Guests of Honor
Dana Perino says we’re not occupiers in Iraq, we’re “guests”:
QUESTION: But he wasn’t a guest. We’re occupiers.
PERINO: No, we’re not. We are absolutely a guest.
This is part of the sick culture of self-deception in which the Iraq War has gotten wrapped up. We invaded Iraq by force, dropping ordnance and firing lethal weapons. And our present there has been deeply unpopular for years. Our forces aren’t subject to Iraqi law. We just concluded a series of negotiations in which the main sticking point was that the Iraqi government wanted us to promise to leave the country and we didn’t want to. That’s an occupation. Perhaps Perino thinks, falsely, that the occupation serves the strategic interests of the United States. But this kind of denial is not helpful to understanding our situation in the world.
98 Responses to “Guests of Honor”
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December 16th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Also I guess nobody much cares any more how that term “guest” was used with regard to Iraq a million years ago in Gulf War 1.
December 16th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Isn’t it clear that it’s just standard doublespeak? The Bush administration has been doing this for years.
I’m excited to not live in an orwellian state.
December 16th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Reminds me of the Tom Friedman column. The aim of the invasion of Iraq was “collaborating with them to build progressive politics.”
December 16th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Was it Ben Franklin who said, “guests, like fish, begin to stink after three days.”
We’ve been invited to leave. Time to back your bags.
December 16th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Matt — let’s be clear here. This is not self-deception. Dana Perino doesn’t believe a word she’s saying. This is lying — saying something you know to be untrue in the hopes that the listener(s) will believe it to be true and adjust their actions accordingly.
December 16th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Yes we are guests. Just like the guys we are treating so lavishly at Guantanamo are our guests.
December 16th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
This is the danger of creating your own version of reality. As the Bush administration’s world diverges more and more from the real world, they continue to act as if their version is the correct one. Totally insane.
December 16th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Just like Israelis who have been the guests of Palestinian since 1948.
December 16th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
The mere fact of unpopularity doesn’t make a foreign army an occupier in the sense of being illegitimate, if a legitimate representative government gives consent to its presence. We’re not “occupiers” of Japan, even though we invaded it, even if the populace of Okinawa doesn’t like us and would like just to leave, and even if you found a poll of the Japanese at large saying the same thing. If the Japanese government told us to leave and we did not, then we’d be occupiers.
The legitimate elected government of Iraq would like us out sooner, but they also want all sort of other help with their army and guarantees, implicit or otherwise, against attack by their neighbors. If they didn’t want those things, they could and would tell us to leave sooner. If we refused, we’d be occupiers. But they do want those things, and in return we negotiated more time because that’s what we think is required to brings things to a successful conclusion.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Re Farid
Just like Israelis who have been the guests of Palestinian since 1948.
Mr. Farid has it backwards. The Fakestinians have been unwanted guests of the true inhabitants of Palestine for 2000 years.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
If Perino thinks we’re guests, she should lay her money on the line. When she’s done with this job, she should vacation in Iraq. After all, if we’re guests, she should be a valued guest, and trust me, that makes for a great vacation. I’m sure she has reservations in Baghdad to see the fabulous progress we’ve made. Or she should admit he obvious: White House Press secretaries are hired to lie. We’ll see which she does, but I’m guessing we all know which decision she’ll make.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
“Just like Israelis who have been the guests of Palestinian since 1948.”
I’m hoping you’re just being facetious. There are a lot of Palestinians who have been ‘guests’ of the Israelis. Want to go there?
December 16th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
The agreement Matt refers to specifically says that Iraq can ask us to leave at any time and that the US will abide any such request. They haven’t asked us to leave.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
More and more I’m thinking that that shoe-throwing thing was actually pretty awesome. I mean, think about. It took some dude throwing a shoe at Bush to get the media to start talking about the legitimacy (or lack thereof) of the occupation. I know it will last about five minutes, but still.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Of course we’re guests. This has all just been an enormous BYOB (Bring Your Own Bombs) party.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Wake up, Matt. Our government and the elected government of Iraq just concluded an agreement, under the direction of our old/new Secretary of Defense, who is now the carrier of a direct line of policy continuity from the Bush administration to the Obama administration, an agreement which was ratified by the Iraqi parliament, that contains such passages as:
Article 4
Missions
The Government of Iraq requests the temporary assistance of the United States Forces for the purposes of supporting Iraq in its efforts to maintain security and stability in Iraq, including cooperation in the conduct of operations against al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups, outlaw groups, and remnants of the former regime.
2. All such military operations that are carried out pursuant to this Agreement shall be conducted with the agreement of the Government of Iraq. Such operations shall be fully coordinated with Iraqi authorities. The coordination of all such military operations shall be overseen by a Joint Military Operations Coordination Committee (JMOCC) to be
established pursuant to this Agreement. Issues regarding proposed military operations that cannot be resolved by the JMOCC shall be forwarded to the Joint Ministerial
Committee.
Article 6
Use of Agreed Facilities and Areas
1. With full respect for the sovereignty of Iraq, and as part of exchanging views between the Parties pursuant to this Agreement, Iraq grants access and use of agreed facilities and
areas to the United States Forces, United States contractors, United States contractor employees, and other individuals or entities as agreed upon by the Parties.
2. In accordance with this Agreement, Iraq authorizes the United States Forces to exercise within the agreed facilities and areas all rights and powers that may be necessary
to establish, use, maintain, and secure such agreed facilities and areas. The Parties shall coordinate and cooperate regarding exercising these rights and powers in the agreed facilities and areas of joint use.
You get it? Note:
“requests the temporary assistance of the United States Forces”
“conducted with the agreement of the Government of Iraq”
“Iraq grants access and use of agreed facilities and
areas to the United States Forces”
“Iraq authorizes the United States Forces to exercise within the agreed facilities and areas”
You insisted on portraying this development as a victory for the good guys, Matt. Well happy fucking SOFA! Perino is right. Whatever we were before, we are now guests of the Iraqi government.
Matt, you and your acolytes are the biggest bunch of saps this side of the Tigris.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
The Fakestinians have been unwanted guests of the true inhabitants of Palestine for 2000 years.
By the “true inhabitants of Palestine for 2000 years” I hope you’re not referring to Jews from Germany, Russia, etc. who migrated to Israel in the 20th Century. All those Ashkenazi Jews who had been living in Europe since about 300 A.D.? Were the Palestinians just house-sitting for them?
December 16th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
“I’m hoping you’re just being facetious. There are a lot of Palestinians who have been ‘guests’ of the Israelis. Want to go there?”
Wow, that was stupid. Your name is Farid. You probably do want to go there. And you have every right to. You probably know damn well what it’s like to be a ‘guest’ of the Israelis. There was a brief time when that didn’t mean torture, but that’s gone now. Sorry about that.
December 16th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Ooh, a status of forces agreement with people who owe their existence to the bombs of the Bush regeime. What a glorious day it is when the puppets “request assistance.”
Only someone truly stupid believes that we are not occupying the nation. Guess which idiot’s name is in that envelope in this thread Dan?
Dan, tell us all a story? Maybe about when we were invited to overthrow Saddam Hussein? Wait, no how about the one where the big bad man is a threat to the United States? Oooh, I know, tell us all about how much better life is when you have less electricity, millions of refugees and generally worse conditions than under a brutal dictator.
You are one sick fucker Dan.
December 16th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
If we were a real Republic –hell, if we were just a half-ass repressive oligarchy, then one of our whoring reporters would have the courage to take off his shoe and throw it at Dana, yelling “Fuck you, you lying bitch.”
Anyone seen any sign of rebellion among our court scribes –excuse me, our “independent Reporters” over the last 8 years?
December 16th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
How about just asking the question : “Dana, has the Bush Administration conducted any covert or clandestine operations inside Iraq since 2002 directed at installing the current Iraqi regime in power — and at crippling any political opposition to our puppets –er, our hosts?”
“Any money changed hands, Dana? If so, how much and too whom?”
“PS What do you think of Scott McClellan’s assertion that the Bush White House is so crooked that it even lies to its own press spokeman?”
December 16th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Evil Twin,
This is the third or fourth time in the past several weeks that my position has been mistaken for that of a supporter of the Iraq War. I am puzzled. Exactly how much spleen, misanthropic bitterness and spitting rage do I have to pack into my posts before people like yourself stop making this egregious mistake?
My position is that the Iraq War was a hideous crime and a gross atrocity, and that George Bush is a war criminal who should be in jail. It is also my view that this crime has been enabled by inconstant and confused beltway liberals who have who offered little but a mixture of foolish support, fuzzy ambivalence and ineffectual and clueless opposition all along the way.
It is my view that in addition to the war in Iraq, we have been fighting a political war here at home over the war. The political war is a war of attrition. It’s goal is to grind down the opposition and win the gradual acquiescence of the country and its political class in the administration’s initial goal of turning Iraq into a client regime of the US government, via military conquest. That acquiescence might only come in the form of passive disregard and ironic boredom with the whole affair. But that is enough for Bush to achieve political victory.
If that political war is won, it represents a victory of force over the rule of law, and another defeat and step back for the forces of civilization. It is another instance of the “acquisition of territory by force” which the United Nations, among other institutions, was established to prevent. Peace loses yet again, and the persistent application of the force of arms by the captains of state achieves its aims, costly though the victory may be. States like the US don’t acquire imperial holdings in the old-fashioned way, by exerting direct governance from their capitals, but they acquire them none the less.
It is my view that George Bush has probably won that political war, to our permanent shame. It came at the cost of his own reputation and popularity, and even electoral defeat for his party. It comes in a form that allows supercilious wits like Matt to laugh at Bush and think they have won. But the fact is that we have been in Iraq since 2003, have built a fortress-like embassy and several military bases. And there is no real sign we are going anywhere. Bush’s administration has just concluded an agreement with the government of Iraq that entitles us to remain in Iraq for three more years. Obama continues to promise to pull combat troops out of Iraq before then, but has said nothing that commits him to discontinue the process of incorporating Iraq into the American empire. The man who has been in charge of winding down the military phase of the takeover on behalf of the Bush administration, and institutionalizing it on paper, is now actually the Secretary of Defense of the incoming Obama administration! So it looks to me like Bush has succeeded. Although his Iraq prize was won at much greater cost than he could have imagined, he has achieved what he wanted to achieve. And the opponents of wars of aggression and empire have lost. We were never able to end the war when it would have made a difference. And now it is too late.
We had our chance to win the political war in 2006, after the election. But through a combination of pusillanimity, betrayal and weakness we missed our chance. So in my estimation, Bush won the political war.
December 16th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Dan: You may very well be right. I’m just not convinced it’s settled yet. When I am optimistic, the ‘political war’ to justify the conquest of Iraq may never be truly confronted and overturned, but perhaps left in a weakened state which may yet emerge to reinfect. But I’m not always optimistic.
December 16th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Which eye was she hit with the microphone? I can’t tell.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
If there is still hope, El Cid, then it is important for opponents of the war to recommit themselves to the goal of making sure the United States does not establish a permanent military-political foothold in Iraq of any kind: no bases, no vast strategic regional headquarters in Baghdad, no “residual forces” or “military advisers”, and no damn SOFAs. Otherwise the young Matt Yglesiases of the future, during the next debate on the next unprovoked war of imperial aggression and material acquisition, will look back on the Iraq “lessons” and draw the conclusion that brute force does sometimes work and achieve its aim. If we let aggression prosper in this instance, we make it easier for it to prosper again in the future.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
It is also my view that this crime has been enabled by inconstant and confused beltway liberals who have who offered little but a mixture of foolish support, fuzzy ambivalence and ineffectual and clueless opposition all along the way.
Hey, it’s not very nice to talk about Matt that way on his own blog.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:00 am
“The Fakestinians have been unwanted guests of the true inhabitants of Palestine for 2000 years.”
true inhabitants like jews from poland, estonia, russia, germany and the rest of planet right?
What a delusional stupid old man. Go smoke doobie it’s good for your geriatric issues.
December 17th, 2008 at 3:32 am
Dan your characterization of the Status of Forces Agreement sounded an awful lot like an apology for Bush’s war and your tone of condescension matched that of the war apologists. The fact is we have an “invitation” from people who are bargaining from under the boot heel of the occupiers. At this late date there are far too many who purposely misconstrue every single document – starting from the UN authorization of the first Bush war on Iraq up to and including the SOFA.
Therefore I am not clear on the intent of your post. Do you honestly think that the document could say otherwise? It isn’t an agreement to keep the troops in, it is an agreement to get them out. It is an agreement that is likely to have little support from the people of Iraq.
That you are continually mistaken for a war supporter suggests that perhaps you might try to make your points clearer. That you imply misanthropic rage as a basis for my post, when the truth is a rage against real fucking misanthropes who murdered innocent Iraqis with their idiocy, makes me less likely to give you the benefit of the doubt. I do here, but I’m not amused by your self-righteousness. You have no reason to care, but it doesn’t hurt to remember: how you are viewed is a product of your posts. Again, if your position is continually misunderstood maybe it isn’t your readers.
December 17th, 2008 at 3:51 am
As to the substance, hell, the United States demonstrated that it had no commitment to the principles enshrined in our founding documents when we elected Bush to office – in spite of his having draw us into an unprovoked war of aggression. That the Democrats after 2006 did not use their power to end the war merely heaped more shame upon us as a nation and them as “leaders.”
Yes, Bush has won the political war at home in much the way you claim. But it was going to be that way. Why? Because there is a sick fetishization of the military. There is someone who goes by Davis X. Machina who claims, with great justification, that Iraq was the world’s most expensive campaign commercial. This only works if your nation thinks that troops in the field means “you must support those who sent them.” Sure it’s a dumb idea, but can you honestly say that isn’t what happens here?
It isn’t just that the Iraq war is a disaster that reveals how lame the Democrats are. That the war on Iraq could happen after the war on Vietnam reveals that the United States is run by small vicious little children who pull the wings off flies for sport.
The Democrats are terrible, but the war was put together by the Republicans. The Republicans are monsters.
December 17th, 2008 at 3:51 am
As to the substance, hell, the United States demonstrated that it had no commitment to the principles enshrined in our founding documents when we elected Bush to office – in spite of his having draw us into an unprovoked war of aggression. That the Democrats after 2006 did not use their power to end the war merely heaped more shame upon us as a nation and them as “leaders.”
Replace that with the slightly more grammatical and (hopefully clearer):
As to the substance, hell, the United States demonstrated that it had no commitment to the principles enshrined in our founding documents when we elected Bush to office in 2004 – in spite of his having drawn us into an unprovoked war of aggression. That the Democrats after 2006 did not use their power to end the war merely heaped more shame upon us as a nation and them as “leaders.”
December 17th, 2008 at 8:24 am
Therefore I am not clear on the intent of your post. Do you honestly think that the document could say otherwise? It isn’t an agreement to keep the troops in, it is an agreement to get them out. It is an agreement that is likely to have little support from the people of Iraq.
Evil Twin,
The point of the war as I see it was to change the government of a strategically vital Middle Eastern state via military force, to turn that state into a client of the US global system, and to receive in exchange a base for US military, intelligence and diplomatic operations in the heart of Middle East oil country.
The main reason to oppose the war, in my view, is not that it wouldn’t be a good thing for the US to have friendly relations with a Middle East state, but that there are international rules to uphold on the permissible use of force – rules that are supposed to limit force to either the defense of one’s country against aggression or the participation in UN-authorized operations to keep the peace. Neither of those justifications was in place here. So the Iraq War was an illegal and unjust war. Building friendly and cooperative relations with foreign countries is fine; killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people to accomplish this end, while torturing others and driving millions into refugee status, is not fine. It is an international crime.
A measure of the success of the war’s aims would come if and when the fighting slowed down and the US presence in Iraq was allowed to transition into an agreement with the newly created Iraqi government for the stationing of US military and non-military personnel in the country. That’s what happened in the other defeated enemies that are now part of the US global system – such as Japan.
Now it seems to me that is precisely what is happening. A SOFA agreement is an operating license for the extension of empire into a new country. Yes, this SOFA calls for troops to be removed, but in the meantime it gives them permission to continue to operate in Iraq for three more years, which I would submit is quite a long time. We’ll have to see which way things go in the future, but it seems to me the US and Iraqi governments are attempting to engineer their publics into accepting a soft landing into a permanent military arrangement. If this arrangement is allowed to take hold, then the aims of the war are accomplished.
Obama supports an accelerated timetable for the removal of combat troops, some of which he wants to re-deploy elsewhere. But he is going to leave various kinds of troops behind, and I see no clear evidence that he opposes the completion of the project of incorporating Iraq as a clinet into the US global system.
December 17th, 2008 at 8:24 am
Re Farid
1. How about Jews from Iraq, some 1/2 million of whom were ethnically cleansed from that country in 1949.
2. DNA evidence now positively proves that Jews from Europe are closely related to Jews from Arab countries. Just for Mr. Farids’ information, they are descendants from Jews who were forced to flee for their lives after the Roman crackdown in the 1st century CE.
3. The Fakestinians are mostly descended from immigrants from elsewhere in the Arab world who migrated to Palestine during the latter half of the 19th century, drawn there by economic developments which were occurring there due to competition between Great Britain and Germany. As I have pointed out previously in this blog, the American writer Mark Twain visited Palestine in the early 1870s and found the place almost depopulated. Thus, the notion that they are descended from people who have lived there for centuries is a big lie that Mr. Farids’ hero, Josef Goebbels would have been proud of.
December 17th, 2008 at 9:10 am
Re SLC’s comment “DNA evidence now positively proves that Jews from Europe are closely related to Jews from Arab countries. ”
—————
One could argue that white slaveholders in the Old South were “closely related” to the mulattos on their plantations — that didn’t motivate the slaveholders to spare the lash.
Haim Saban is a Middle Eastern Jew — his family resided in Egypt before moving to Israel in 1956. Here is how he described his reception by European Jews in Israel:
[Haaretz]How hard was it being a Mizrahi [Jew of Middle Eastern descent] in 1960s Israel?
[Saban] “For some reason I was always with Polish girls. In Ben Shemen [boarding school] there was no problem. Sephardi, Ashkenazi, it wasn’t part of the lexicon. But when I had a Polish girlfriend in a Tel Aviv high school, her mother told her, ‘If you bring that schwarze haya [black animal] home, I will jump from the balcony.’”
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/798292.html
December 17th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Re SLC’s comment “DNA evidence now positively proves that Jews from Europe are closely related to Jews from Arab countries.”
————-
By the same token, the Apaches have a strong claim to the oil deposits of Eastern Siberia.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:03 am
A similar process created the Dutch. Are they all fake too?
Speaking as an American, or a Fakamerican as you’d probably call me, living on the land since the latter half of the 19th century seems like a good claim to me. So does living on the land since 1967 though.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Re Don Williams
Gee, the blogs resident Bolshevik is all bent out of shape because his favorite whipping boy, Haim Saban, was the victim of racial discrimination in Israel. I didn’t notice that he voted with his feet and returned to Egypt. Given the wretched record of European Americans toward African Americans over the last 3 centuries, this looks like pretty small beer in comparison, in addition to which, Caucasians like Mr. Williams and myself are poorly placed to point fingers at others.
Re Njori
Mr. Njori obviously is missing the point of my comment. The Fakestinians fraudulently claim over and over again that their families have lived in Palestine for centuries and that the Jews are interlopers. For most of them, this is nothing but an example of Josef Goebbels big lie.
As a matter of fact, IMHO, residents of the US are poorly placed to level criticism at either party in Palestine as we live on land stolen from Native Americans, against whom genocide was inflicted in the 19th century.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:47 am
I don’t respect anyone’s DNA-based arguments for any land.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:50 am
I think it’s time to blow up Dana Peroxide’s front door, storm inside, shoot her cat, cut off her power and water, and then invite in a few former residents to decide on redecorating. In a few years, she can sign a SOFA. On her sofa.
As for the Silly Lying Kahanist, since he’s as Jewish as Dana Perino’s cat, this is all faintly amusing.
December 17th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Re pseudonymous in nc
Ms. Perino is being paid to lie and she is doing a good job of it. All presidential press secretaries are paid to lie.
December 17th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Since this thread has already been hijacked by the Arab/Israeli debaters, I will add my own two cents.
@ Farid + Jeebus:
How do you think those Jews ended up in Russia, Estonia, Germany, Poland, etc.?
It was after the destruction of the Jerusalem and the Second Temple and the conquest of Judea by Titus and the Roman legions in 70 A.D. that the NATIVE Jewish population was exiled from Judea, with many heading North towards Europe, some moving West to North Africa and others moving East to Iraq, India, and even as far as China.
Prior to 70 A.D., there is documented proof of continuous Jewish settlement within Israel stretching back at least 1000 years. This predates similar evidence for Palestinians by at least 500 years. These are the accepted historical facts.
IMHO, the history is irrelevant to the issue as it stand today. If Palestinians are proven to be chronologically secondary in their claims to Jews, will it make a difference? Will Arabs admit defeat, pack up their bags and go home? If the reverse could be proven, that the Jewish claim is secondary, would they renounce their claims?
The historical debate might be argued on its own merits, but it is only relevant to itself and has no bearing on the Arab-Israeli conflict on the ground.
December 17th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Re Little L Liberal’s comment “It was after the destruction of the Jerusalem and the Second Temple and the conquest of Judea by Titus and the Roman legions in 70 A.D. that the NATIVE Jewish population was exiled from Judea, with many heading North towards Europe, some moving West to North Africa and others moving East to Iraq, India, and even as far as China.
Prior to 70 A.D., there is documented proof of continuous Jewish settlement within Israel stretching back at least 1000 years. This predates similar evidence for Palestinians by at least 500 years. These are the accepted historical facts.”
—————–
Er..No.
A few years after Titus and Vespasian’s conquest of Judea, the Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus wrote about it. Some of Tacitus’s points:
a) The Jews were not native to Palestine — there were at least three theories of their origins, none of which was conclusive. (One of the theories was that they were from Ethiopia originally , which has some support from recent DNA studies.)
b) The Jews did not occupy Israel as a result of a successful rebellion against Egypt’s Pharoah — rather, they were expelled into the wilderness by the Pharoah as a quarantine measure against leprosy.
c) For most of the period in which they occupied Israel, the Jews were slaves to one or another Great Power in the region (Egypt, Babylon, etc.). They were able to establish independence for only a short time window when the strength of the Great Powers waned for one reason or another. Tacitus refers to them as a “race cursed by the gods”. Given Israel’s geography, one can see why.
d) Three separate factions of Israelites were engaged in a Civil War within Jerusalem even as the Roman Army marched into the surrounding area to lay seige.
See http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/t/tacitus/t1h/hist5.html
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