Chris Bowers has an interesting post on growing public willingness to reduce defense spending that really needs a chart to summarize Gallup’s polling on the question. They’ve asked each February for a number of years how people feel about the Pentagon budget:

As Chris says, it’s interesting to see that the public was in a pretty strongly militaristic mood before 9/11, back in February of 2001. That helps explain some of the reaction.
Beyond that, insofar as people want to use this data to urge politicians to show some sense on defense spending, I applaud their efforts. But I would also caution that this is one of many issues where I think the polling is pretty much irrelevant. The Bush administration has overseen a stead defense buildup throughout its term in office, and public opinion has been nominally hostile to this since at least February of 2003 and it would be hard to argue that they’ve paid a price for it. This is just simply the sort of thing that’s not a voting issue to anyone. Or, rather, defense spending surely is a voting (and campaign contributing) issue to people who make their living on defense contracts. Meanwhile, no matter how much Obama spends on defense, it’s inevitable that the GOP will criticize him for not spending enough. And that alone should guarantee that the “too little” numbers will tick back up in the direction of at least 30 percent.
The serious point, politically, would be that on this issue — like many others — politicians actually have an enormous amount of leeway. A decision to pare back the defense budget would meet a lot of criticism, but the public seems perfectly open to it. And at the end of the day, an administration is going to be judged on its results, not on what people thought of the FY 2010 budget back in 2009.
November 21st, 2008 at 9:34 am
In 2000 and 2001 Bush and the GOP had been talking up how Clinton had let the military go to seed.
November 21st, 2008 at 9:50 am
“Meanwhile, no matter how much Obama spends on defense, it’s inevitable that the GOP will criticize him for not spending enough.”
This should motivate the Obama administration to do whatever they think best: they’ll be criticized either way. Not sure that’s how it works, though.
November 21st, 2008 at 10:02 am
1) Part of the problem is that the News Media goes out of its way to mislead the American public about the true level and costs of defense spending.
2) I bet if you polled the average citizens, 95 percent of them would think that we spend the same as the Russians and Chinese. They have NO idea how high US defense spending is because no one tells them!! You need Ross Perot to come back on TV with his colored charts. The 4 foot high graph is the Pentagon — the two inch high graphs is everyone else.
3) There is a bright side however. The New York Times –which, in my opinion, is dedicated to lying to America — is heading down the toilet.
Its stock was around $48 per share back in 2002 when Judith Miller was telling us about Saddam’s “Weapons of Mass Destruction”. Yesterday, Times stock was around $5 per share — and they cut their dividend by 74 percent.
See http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=NYT#chart1:symbol=nyt;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
I can’t wait until it crashes –so I can piss on the fucking ashes.
November 21st, 2008 at 10:04 am
Perhaps in the 90s defense actions were generally seen as good things, where as now our imperialism is quite a lot less successful, so americans want less ‘defense’
November 21st, 2008 at 10:16 am
A dramatic reduction in defense spending and the size of the military would have three benefits. 1) It would free up money for health care and other needed social projects. 2) It would force other countries to assume a greater share of their own defense. They would have to assess threats and respond accordingly. If they did not increase their defense expenditures and forces, one could conclude they did not share our perception of threats. 3) It should force greater prudence and thoughtfulness in the use of our forces. We would not charge off willy nilly as we did in Irag and threaten to do so in Iran. We would rely on diplomacy more, and would try to create coalitions when we had to sue force.
November 21st, 2008 at 10:24 am
The increase in support for reducing defense spending has tracked with the increased awareness among the taxpaying public of how much money is being stolen through crony no-bid “reconstruction” contracts.
Once people realized the $billions awarded to HalliburtonKBR and their Iraqi shills were going into Cayman Island accounts instead of actual projects or troop support, they decided it was time to stop funding the gravy train.
November 21st, 2008 at 10:27 am
Interesting that they do this poll in February. I think the poll would give a more accurate read on public attitudes if it were not conducted so soon after a major yearly Presidential address to the nation (either inagurual or state of the union) devoted largely to Federal spending priorities.
November 21st, 2008 at 10:31 am
And your plan to deal with the massive layoffs in the defense sector? Many of which are union jobs. Perhaps another bailout? Think this thing through.
November 21st, 2008 at 11:01 am
Even McCain and Lindsay Graham spoke of cutting the DoD budget pre-Palin. And there are many ways to cut the budget without laying off thousands of workers- that’s how bloated the budget is.
November 21st, 2008 at 11:09 am
Regardless, expect that to become a major wingnut talking point if and when serious defense cuts finally make it to the table. Irony died long ago in the wingnutosphere, if indeed it ever lived.
November 21st, 2008 at 11:12 am
Okay, there are untold billions gone missing in Iraq, and we’re not spending too much on defense?
I can’t remember the number, but $42 or was it %47 billion spent on spying last year? How much was to listen to US service members calls home? And we’re not spending too on defense spending?
When Obama talked about the line-by-line review of spending, my heart soared, and I hoped he meant the defense budget, where Cheney and his fat-cat friends at companies like Blackwater, GE, etc., have had an open door into the tax-payer pocket. I cannot help feeling the continued economic panic gives them cover to shift their ill-gotten gains from defense companies to other places for the investigations that may come.
Yes, we spend too much on the arts of war, and not enough on the necessities of living. People need health care, they need health food, they need education. We need clean water, air, and fertile soil. These are as important to our security as 50-caliber machine guns and listening to cell phone conversations.
November 21st, 2008 at 11:28 am
I’m in favor of cutting defense spending even though it’s my current employer. And just by cutting out Iraq, you eliminate close to 200B a year off the top.
It’s easy for me to say this, because I don’t think I’ll be personally affected. Also, you won’t have much sucess. Among the obstacles to cutting defense spending is what @9. Argus said – at least for the navy, there’s a lot of big contracts (in procurement, operations, and repairs) in blue states that provide a lot union jobs. Also, there’s the fact that Obama wants to raise the army and marine corps by about 90K people – so any cuts are almost necessarily going to be in navy & air force procurement and operations. With Virginia (navy) and Colorado (air force) being blue states ‘on the bubble’ – in the NCAA tourney sense – cutters have their work cut out for them. You could put FL and NH(esp w/ frosh senator) in this ‘bubble blue’ as well. (and among the more reliably blue, there’s HI with new appropriations chair Inoye, California with two pretty powerful senators, Conn with Dodd)
It’s also sorta ironic that a certain person calls for anti-Neo-Hooverism, but decreased defense spending, when Hoover probably decreased defense spending (toward the bottom of the page), while Roosevelt of course, raised defense spending – eventually to the point where we finally ended the depression.
November 21st, 2008 at 11:45 am
I would caution Democrats that any effort to make a headlong charge at the defense budget absent a broader critique of America’s international responsibilities is going to run aground fast.
The defense budget is symptomatic of a larger issue – America’s international responsibilities and self-described interests around the world. You can attempt to cut the budget all you want (and good luck with that) but doing so in the absence of a coherent and well-articulated strategy to delegate more responsibilities to allies (or a professed willingness to accept more short-term instability in certain regions of the world) is going to look scatter-shot and irresponsible.
November 21st, 2008 at 11:58 am
1) There are probably some very good defense programs that should continue to receive funding–although this requires indepth analysis of tradeoffs.
2) TSAT, for example. The program to set up a constellation of geo-synch relay satellites with high-bandwidth laser crosslinks (not much dispersion in space vacuum) which can carry a huge amount of info –far more than our current microwave architecture.
That big increase in comms lets you handle video uplinks from lots more Predators (Predators can NOT transmit very far line-of-sight to ground stations because of earth curvature.)
Increased comms also lets spies in the Islamic world send uplinks to low earth orbit sats which can’t be detected/triangulated by Third World security forces. First requirement of the Humint spy biz is secure, undetectable comms.
Greatly increased comms lets you keep a closer eye on everyone in ways I don’t care to describe and it lets your overseas commanders get rich, indepth info on what’s in their areas of interest.
If you need to fight, you have sight and the enemy is blind — which is a nice way to fight.
Plus, if you are sending in stealth bombers to blow the shit out of something Iranian (or Chinese, heh heh ) , you don’t want the bombers emitting radar pulses –defeats whole purpose. You want something very high overhead (beyond reach) emitting the radar pulses and then downlinking the screen info to the stealth bombers who can simply listen –not emit.
Point is, to discuss this defense planning intelligently, you need smart people with indepth technical knowledge of the systems and strategies who also are not trying to con you.
Good luck finding them.
November 21st, 2008 at 12:06 pm
What the polling data reflect is a perception that we don’t get value equal to the expenditures. Nobody can accurately assess the right defense expenditures in absolute terms. What is enough? Enough is the amount necessary to protect us from attack, to vanquish those who attack us, and to deter those who would attack us in the future. By that measure, we have been spending too little, for we did not prevent the 9/11 attack, we have not vanquished those who attacked us notwithstanding a trillion dollars of expenditures in an effort to do so, and most believe we will be attacked again by the same enemy. My point is that you cannot measure “enough” in absolute terms, but rather in results. We aren’t getting the results desired because our defense spending is highly inefficient, as we continue to spend on defense systems that are in appropriate for today’s threats. Obama plans to reassess our defense spending in light of today’s threats. Good. But who exactly will make the assessment for tomorrow’s threats.
November 21st, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Re Greg Scoblete’s comment “any effort to make a headlong charge at the defense budget absent a broader critique of America’s international responsibilities is going to run aground fast.”
————-
I concur. But you need to distinguish between “national interests” that are just some Rich Man’s investment from REAL national interests.
The Oil Business is destroying the United States. They have asshole puppets like George Bush and Cheney spending close to $38 on military operations for every gallon of gasoline we get from the Middle East. That’s stupid and it’s bankrupting us. What’s worse, It’s consumption that has to be renewed year after year or else the Bush economy collapses. There are fucking heroin dealers with better ethics.
In the meantime, Bush/Cheney spent NOTHING of INVESTMENT in finding new energy sources. On INVESTMENT that would yield a profit for years to come.
But you can’t do rational analysis when your national discourse is totally controlled by a pack of lying shitheads in the News Media and a pack of lying whores in the US COngress who only care about where their next $100,000 campaign donation is coming from.
November 21st, 2008 at 12:23 pm
@9 –
So let’s transition a portion of that massive government spending to buying stuff that we actually want – really fancy high-speed trains, better power plants, or whatever. The defense contractors and the smart people that work for them can follow the money. If this priority shift happens at the typically glacial government pace, this transition to building new, less deadly toys might not even be very painful.
November 21st, 2008 at 1:02 pm
This reminds me of the peace dividend we got from the fall of the Soviet Union, when Bush Sr. approved moves to decommission older and useless bases etc. to save some funds, and when Clinton followed him and continued the same, the lunatic right wing once again worked hard to destroy this country by screaming for a decade about how Bill Clinton destroyed the U.S. military, when then of course manly soldier George Bush Jr. rebuilt and everyone was happy ever after The End.
Also, conservatives are for smaller government and controlling government spending.
November 21st, 2008 at 1:07 pm
“it would be a bad idea to cut defense spending too drastically too fast.”
Up to a point. Cutting anything quickly causes disruption and
inefficiency. However, the effect of a recession is to cause
a lot of businesses and state/local governments to make quick
and drastic cuts. If you can avoid that by taking $150B of
the Pentagon budget and spending it on more cost-effective
stimulus measures – aid to state governments, food stamps,
unemployment benefits, GDP-enhancing infrastructure spending -
then I for one would view that as a good thing. Military
spending is not a very efficient stimulus, and why should the
military sector be shielded from the pain that the rest of the
economy is suffering ?
In particular, I think it’s misleading to compare the effects
of WW2 defense spending with the current situation. Back
then the military took a huge number of people, out of a
much smaller population, and put them to work. With the modern
military and defense industries, the number of people involved
is a much smaller proportion of the total (the uniform military is only 1.2M out of total population of 300M – back
in WW2 it was 7M+). And war production for the mass armies
of WW2 was a big deal too, in a way that current military stuff just isn’t: the civilian economy is much much bigger,
and the military is much much smaller. To take a quick example, you could buy an SUV for each of the 1.2M people
in the military, and it wouldn’t cure GM’s overcapacity.
From an economic standpoint, military spending is a terrible way to do stimulus these days. Though I realize the politics
of defense cuts are very difficult to manage, especially for
industries in the swing states.
November 21st, 2008 at 1:19 pm
But I would also caution that this is one of many issues where I think the polling is pretty much irrelevant.
Yes. The chart most likely reflects opposition to the Iraq War, not to defense spending in general. I doubt most people have any better idea of how much we spend on defense than of how much we spend on foreign aid. Obama won the election on a platform that included an increase in military personnel that the CBO estimates will cost more than $100 billion over five years, plus additional unspecified spending increases on equipment and training.
November 21st, 2008 at 2:14 pm
To take a quick example, you could buy an SUV for each of the 1.2M people in the military, and it wouldn’t cure GM’s overcapacity.
Don’t give them ideas!
November 21st, 2008 at 2:28 pm
The previous maximum in the actual data linked showed an even higher peak of poll respondents saying “Too Much” military spending in January of 1990 (50%).
This particular question was apparently only asked in (or data only presented for) 1990, 1993, then 1998 and 1999.
By 1993 the percentage responding “Too Much” had dropped to 42%.
November 21st, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Serious defense experts are now advocating the military be reconfigured to work better at only a fraction of its present cost.
Read America’s Defense Meltdown
Blurb:
November 21st, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Thanks for the info, Duncan Kinder.
November 21st, 2008 at 9:05 pm
The Bush administration has overseen a steady defense buildup throughout its term in office, and public opinion has been nominally hostile to this since at least February of 2003 and it would be hard to argue that they’ve paid a price for it. This is just simply the sort of thing that’s not a voting issue to anyone.
You don’t think that part of the reason for the 2006 and 2008 defeats ws the disgust at the GOP for constantly arguing for “smaller government” and that “government can’t do anything right” and that we need more “free market” while at the same time exempting one ofthe largest, most bloated departments that the government spends money on from the criticism?
You don’t think that the fact that the supposed fiscal conservatives were constantly clamoring that we should spend oodles more on occupying a hostile foreign country had anything to do with their defeat?????
By the way, I agree with Harry Browne. It’s not that spend too much on defense. We probably don’t spend enough on defense. We do, however, spend way too much on keeping the strongest national offense in the world.
As Chris says, it’s interesting to see that the public was in a pretty strongly militaristic mood before 9/11, back in February of 2001. That helps explain some of the reaction.
But we had an objectively smaller military in budget terms back then, there was a budget surplus, and many were worried (correctly or not) that Clinton had reduced the military in size and effectiveness too much. To suggest that the difference here is simply in the public’s perception of the military, and not due to actual differences in the military, shows, I think, a little bit of a blind spot.
An obvious point is that it is possible people’s opinions about the absolute level of defense spending have remained constant, and that the change in their responses is due to the change in the absolute level of defense spending.
Exactly (except for the fact that “defense” should be considered a euphemism for “the military”).
This interpretation probably gives the American people way too much credit, in terms of even knowing that defense spending has increased.
I think that most people have the sense that it has, even if they don’t have any idea what the absolute numbers are, because there is the obvious fact that fighting a war will require an increase in military spending.
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