Rice: I Love Palestinians So Much I Ruined Their Lives
Condoleezza Rice’s exit interview is really stunning. Check this out from the opening:
QUESTION: What’s been the best moment?
SECRETARY RICE: Well, there have been a lot of great moments: seeing the Afghans liberate themselves from the Taliban; seeing the Iraqis vote for the first time; going for the first time to the West Bank and being with Palestinians was a really special – a special time. And I think the thing I never expected was to actually be in Libya face-to-face with Colonel Qadhafi. So that probably stands out as one of the extraordinary moments.
Apparently she treasured that moment on the West Bank so much that she decided to ensure it would forever be the high point of Palestinian living. Thus, after telling the Palestinians they’d be subjected to endless Israeli occupation until they held an election, they held an election and were told they’d be subjected to endless Israeli occupation because the wrong party won. And then with the wrong party in office, Rice backed efforts to overthrow the Hamas-led government by force. That led to a civil war, a breakdown of Palestinian institutions, and a new line from Washington that the Palestinians have to be subjected to endless Israeli occupation because the Palestinian side lacks a coherent government to negotiate with. And these are her finest memories!
89 Responses to “Rice: I Love Palestinians So Much I Ruined Their Lives”
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December 18th, 2008 at 10:25 am
I wonder what Rice’s post-official career will consist of given her blinkered strategy and abject failure of execution. She’s probably a shoo-in for President of Stanford at some point, not to mention any blue ribbon foreign policy commission you care to name.
I know the United States has had a bipartisan elite establishment ruling for the sake of its own perpetuation for decades, but am I right in feeling like the current generation is unusually incompetent, unusually selfish, and unusually self-congratulatory?
December 18th, 2008 at 10:28 am
I am no defender of Secretary Rice, although I think she’s hot, but to blame her for the situation in which the Palestinians find themselves is far over the top. The fact is that the Palestinians have nobody to blame but themselves. They’re the one who elected the Hamas terrorists to the Palestinian congress, they’re the ones who reject any solution that does not include the elimination of the State of Israel, they’re the ones firing Qassems across the fence separating Israel and the Gaza Strip, they’re the ones sending homicide bombers to blow up pizza parlors. As the late Israeli former foreign minister Abba Eban once stated, the Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
The only thing the Palestinians have going for them is that they are faced with cowardly Israeli governments. They are just fortunate that they are not opposed by somebody like the late dictator of Syria, Hafaz Assad who would react to their provocations by the imposition of Hama Rules.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Afghans liberated themselves from the Taliban?
Is there something in the water in Washington or am I living in a parallel universe?
December 18th, 2008 at 10:36 am
And these are her finest memories!
What about all the fantastic shoes she bought on those overseas trips?
December 18th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Out of respect to Palestinians, lets give them some agency and ownership over their own mistakes and successes. Having a democratic election is a success. Electing a party that advocates for the destruction of your neighbor…not so much, and it’s not expected to get too much praise internationally. Yes, the US, particularly now, has not been the best partner to the Palestinians, but this theme of blaming all problems on the US and Israel and absolving Palestinians of any responsibility/blame undermines the very idea that in crediting and respecting the Palestinian people and their struggle for democracy, we also hold them to some standards.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Yes.
I assume that if, after the 2004 election, a group of Iraqis decided to overthrow the US government since we re-elected someone who was terrorizing their country, you would have absolutely no problem with that.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Rice says “being with Palestinians was a really special – a special time.” Must be an anti-Semite!
December 18th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Let’s not mince words. Condoleeza Rice is deeply delusional.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:05 am
SLC says:
“The only thing the Palestinians have going for them is that they are faced with cowardly Israeli governments. They are just fortunate that they are not opposed by somebody like the late dictator of Syria, Hafaz Assad who would react to their provocations by the imposition of Hama Rules.”
Translation: The Palestinians are fortunate that Isarel has not yet committed a genocide.
Well, maybe so. I’ll overlook the destruction of hundreds of Palestinian villages, the creation of 750,000 refugees, a 40-year brutal occupation of the West Bank, and the current criminal seige of Gaza. I’ll overlook all of that and from this day forward I will call the Palestinians “The Fortunate People.”
December 18th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Yes the Palestinians made a mistake by electing Hamas. However…
When the election were first proposed, the Israelis and General Sharon told Bush don’t let it go forward, but for whaterver reason, maybe Bush believed his rhetoric about democracy, maybe Rice advised that was the way to go, Bush overruled Sharon and the elections went forward.
Israel and the US gave Fatah nothing to show the Palestinians – and Fatah was/is corrupt (probably more so than Illinois pols) so the Palestianians went with the only other option, Hamas. It was a signal to the US and Israel and Fatah that they need to do much better. Israel then turns the Gaza strip into a giant open aired prison. Nice.
Obama should tell the Israelis “Look, we got rid of Saddam who was a huge threat to the region. Suck it up and do a deal. Iran and the Shia are rising and the demographics are against you. Iran with have nukes soon.” (at least Israel is talking with Syria via Turkey).
Rice and Gates probably had something to do with the US talking with Iran over Iraq and toning down the rhetoric.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:17 am
That “wrong party” that won the Palestinian elections is a party whose platform cites the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, whose platform promises to subject non-Muslims to a second class human status that makes the Jim Crow laws look enlightened by comparison, and whose armed wing launches rockets at the town of Sderot every morning purposely timed to when children are walking to school.
Damned straight they voted for the wrong party. Vote for Nazis, get the Dresden treatment.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:18 am
SLC: You seriously need to be on some anti-OCD drug for your fixation with “Hama Rulez.” Just sayin’.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Re Mythbuster
How about the 800,000 Jews who were expelled from Arab countries? Of course, to Israel bashers like Mr. Mythbuster, they don’t count.
Re Peter K
Do a deal with whom? The only deal the Palestinians will accept is one in which the Government of Israel agrees to go out of business. Since the Government of Israel finds this condition to be unacceptable, there doesn’t seem to be much of deal to be made here.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:58 am
OK, SLC has done his part. Still waiting for Trevor to check in with his Tourette’s word: “apartheid”.
(round and round we go….)
December 18th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Omri writes: “Damned straight they voted for the wrong party. Vote for Nazis, get the Dresden treatment.’
If you are not embarrassed by this rant, then let me be embarrased for you.
SLC writes: “How about the 800,000 Jews who were expelled from Arab countries? Of course, to Israel bashers like Mr. Mythbuster, they don’t count.”
Like all refugees, I fully support the right of Egyptian Jews, Yemeni Jews, Iraqi Jews, etc., to return to the land of their birth. What is nonsense is to argue that Zionists have a right to create Palestinian refugees because Egpyt, Iraq, Iran, etc, treated their Jewish citizens badly. And if accepting your faulty logic makes me an “Israel basher,” well, guilty as charged!
December 18th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
The last sentence should read: “And if rejecting your faulty logic makes me an “Israel basher,” well, guilty as charged!”
December 18th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Mythbuster: few of those Jews are even the slightest bit interested in returning to the countries that treated them like crap. Why should they? Their former refugee camps in Israel are decent cities now. To force them to return to second class status in those Arab countries would be to “cleanse” them TWICE.
Go to jewishrefugees.blogspot.com and get yourself an education.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
And while you’re at it, read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands
The expulsion of the “Arab” Jews began BEFORE the Palestinian refugee crisis.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
“The only deal the Palestinians will accept is one in which the Government of Israel agrees to go out of business.”
People actually believe this? Wow.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
That is the only deal Hamas, the elected representative of the Palestinians will accept.
That’s mighty strong evidence, qjk.,
December 18th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Omri: You are obviously not very intelligent. Let’s look at your comment:
“Mythbuster: few of those Jews are even the slightest bit interested in returning to the countries that treated them like crap. Why should they? Their former refugee camps in Israel are decent cities now. To force them to return to second class status in those Arab countries would be to “cleanse” them TWICE.”
What you mean to say is the Jews may have started as refugees but now do not want to return. Hence, they are no longer refugees. They are citizens of the State of Israel. And they do not return to their former homelands, because they chose not to.
Of course, your comment has nothing to do with the crime committed by Jews against the Palestinians. Just because you may have been a refugee, you have no right to make anyone else a refugee. .
Thus, endeth the lesson.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Omri: One of the first sentence of the article you cited ruins your point:
“While violence and discrimination against Jews in Arab countries started to increase several years before 1948, it escalated significantly starting in 1948 despite the fact that Jews were indigenous and for the most part held Arab citizenship.”
So the Jews were citizens of the Arab countries before 1948? Doesn’t exactly prove your point.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
How about the 800,000 Jews who were expelled from Arab countries?
How about, they’re completely irrelevant to the issue of Israel’s treatment of the captive Palestinians under their jurisdiction?
What kind of racialist b.s. is this? It’s OK for Israel to treat there people over here like cattle, because these people over here were expelled from their country of birth?
December 18th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Well, here’s a funny thing, Mythbuster. Right along the Gaza strip fence is a town called Sderot. Sderot, just like Beit Hanoun, right along the fence, both began their modern existence as refugee camps in the 1950s. Today, the people in one of these “camps” are trying to murder the children in the other by launching rockets at them right in time for morning bell in school. Yet somehow they are “victims.”
OIn 1948, to very similarly sized populations of refugees crossed into and out of Israel.
One group set out to start a new life. The other set out to wallow in self-pity.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
My radio is playing Sinatra’s “The lady is a tramp” song.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Omri says: “Well, here’s a funny thing, Mythbuster. Right along the Gaza strip fence is a town called Sderot. Sderot, just like Beit Hanoun, right along the fence, both began their modern existence as refugee camps in the 1950s. Today, the people in one of these “camps” are trying to murder the children in the other by launching rockets at them right in time for morning bell in school. Yet somehow they are “victims.””
Okay. Now I understand why you keep moving the goalposts in your argument: Your position is indefensible. We started with you trying to justify the creation of Palestinian refugees by claiming were 800,000 Jewish refugees. Now you are talking about Palestinians trying to murder children in Sderot. Well, let’s see: Israel has engaged in long seige of Gaza, including refusing to allow cancer patients out for treatment (and some have died waiting), the people are being ground into dust, i.e., Dov Weissglas joked about putting the Palestinians in Gaza on a “diet” a euphemism for slowly malnurishing their children, and earlier this year the IDF killed more than 40 Palestinian women and children during just one raid.
I understand. One Jewish child is worth at least 40 Palestinian children. Sorry, for arguing. You are truly a “light unto the nations.”
December 18th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Sheik Himam Sa’id, Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan: “Oh noble Gaza, raise your head high. You have made the Muslims raise their heads high. And you, people of Hebron – you are now waging a war against the Jews. You are well-versed in this. We saw how, on a day in 1929, you slaughtered the Jews in Hebron. Today, slaughter them on the land of Hebron. Kill them in Palestine. Arise, oh people of Palestine, all the people of Palestine – arise in defense of your Al-Aqsa Mosque, arise in defense of Nablus and Hebron. Arise and face the [PA] Preventive Security forces. Fear them not, for they are rabbits. They are wolves, so fear them not, oh lions.
(Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood).
So cruel of the Israelis not to allow this.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Omri sure does like to judge people by their ethnicity.
Everyone in Sderot is a terrorist. Every Arab is guilty of expelling Jews from every Arab country.
And to think, some of those crazy A-rabs think that Zionists are racists.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Omri also said:
“In 1948, to very similarly sized populations of refugees crossed into and out of Israel.
One group set out to start a new life. The other set out to wallow in self-pity.”
Wow. I had no idea that Israel has been under Arab occupation since 1948. I had no idea that Israelis needed permission from Abbas in order to travel abroad? Or that Jews is West Jerusalem needed to ask Palestinians permission before they could build houses or remodel them.
I guess I am too busy “wallow[ing] in self-pity” to know these things.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Omri says: “…We saw how, on a day in 1929, you slaughtered the Jews in Hebron.”
Baruch Goldstein, anyone?
December 18th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Gaza was not under Israeli occupation until 1967. What did Gaza use its non-occupied status until then? Murder and nothing else.
And now there are no Israelis patrolling Gaza. What is the ELECTED GOVERNMENT of Gaza using this for?
Murder and nothing else.
It is the stated policy of the ELECTED GOVERMENT of Gaza to murder as many ISraeli civilians as it can, and to use any avenue it can in pursuit of this. Israel has responded by shutting down many of these avenues. That bothers you a lot more than the murder of Israelis.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Mythbuster:
The Israeli population reviles Barukh Goldstein, as does the Israeli elected government.
The Palestinian population and its elected leaders make heroes out of their Barukh Goldsteins.
A distinct asymmetry.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
And this is all besides the point of this post: that somehow the self-destructive insistence of the Palestinians to elect the ghastliest among themselves to their leadership is the fault of Condie Rice.
Last I checked, the Palestinians are people with free will. They chose Hamas. They chose terrorism as the policy of their elected leaders. At least give them the dignity that comes with holding them responsible for their choices.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
The idea that Palestinians voted for the “wrong” party is such an arrogant and colonialistic opinion to hold.
And I’m not muslim or jewish, so I really don’t have a dog in this race.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
The idea that it’s “right” for the Palestinians to vote for a party whose platform explicitly speaks of subjugating non-Muslims to second class status is moronic.
The idea that it’s “right” for the Palestinians to vote for a party whose explicit policy is to murder Israeli children is just as moronic.
They voted for war. They got what they voted for. That’s democracy for you.
December 18th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Omri, like all good Zionist fanatics, tries to shut down all debate by shouting over and over about the crimes committed against the people of Israel, in excruiatingly vivid detail (”right in time for morning bell in school” oh, the horror!).
Yet, by refusing to acknowledge any Israeli culpability for the sad state of affairs in the region, he shows that he is not interested in any solution to the region’s problems, he demonstrates that hes is satisifed with a status quo of slow motion genocide.
The creed of the contemporary Zionist as the creed of genocide. I see no reason to take them serioulsy when they claim to desire a peaceful solution to the Palestinian problem (other than all of the Palestinians peacefully withering away).
December 18th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
I did not refuse to acknowledge culpability. You are the ones refusing to acknowledge the Palestinian culpability,a ndd even more ridiculously, Matt is laying the blame at Condie Rice’s feet.
They voted for a party that explicitly states and demonstrates its intent to murder Israeli children.
And brewmn, if you make the ridiculous claim that Zionism is a creed of “genocide”, you are the fanatic one.
Zionism is nothing more than the creed that Jews are people.
December 18th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Man, I sure hope that no one here who is against voting to make someone a second-class citizen voted for Proposition 8.
December 18th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Do a deal with whom? The only deal the Palestinians will accept is one in which the Government of Israel agrees to go out of business. Since the Government of Israel finds this condition to be unacceptable, there doesn’t seem to be much of deal to be made here.
Everyone knows the outlines of a deal – basically Clinton’s, but a little better for the Palestinians. Clinton’s wasn’t that good of a deal, but Arafat should have taken it anyway.
Everyone knows what a deal would look like, but Israel uses bad behavior by some Palestinians as an excuse not to do it and the US enables this for various reasons. Good news is that Israel is dealing with Syria and oil is dirt cheap which isn’t good for Iran.
December 18th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Peter: yes, everyone knows the outlines. The elected government of the Palestinians regards this deal as nothing more than a stepping stone to their next objective: the obliteration of Israel. It’s their official platform. Consider yourself in receipt of the memo, however belated.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Trust me – everybody who programs in any language is a monkey. Have you actually used any software lately? It all sucks rocks – even most of the OSS stuff. but you see for home http://www.liginmaclari.blogcu.com
December 18th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Another pointless demonstration of snarky douchery by M. Yglesias. Mazel Tov.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
“The fact is that the Palestinians have nobody to blame but themselves.” (SLC)
That’s what lots of people used to say about the Holocaust Jews. At least the Palestinians have the guts to fight back. That’s why they’re so reviled by poltroons like SLC.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Funny how the Palestinians started “fighting back” decades before the Zionists came along, and now concentrate their “fighting back” by launching rockets at schoolchildren.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
“Thlayli”? That sounds like a Tourette’s word. It’s the name you’d give a a thalidomide baby with Tourette’s.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
“and now concentrate their “fighting back” by launching rockets at schoolchildren.” (Omri)
Tit for tat. Except it’s Israeli State Policy to lure children within sniper range and then blow their heads off. (Chris Hedges, “Harper’s). And, how many Israelis period have even been harmed by rockets? 2? 3? Thousands of Palestinian children have been murdered by Nazi Jews.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Christopher Hedges is a liar.
On the day Hedges claimed that incident happend (in his Gaza Diary article), there were no children injured.
You might as well bring up how we use the blood of children in our matsa bread.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Omri: “The Israeli population reviles Barukh Goldstein, as does the Israeli elected government.”
Well, you are partially right: from Wiki—
“Goldstein is buried at the Meir Kahane Memorial Park in Kiryat Arba, a Jewish city next to Hebron. The park is named in memory of Rabbi Meir Kahane, founder of the Israeli far-right political party Kach, a group classified by the United States and Israeli governments as a terrorist organization. Goldstein was a long-time devotee of Kahane.[20]
The gravesite has become a pilgrimage site for those with extreme right-wing political views; a plaque near the grave reads “To the holy Baruch Goldstein, who gave his life for the Jewish people, the Torah and the nation of Israel.”[21] In 1996, members of the Labor Party called for the shrine-like landscaped prayer area near the grave to be removed, and Israeli security officials expressed concern that the grave would encourage extremists.[22] In 1999, following passage of a law designed to prohibit monuments to terrorists, and an associated Supreme Court ruling, the Israeli Army bulldozed the shrine and prayer area set up near Goldstein’s grave.[23]”
Ah, but those were some years. Imagine all the Kahane supporters visiting, spending a few minutes with old Goldstein. Thinking about how the Palestinians probably deserved it. They were on knees after all, clearly an aggressive posture.
As to how reviled, he is. That is in dispute. They still have the Meir Kahane Memorial Park.
Again, none of this has anything to do with your original point about Jewish refugees as justification for Palestinian refugees. Just keep moving the goal posts.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Not having a huge personal stake in either side in Israel I feel free to acknowledge that both sides are fundamentally wrong.
Israeli occupation can be really unpleasant for the Palestinians who deserve better than what they’ve got now and yes they’re obviously hoping to squeeze the Palestinians out of as much land as possible.
I can also recognize that the Palestinians don’t really have what it takes to form a state at this point in time. They seem incapable of forming any political party that’s not either completely and irredeemably corrupt (Fatah) or theocratic maniacs (Hamas). In the 90’s they were well on the road to independence, there was a feeling of optimism and Palestinians were returning from abroad to help rebuild.
And …. they pissed it all away through massive corruption (driving the returnees right back out) and not being smart enough to play the hand they had well enough to make it to the next round. Their devotion to terminally flawed leaders like Arafat and Hamas has been their tragedy as much as anything Israel has done to them. They seem less like an incipient state than a perpetually failed one that hasn’t come to grips with its status.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Uh, huh, Omri. Thanks for endorsing the idea that it’s right for Yisrael Beitenu (led by Kahanist goy SLC’s pin-up fantasy) to expect war. That’s fuckwittery for you.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
“Thousands of Palestinian children have been murdered by Nazi Jews.”
Nothing inflammatory there! Let’s hear it for reasoned discourse!
December 18th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
The Hebron settlers are nutcases. The Israeli population does not like them nor do they elect them into office.
HAMAS, however, is the ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE of the Palestinian peopl.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Omri– Ever heard of good for the goose, good for the gander?
You wrote: “The idea that it’s “right” for the Palestinians to vote for a party whose platform explicitly speaks of subjugating non-Muslims to second class status is moronic.”
What about the modern-day Likud? Clearly you don’t know much about Netanyahu (he’s already said he’s not going to advance the peace process–I always knew the Palestinians didn’t have a partner for peace) or Moshe Feiglin. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Feiglin
Now there is a class act and on the Likud List.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
When Netanyahu speaks of subjecting Muslims to rabinnical law, Mythbuster, you’ll have a comparison worth mentioning.
December 18th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Michael Farris says: “I can also recognize that the Palestinians don’t really have what it takes to form a state at this point in time. ”
Evidence? Considering that the occupation has intensified, this is a profoundly ignorant statemnt. You must be getting your news from the US mainstream media, never misses an opporunity to parrot the Zionist line.
Do you even know that when Israel “left” Gaza they made it impossible for the Palestinians to open an airport or a port. What do you think America would be like if we had no ports or airports? Moreoever, the roadblocks and Jewish-only access roads in the West Bank are designed to cripple the Palestinian movement and economic development Why don’t you check the facts before you let your inner Afrikaner hypothesize on human development.
December 18th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Mow this comment is ridiculous. Omri says, “When Netanyahu speaks of subjecting Muslims to rabinnical law, Mythbuster, you’ll have a comparison worth mentioning.”
So as long as Netanyahu screws the Palestinians with secular institutions, it’s okay?
December 18th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
The Hebron settlers are nutcases. The Israeli population does not like them nor do they elect them into office.
Yes, Omri, people with your political views are a distinct, obnoxious minority in Israel.
Which means you can stop pretending to speak for the entirety of worldwide Jewry any time now.
December 18th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
You miss the point entirely. The Israeli leadership is not ideologically committed to oppressing non-Jews.
Hamas, however, is committed to oppressing non-Muslims because they believe that to be their divine mandate.
What the Israeli leadership is committed to, however, is to hold on to that little minority enclave called Israel and prevent it from being subject to the same loving kindness that non-Muslim minorities enjoy in the rest of the Middle East.
Using whatever it takes.
Then again, you admire the Gazans for having the “guts” to launch rockets at 7:55 to try to kill children, so you are as depraved and demented as the rocketeers themselves.
December 18th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
I did not say anywhere that I support the Hebron settlers.
You are engaging in libel at this point.
What I did point out, and apparently it makes me a “zealot” to point to the elephant in the room, that the Palestinian population voted as their elected representatives, a party dedicated to oppressing non-Muslims and murdering civilians.
It’s in their founding charter. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
December 18th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Mythbuster, let’s assume that every bad thing you’re saying about Israel is true and that the Palestinians at present are totally at the mercy of evil Israelis.
Now, what are viable options for the Palestinians? Not what should Israel not do, but what should Palestinians do to improve their lot?
Somehow a civil war between corrupt begocrats and theocratic crazies wouldn’t be the option I’d choose. And that particular course of action is the Palestinian’s own choice.
December 18th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Farris says, “Mythbuster, let’s assume that every bad thing you’re saying about Israel is true and that the Palestinians at present are totally at the mercy of evil Israelis.”
So the bad things the Israelis are doing may be true, but it is no excuse for the Palestinians?
Let me guess: You’ve never been to the West Bank have you?
December 18th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Omri says: “You miss the point entirely. The Israeli leadership is not ideologically committed to oppressing non-Jews.”
No, they are just practically committed to it. And do it every day.
December 18th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Why should the Palestinians need an excuse, Mythbuster?
You ADMIRE them for sending the rockets.
Why should they need an excuse, then?
December 18th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
“So the bad things the Israelis are doing may be true, but it is no excuse for the Palestinians?”
Pretty much. Yeah.
December 18th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
How can Palestinians form a state? They are living in a network of walled enclaves with checkpoints.
December 18th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
“How can Palestinians form a state? They are living in a network of walled enclaves with checkpoints.”
Maybe they need to rethink their goals?
December 18th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Well, wiley, they could work on forming civic institutions so that supporting their quest for a state doesn’t require holding one’s nose closed….
But they’d rather send rockets at schoolchildren. The people have spoken.
December 18th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Oh Trevor, you’re so witty.
It’s a character in a book. Most adults don’t need to be told that.
I see you avoided using your favorite word in this thread, so i count that as a small victory.
December 18th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Omri said: “Why should the Palestinians need an excuse, Mythbuster?
You ADMIRE them for sending the rockets.
Why should they need an excuse, then?”
I never said this. So you are forced to fabricate arguments that I never made to justify your own hollow ones.
December 18th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Farris said:
“‘So the bad things the Israelis are doing may be true, but it is no excuse for the Palestinians?’
Pretty much. Yeah.”
Pretty much the mindset of American diplomats and their attempts at being “good faith” peace brokers.
Is it surprising that our diplomacy is so ineffective?
December 18th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Farris said:
“How can Palestinians form a state? They are living in a network of walled enclaves with checkpoints.”
Maybe they need to rethink their goals?”
Translation: It is not really about terrorism at all. The Palestinians just live on land that the Zionists want. That’s their real crime.
Thanks, Farris. It’s rare for someone to let that cat slip out of the bag.
December 18th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
You’re right, Mythbuster. Got you mixed with Trevor. Which is not to say that you aren’t an idiot. See here:
“Translation: It is not really about terrorism at all. The Palestinians just live on land that the Zionists want. That’s their real crime. ”
No, their crime is launching rockets at Sderot schoolchildren at 7:50m AM every morning.
And last I checked, murder is a crime.
December 18th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Mythbuster, get it through your head that not everyone who finds fault with Palestinians is a zionist. Israel has plenty wrong with it and has acted in bad faith a lot of times.
It’s basically a Balkan (metaphoric not literal) ethno-religist state with no shortage of corruption, dangerous extremists and an appetite for their neighbor’s land and a victim chip on its shoulder.
Basically what I’m saying about the Palestinians (as dispassionately as possible, I don’t harbor strong feelings one way or the other about tehm) is that they don’t have what it takes for a viable state. Even if Israel disappeared tomorrow they wouldn’t be able to organize a state that any sane person would want to live in. There’s no evidence whatsoever that it would anything but another pan-Arabist, vaguely theocratic kleptocracy. The problem is that there’s no way for that kind of entity to arise on its own, it has to called into existence by outside fiat (like the other Pan-Arabist vaguely theocratic kleptocracies in the middle east).
There’s nothing stopping Palestinians from putting the considerable financial aid they receive into more productive projects than those they’re currently choosing. If they choose to continue to pour all their efforts into dead end useless projects then there’s no need for me to be especially symapthetic to them.
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