Nov 5th, 2008 at 7:51 am
Thought of the Day
Barack Obama bringing Indiana and Virginia into the Democratic column for the first time since the 1964 landslide reflects the enduring “center-right” nature of American politics.
Seriously — what would falsify the center-right thesis if not a political sweep by left-of-center candidates?
UPDATE: Brokaw on Morning Joe cited as evidence for the center-right thesis the idea that a majority of land area in the United States, if you measure it on the county level, voted for McCain.
100 Responses to “Thought of the Day”
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November 5th, 2008 at 8:06 am
1) Don’t know what you mean — in REAL AMERICA, i.e., West Virginia, Kentucky, Alabama, Texas,etc — McCain won by large margins.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:08 am
So does this still amount to “unambiguous” support for progressive policies?
If an election can actually do that, particularly a 52-48 sort of election, does the same elections result’s regarding gay marriage amount to unambiguous resistence to that concept?
Not a question regarding the wisdom of the policies… just a question regarding how much we can read into the results.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:11 am
More seriously, the Democratic Party needs to destroy the malign culture that is binding the Red State South together. We are living in the equivalent of 1850 –and somethings gonna snap.
IT is a culture created by rich men — for the benefit of rich men. It gives propagandists like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly great wealth. It runs the much of the news media in the South, it owns Country and Western music, and it owns the Megachurchs with their TV network. It needs to be taken apart piece by piece.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:13 am
The idea isn’t to reflect reality, or the American view of the center. The idea is to try and bend Obama to the will of the corporate and political elite. They could care less about reality, as far as they are concerned this will always be a center-right nation because they themselves are center-right.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:13 am
Minor update:
Latest totals from Georgia’s SOS indicate that Saxby Chambliss has not gotten 50% of the vote, thus perhaps leading to a runoff.
But votes are still being counted. However, reportedly (newspapers) many of the counties still remaining to be counted are urban & heavily African-American. Final voting totals would seem to be higher than 3.57M, given that 1.9M voted early. But who knows.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:24 am
I haven’t seen anyone mention the strange fact that it looks like Stevens improbably won re-election in Alaska. What a strange state.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:25 am
Republican wins confirm the center right wing nature of the USA. Republican losses confirm the center right wing nature of the USA. There were a lot of people pushing this last night. They seemed oblivious as to how stupid this sounds.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:29 am
Barack ‘n’ Roll!
November 5th, 2008 at 8:33 am
As a practical matter, though, the disappointing Senate pickup truly will make it difficult to pass progressive legislation. Even if Obama really is a stealth progressive (and color me skeptical about that), he’ll have a tough row to hoe.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Tax cuts, greater fiscal responsibility, a more restrained foreign policy…The country, and the Democratic party, has come a long way since LBJ’s 1964 Matthew.
Tread lightly with some of these policy decisions, this election had less to do with issues last night and far more to do with changing the politicians in power. Things like carbon caps, card check, increased corporate taxes…Trust me, while these are all fodder for the base, they will end up being political losers. Today Obama can afford to take those chances, but decisions have consequences, and it’s the consequences that you’re not thinking about.
Of course it’s a center-right country. The problem for the Republicans is that they don’t understand that they’re not center-right.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:37 am
In other words, most of the empty space voted for McCain.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:40 am
I had no idea land could vote.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Well, you see, “the US is center-right” is an axiom– so inferences and logic and facts and so forth just don’t go there.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:51 am
As a practical matter, though, the disappointing Senate pickup truly will make it difficult to pass progressive legislation.
Why is it that the Democrats didn’t dare use the filibuster more than a handful of times when they were in the minority, far fear that the public would turn on them for being obstructionist–but the Republicans get to filibuster every damn thing with impunity?
Rethinking Democratic conventional wisdom about politics is what the Obama campaign was about–let’s apply a bit of that attitude here. Either end the filibuster rule in the process of organizing the Senate this time around–or politically crucify the R’s for blocking the attempts of the adminstration to deal with the country’s urgent needs.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:53 am
A rehash of the old property = right to vote argument. How much of that land is owned by the Federal Government? What is the value of that land? Should people who by a bunch of cheap land have more rights than anyone else.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Of course I agree with you- but how much confidence do you have in Harry Reid? Mine is approximately 0.
Getting a Democratic Congress in line is historically one of the greatest challenges a Democratic president can face- it’s like herding cats, only harder. And Obama’s disappointing lack of coattails won’t help. Neither will Obama’s obsession with bipartisanship (he’s not going to politically crucify anybody, and Harry certainly isn’t either.). I’m afraid we’ll be living mostly off symbolism for at least a couple more years.
Naturally I’d love to be dead wrong.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:03 am
tom brokaw: dumb as dirt.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:06 am
I am deeply insulted by that comparison.
Sincerely, Dirt
November 5th, 2008 at 9:06 am
Re the filibuster, if you can’t bribe two or three Republican Senators, you’re not even trying.
They hung together in a monolith during the Bush Administration because that monolith was in power. Now Republicans are in the wilderness. As Andrew would say, it’s every man for himself –and bugger the hindmost.
Every Senator has a lot of hungry constituents and donors whose economic fortunes are deeply dependent upon federal regulations, laws and spending. Even Mitch McConnell now understands that he’s not immortal.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Re “tom brokaw: dumb as dirt ”
———–
Do you think tom brokaw became a multi-millionaire by asking embarrassing questions? Or that news anchors are paid for their intelligence?
They are paid $millions to ENSURE that they read the Text, the Whole Text, and NOTHING but the Text.
That they don’t “go off message”. Don’t “Go Rogue” as the McCain people say.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Yeah, getting all those dixiecrats and hard-line cold-warriors to cooperate with the rest of the party is always difficult.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:13 am
This preoccupation with labeling and pigeon holing every voter is a result of the ever-contracting amount of time television devotes to news and discussion. It is too messy and time consuming to look at the electorate like they really are (when you’ve got to rush before the next reality show comes on): diverse racially, economically, socially, etc. Luckily, we now have the Internet that provides gobs of space at low cost, and allows lots of smart people to write to their heart’s content about things. This allows the discussion to analyze the many shades of gray that make a farce of the black & white discussion TV provides.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:14 am
Most people don’t know this, but you don’t need to “herd” cats. Just show them something they want to do and they will all rush along together.
Mavericks, that’s a different matter. By definition, they’re the steers too dumb to follow the herd to water. They’re the ones you have to herd.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:19 am
So the Matanuska-Susitna Borough in AK has 25,000 sq mi and Chicago has 250. Tom Brokaw thinks we should count the votes of the 59,000 people in Mat-Su as 100x more important the 2,900,000 in Chicago. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
November 5th, 2008 at 9:24 am
For gosh sakes, would some slap Tom Brokaw. He’s embarrassing himself and throwing away his reputation by uttering such a moronic bit of garbage.
Tom, here’s the thing. Land masses don’t vote in federal elections. People do. End of discussion.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Evidently Brokaw is under the impression that the US is a fimarchy (from “fimus”).
November 5th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Mavericks, that’s a different matter. By definition, they’re the steers too dumb to follow the herd to water.
No they aren’t. By definition, they’re unbranded cattle.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:45 am
One acre, one vote!
November 5th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Don Williams: You are exactly wrong. The Republican party would LOVE to see Democrats engage in a culture war. It’s the only way they can hold on to those Southern/Western voters. Democrats are winning in places like Virginia, Colorado, and North Carolina by talking about health care and the economy while waiting for old racists and culture warriors to die off and be replaced by young and minority Democratic voters. If Democrats made a concerted effort to crush red-state culture they would just provoke a lot of 20-something NASCAR and country-music fans to emulate their parents’ racist and reactionary politics.
By backing off on God, guns, and gays Democrats are able to convince some of these people to vote for the most competent candidate and support their own rational economic self-interest. Notice how little was made of abortion, gun control, and gay rights in this election – that’s why you saw the big Obama victory. Obama is able to signal to liberal vegetarian gay college students for Tibet that he’s cool without losing all of the Bubba votes. It’s sort of like how W was able to signal to holy-war-seeking religious nuts that he was one of them without letting the rest of us see him for what he was in 2000, except less pernicious because Obama is competent.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:47 am
On reflection I do have one hopeful thought. I’m sure there is more than enough institutional memory of 1994 left in the party to remind them of the consequences for Congressional Democrats themselves if they don’t work overtime to help their own President be a success.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:48 am
This county nonsense was just as annoying in 2004. Frustratingly stupid. Just in PA , where I live, we have Philadelphia County with 1.5 million people and Elk County, with 15,000 residents.
And since Elk County covers a lot more ground, it looks much more impressive on those red blue maps too!
Although, unlike Kerry, Obama actually won Elk County last night (rather improbably I might add).
November 5th, 2008 at 9:48 am
It’s not one acre, one vote.
It’s one person, one vote.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Brokaw is not alone in this “center-right” blathering. Incredibly, last night on CBS, Didi Myers dropped it in there. Katie Couric didn’t challenge it, but when a Democrat says it (even an idiot like DDM), why should she? Am I the only relativist out there who thinks that, by definition, wherever the majority of Americans are must be “the center” — even if its off a cliff?
November 5th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Maybe Brokaw forgot that property ownership is no longer a prerequisite to voting in this country.
hancock
November 5th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Wow, a newsclown has an opinion! He needs to put on his greasepaint and rubber nose and stick to reading what’s on the teleprompter.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:05 am
It must piss Brokaw off to no end that Alaska has just as many Senators as California.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:13 am
“Center right” works if you consider the center by objective, international standards. When the GOP says “center” it means the center of the Republican base, and their “right” is the wingnut fever swamps.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Re cgaros’s comment “Don Williams: You are exactly wrong. The Republican party would LOVE to see Democrats engage in a culture war. It’s the only way they can hold on to those Southern/Western voters. ”
————–
1) This is bullshit, in my opinion. I was reared in the South — southern Appalachia. I worked construction and in coal mines to get through school.
2) Modern-day Southern Culture is a COMMERCIAL CONSTRUCT. Evil wealthy men , with the dictatorial mindset of an old plantation owner or small town mill owner, created and sustain it for malign reasons. Evil men who take all the virtues of the Southern people and manipulate them for the rich men’s selfish agendas.
3) Willy Nelson had to go to Austin to record music –because any kind of a social critic will NOT find work in Nashville. The whole place is one big propaganda mill — which is why country music is so goddam sterile. IT’s basically a corporate newsletter set to a tune.
4) I remember talking to my brother in southwest Virginia back in 2004 –and him expressing anger at how the Country and Western business was milking the death and sacrifice of the military for all it was worth. Singers trying to get rich by waving the flag and extolling a fake patriotism.
5) Younger Southern evangelists are themselves challenging the people like John Hagee and Pat Robertson and James Dobson. Arguing that one can not look at US policy in the Middle East — at the plight of the Palestinians and Iraqi people –and argue that that is what Jesus would have supported. The Whores have no trouble getting unmarked bills in the collection plate — but who is supporting their opponents in the Southern Baptist Convention?
6) The Bush Administration — and the Republican reign in Congress from 1994 to 2006 — are the result of DEMOCRATIC policies.
A few Democratic billionaires figured they would buy expensive air time on the Eastern and Western seaboards to grab the votes of those urbanized areas — and to hell with the people of Red State “flyover country”.
Howard Dean had to fight like crazy within the Party for his 50 state strategy — the strategy that destroyed McCain last night even though McCain had rock-solid backing in the South.
7) You piss away $1 Trillion on a political war against Al Qaeda in Iraq — yet you spend nothing for a political war in the South.
You’re fighting the wrong war in the wrong place against the wrong people.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Steve LaBonn @30 is exactly right. Right wing idiots keep saying that the 94 Repug takeover happened because Clinton “over-reached” and “governed too far to the left” – all of which is ridiculous nonsense. He got in there and forced NAFTA through over the objections of his own party, and lost a bunch of support immediately which cost him the votes he needed for Health Care reform. Had he passed that, there would have been no Republican takeover. If anything, Dems were not concerned enough with their effectiveness; it started with Clinton, but was made worse by a lack of big-picture thinking on the part of the party leadership.
That will have to be different this time around, Dems in Congress have to understand that they weren’t elected to sit on the sidelines. They need to pass things, and they need to do it right. People will be paying rapt attention, nothing will go unnoticed.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Brokaw also used the “articulate” word when describing Obama last night.
Could someone at NBC News talk to the old geezer and straighten him out on this?
November 5th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Despite their reputation for thoroughness, the Obama campaign overlooked the critical mineral, rock and loam demographics. He did better among igneous groups, but poorly with the sedimentary.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Re onceler’s comment ” it started with Clinton, but was made worse by a lack of big-picture thinking on the part of the party leadership.”
———-
It wasn’t incompetence, it was simple corruption.
The hundred or so billionaires who treat the Democratic Party as their own private club are no more in favor of campaign finance reform or a critical news media or fair debate than is the most hard core Republican.
Haim Saban’s not in favor of fair debate re what’s in the national interest. It wouldn’t be “good for Israel”. S Daniel Abraham would never have been able to sabotage Howard Dean’s Presidential campaign in Iowa if not for the “power of the purse”
Obama raised –what? –$500 MILLION in this campaign? Do you think was from $25 checks? Do you think the donors were buying “good government”?
November 5th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Tom must be referring to that huge voting block that is the Grand Canyon.
What a douchebag.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:38 am
There’s a nice quiet patch of land mass awaiting Tom Brokaw. He’s going to find himself spending quite a bit of time in that location, in the not-too-distant future.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Why don’t you know? The election last night was good news for Republicans.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Shorter Brokaw on the 2008 Presidential election: My guy lost.
I’d like to see Chris Matthews take over for Russert. Brokaw is a gasbag and totally in love with the sound of his own pompous baritone strains.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Mr. Brokaw is correct. I voted for Obama, but my back yard voted for McCain.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Brokaw never really came out of retirement. He retired, he went around the bend and became senile overnight, and he’ll never be the same again. Weird.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:48 am
41 p.a.
now that’s some high class snark.
hats off to you.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Well, at least Brokaw reminds us there is indeed one way in which the United States is a center-right country: if you draw a vertical line through the middle of the lower 48 on a map, it turns out that substantially more people live on the right side of that line.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Brokaw has stayed too long at the Fair.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:33 am
So Brokaw’s thesis is … Dirt: McCain Country
November 5th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Shorter Brokaw: “One acre, one vote!”
November 5th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Weevils for McCain!!!!
November 5th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Now that the election’s over, will Brokaw finally fucking retire?
If I have to watch him breathe weirdly for another year, I swear to god I’m gonna put a gun in my mouth.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:59 am
This is for Tom Brokaw, the blithering idiot:
This was my projection before the polls opened. I missed on Georgia and N. Dakota, and perhaps Missouri.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
The only response to idiocy like Brokaw’s is to calmly, polite say “Ah, but the majority of the water voted for Barack Obama”.
See if that’s enough to make him feel like an idiot.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Obama is “articulate”!
I mean, for an Irish-American, of course.
(Runs and hides.)
November 5th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Don Williams, #3: “More seriously, the Democratic Party needs to destroy the malign culture that is binding the Red State South together.”
No.
Wrong.
Bad.
Do not entertain this idea.
The right-wing wants to outlaw abortion. You want to outlaw culture. Between you two there’s room for a couple Stalins.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
I’m elated that Obama is our next president and while his election’s significance to race relations in America should not be underestimated or unacknowledged he was not elected because he is African-American (or for any other social indicators ie: young, poorer, looks like most of us) but because his progressive economic views spoke to the concerns of Americans. Let us not be diverted from this election’s core meaning: America leans left.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Wow! I did not realize that land area could vote. This is an impressive revelation!
November 5th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Brokaw’s right. I voted Obama, but my front yard suppprted McCain.
Still can’t get the back yard to tell me how it voted, though …
November 5th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
That’s the same nonsense Palin tried to pull when claiming she was the govenor of the largest state.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
So by Brokaw’s formulation, the majority of the United States is center-right. It’s just the majority of the PEOPLE in the United States that are center-left. Got it.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
HALLELUJAH!!! SAGEBRUSH AND CACTI HAVE FINALLY BEEN EMANCIPATED AND ENFRANCHISED!!!
November 5th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
# yulooloo Says:
Brokaw’s right. I voted Obama, but my front yard supported McCain.
Still can’t get the back yard to tell me how it voted, though
My front yard went for Obama, as did I.
Unfortunately, the side yard kept dithering between Cynthia McKinney and Bob Barr… and in a last-minute change of heart, ended up pulling the lever for Roger Calero.
I think I need to de-thach the grass more effectively next spring – that, or stop using the ’special’ compost from the local cooperative extension.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Shorter Brokaw: The majority of American dirt voted for McCain.
The majority of actual humans were somewhat smarter.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
“Brokaw is back at it — he said on Morning Joe that America is a center-right country because a majority of land area in the United States, if you measure it on the county level, voted for McCain.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6LP2kWpgcE
November 5th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
George Will promoted this same “land mass” theory of electoral politics back in 2000 – you know, when Gore won the popular vote (putting aside the Supreme Court, FL, etc.). Rocks and trees matter more than people. So Brokaw now expands this idiocy to say they matter more than both electoral votes and popular votes. The next logical progression is to tie this “real” America argument to the founding fathers.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Hopefully in time, an Obama presidency will alleviate us from the Right’s need to say these preposterous things. I’m still of the belief that there are a hell of a lot of conservatives in sheep’s clothing. Meaning that they are really on the left of center, but have been brain washed to believe they need to be on the right of center.
I’m still holding out for Maria Shriver to get Arnold converted, for the character he likes to play in his movies depict a character that appears way more liberal than conservative, yet his politics don’t support that. Arnold and Bruce Willis I can’t watch in movies anymore once I learned of their politics. Its all Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hide nonsense to me.
We need to do away with all these political descriptive terms altogether. The world isn’t going to allow us to be conservative anymore as the world is changing. If we stay a conservative course we get passed by.
There will be several right-winger types trying to spin this election in an attempt to show that last night didn’t happen . . . . but it did !!
November 5th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
All that proves is that McCain is very popular in places inhabited by nobody.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Brokaw always been a big proponent of cattle suffrage. One cow, one vote.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Will someone please show this to Tom Brokaw:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/
November 6th, 2008 at 3:21 am
I *HATE* this view, claiming to measure American views by land area.
Remember this: ROCKS DON’T VOTE!
November 30th, 2008 at 12:45 am
Almost 17 years after Nick and Alice Zizzo adopted a brown-eyed, chubby-cheeked baby girl through San Diego County’s child welfare system, she came home one day bubbling that her high school choir was going to Europe. EARNIE GRAFTON /
December 11th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
“The Bonnie Hunt Show” – Kathy Griffin; David Archuleta performs. 9 a.m. on WANE, Channel 15. “The Morning Show with Mike and Juliet” – Investigate the 5 bites diet. 9 a.m. on WFFT, Channel 55. “Live with Regis and Kelly
December 16th, 2008 at 12:41 am
Victory over tough South African Vincent Vuma at the O2 Arena in London this Saturday (November 15) could lead to Sheffield’s Ryan Rhodes’ third shot at a world title. The 31-year-old southpaw challenged unsuccessfully for WBO
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