia. And eithopia can invade somalia all it likes to curry feelings from america. We will fight back any invasion. And we will not rest until all the christian thugs are rooted out of somalia. Somalia is not a colony much as you would like it to be so. You will learn that the hard way.
the biggest mistake bush made was to introduce a geopolitical fight into a somali conflict. something that was not their business.
Somalis will continue the jihad to free their country from the quislings, warlords, tribal clans, militias and those pathetic cowardly eithopian animals. in six months time no eithopian pig will be in somalia and no warlord will be terrorising the people of somalia anymore.
P.S, i would love to see the your reaction if your country was invaded. No doubt you would be hailing such a move.
December 10th, 2008 at 5:53 am
Hector,
I am convinced you are like the halfwit neocons, that just like to shout with no substance.
“You guys managed to mess up your country all by yourselves. Congratulations.”
First there was the colonialist Britain,France and Italians carving somalia.
Then after independence Russia and US used the place as arms dumping ground and were playing soldiers with it.
Now the good old USA is playing minority report, and would not let what the Somalis want cos of perceived consequences later on, in the mean time causing worse disasters than the perceived one.
Oh that is the fault of Somalis. Great!!
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