Obama: No Torture, No Gitmo
There’s been some talk of Barack Obama possibly backsliding on campaign promises to close Guantanamo Bay and stop torture. Talking to CBS News last night, however, Obama clearly reiterated both commitments:
Good on both counts. I don’t think it can be emphasized enough how critical it is to our relationship with Europe to make a clean break with the Bush-era policies on these issues. Doing so will hardly change the fact that the US and Europe have somewhat divergent interests and perspectives on the world, but it’ll left the air of political toxicity that’s been hanging for years over the United States of America and create the environment in which both sides of the Atlantic will see that our interests and perspectives are fundamentally quite close.
46 Responses to “Obama: No Torture, No Gitmo”
Register
RSSLogin
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog RollAbout Matt YglesiasContact Me
Donate
November 17th, 2008 at 10:24 am
It will be interesting to see how he does both of those things. My guess is he ends torture with an executive order on day 1, but Gitmo takes a while longer as they work through the legal implications and logistics.
November 17th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Yes, it’s important that we be realistic in our expectations of the new president. It takes more than a few days and weeks to undo 8 years of W.
November 17th, 2008 at 11:17 am
We should do this because it’s the right thing to do, not because Europe wants it.
November 17th, 2008 at 11:22 am
I don’t think it can be emphasized enough how critical it is to our relationship with Europe to make a clean break with the Bush-era policies on these issues.
Are you sure these issues are really critical? I was told not 1 month ago that the most important issues of the day were the nature of Obama’s relationship with Ayers and the prospect that slightly higher tax rates on income above 250,000 were a harbinger of socialism.
November 17th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Bush has said the same thing for years now.
You are so right on that! If even George Bush couldn’t close Guantanamo Bay and stop torture, it’s probably completely just out of the realm of possibility to hope those things might ever happen.
November 17th, 2008 at 11:53 am
I don’t recall Al agitating for the closure of Gitmo at any point in the past. Apparently executive power must be checked only when a Democrat is close to assuming it.
November 17th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Okay, let me take a stab at this. Bush has used language essentially identical to Obama’s “America doesn’t torture” for many years now. As a result the phrase has come to mean either nothing or the opposite of what it says. Of course Obama isn’t Bush, but a greater level of specificity about what he means by this will still be necessary to reassure many of us that this isn’t another Orwellian smokescreen. We shouldn’t condemn Obama in advance of his actions, but it does behoove us to make clear to him what it will take to reassure us that we’ve returned to morality.
November 17th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Well, if you listen to Condie Rice you would know that things between Europe and the US have been just peachy under the Bush administration. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/magazine/16rice-t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
November 17th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
As DonSinFalta points out, Obama is just regurgitating the same boilerplate rhetoric about how “America” or the “Administration” shouldn’t torture. What he conspicuously fails to say is that he would never, under any circumstances, order or allow torture to prevent a catastrophe.
In a ticking time bomb scenario where other options had failed, Obama would order torture just as any other President would. He’s not so stupid as to think saving a terrorist from five minutes of waterboarding is worth millions of lives.
November 17th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
“In a ticking time bomb scenario where other options had failed, Obama would order torture just as any other President would.”
That’s fine. But there are many other (and more likely) situations where torture occurred under Bush’s policies that would not occur under Obama’s. That’s a pretty big difference, though you’d really like to pretend like they have the exact same stance on torture, because whatever the Republican policy is on it is the correct one in your mind.
November 17th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
In a ticking time bomb scenario where other options had failed … blahblahblahblahblah - unless you’re a moral philosopher, which I kind of doubt, the scenario is entirely irrelevant.
November 17th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
There’s going to have to be some sort of substitute for Guantanamo. Al Qaeda is still an enemy of the USA, and one doesn’t release prisoners of war before the war is over. What should be the legal status of these people? Anyone?
November 17th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Anyone?
Firstly, there is no “war”. Secondly, if these people have really done all this terrible stuff, they could easily be tried and convicted in a US court of law.
November 17th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
In a ticking time bomb scenario where other options had failed, Obama would order torture just as any other President would.
Hopefully in a scenario like that Superman would be willing to step in to save the day.
November 17th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
In a ticking time bomb scenario where other options had failed, Obama would order torture just as any other President would.
The troll is strong in this one…
I’m hopefull. Remember this piece from Charles Peters in January?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html
I’m going to quote a large bit:
Obama proposed requiring that interrogations and confessions be videotaped.
This seemed likely to stop the beatings, but the bill itself aroused immediate opposition. There were Republicans who were automatically tough on crime and Democrats who feared being thought soft on crime. There were death penalty abolitionists, some of whom worried that Obama’s bill, by preventing the execution of innocents, would deprive them of their best argument. Vigorous opposition came from the police, too many of whom had become accustomed to using muscle to “solve” crimes. And the incoming governor, Rod Blagojevich, announced that he was against it.
Obama had his work cut out for him.
He responded with an all-out campaign of cajolery. It had not been easy for a Harvard man to become a regular guy to his colleagues. Obama had managed to do so by playing basketball and poker with them and, most of all, by listening to their concerns. Even Republicans came to respect him. One Republican state senator, Kirk Dillard, has said that “Barack had a way both intellectually and in demeanor that defused skeptics.”
The police proved to be Obama’s toughest opponent. Legislators tend to quail when cops say things like, “This means we won’t be able to protect your children.” The police tried to limit the videotaping to confessions, but Obama, knowing that the beatings were most likely to occur during questioning, fought — successfully — to keep interrogations included in the required videotaping.
By showing officers that he shared many of their concerns, even going so far as to help pass other legislation they wanted, he was able to quiet the fears of many.
Obama proved persuasive enough that the bill passed both houses of the legislature, the Senate by an incredible 35 to 0. Then he talked Blagojevich into signing the bill, making Illinois the first state to require such videotaping.
——-
This is why I didn’t go bonkers like Glenn Greenwald among others when Obama went along with the warrantless wiretapping IN THE MIDST OF A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WHERE HE WAS A BLACK DUDE. Hopefully people will force the Democrats to revisit the wiretapping issue.
November 17th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
unless you’re a moral philosopher, which I kind of doubt, the scenario is entirely irrelevant.
No potential scenario is irrelevant.
That’s a pretty big difference, though you’d really like to pretend like they have the exact same stance on torture
I don’t think they have the exact same stance on torture. I also don’t think the difference in their stances is nearly as big as certain Obamaphiles want to believe.
November 17th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Truth be told, I’m less interested in closing Guantanamo and even to some extent less concerned with making the conditions there humane (except for people whose status is not yet determined) than I am concerned with making sure that we can prove that everyone there belongs there.
What bothers me the most is the possibility of an innocent person in there with no way to convince the authorities of his innocence. The other issues pale in comparison to making certain that we don’t detain people without a very good system for making certain that the people there belong there.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
99.9% of Gitmo’s poor devils fall into the category of “Omar the dishwasher” - some poor schnook who got snagged in that Hell through no fault of his own. Often, it was some lying malicious rat turd who turned him in for spite or money. The other .01% have truly suffered the tortures of the damned and should be allowed to go wherever they want. Anything short of that just perpetuates the scrofulous barbarism. As a matter of fact - everyone in there should be compensated with $1,000.000.00.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:43 am
I am incredulous at the lack of alarm over this statement from Obama: “I’ve stated repeatedly that America doesn’t torture”.
The statement is parsed with an intentional ambiguity which allows the listener to hear what s/he wishes. Obama supporters will, no doubt, believe that he was wasn’t actually denying the fact of torture: he was speaking philosophically and suggesting that, at its core, America is a nation too noble to condone the practice of torture.
However, Obama’s words have a different meaning to GW Bush who has also repeatedly said that “America doesn’t do torture”. When Bush says this, he is denying the fact that America has practiced torture. When Obama uses much the same words, GW Bush and his attorneys can arguably claim that Obama means much the same thing: there are no grounds for charges of torture.
Ergo, Obama only leaves the Bush Administration open to less egregious charges that they don’t even bother to deny. Namely, enhanced interrogation and the rendering of detainees to third parties who may have enacted torture without the direct knowledge, or authorization, of GW Bush’s “America”.
Given the foregoing, I am not reassured by Obama saying that: “I’m gonna make sure we don’t torture”. It would appear that he intends to make sure that America doesn’t do something that he’s already said we don’t do.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Well, if we didn’t have anything else from Obama except “I’ve stated repeatedly that America doesn’t torture”, then there might well be good reason to be alarmed. However, we have all these other statements quoted above by Matt and DTM (and note what Peter K. quotes). It’s a logic failure to seize on one piece of evidence and than argue as if it were all there is.
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:45 am
Hi Guys,
Long time lurker, just thought i would say Hi
sorry if this is the wrong section mods!
Signature:
http://www.firstchoicepharmacy.co.uk/
January 13th, 2009 at 9:16 am
laptop battery
laptop batteries
b
February 8th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
laptop battery
February 9th, 2009 at 3:01 am
laptop battery
February 27th, 2009 at 7:22 am
Excellent thoughts thanks! Want some free hosting for your blog?
March 1st, 2009 at 5:46 am
viagra
It is the coolest site,keep so!
March 1st, 2009 at 6:37 pm
cialis
Very interesting site. Hope it will always be alive!
March 12th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
Excellent site. It was pleasant to me.
March 14th, 2009 at 5:26 am
I bookmarked this site. Thank you for good job!
xanax
March 17th, 2009 at 2:29 am
It is the coolest site,keep so!
tramadol
March 19th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:15 am
tramadol
I want to say - thank you for this!
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:41 am
comment2, skateboard myspace layouts, :PP, irma nava myspace dallas, 147, jenn salters myspace, %)), police graphics for myspace, 5825, myspace underwear pics, tobbx, free myspace backgrounds and layouts, jgppx, brandy myspace, 1103, element skateboard myspace images, aaggx, how to get a copyright symbol on your myspace name, :PPP, martha d navas myspace, =[[[,
March 24th, 2009 at 4:33 am
fat burning foods http://themeforest.net/user/JessyBuh
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:21 am
It is the coolest site,keep so!
buy cheap viagra
April 2nd, 2009 at 11:12 am
comment4, hevacomp crack, sahcfo, lord of destruction crack, 169, fs passengers x crack, 339577, nude finnish girls, 7110, sex.farmer, 8-OOO, xp activation generator, 847018, panoweaver 5.0 crack, cjme, avp2 bots download, pji, onlinefilm.ru, zcnoms, nokia mastercode download, pzloif,
April 2nd, 2009 at 6:22 pm
comment5, bt junkie.com, =-], sonic digitalmedia plus v7, 36365, jav movie, 901795, pid_2303 vid_067b, 638124, sis 300 driver download win98, 762, pdf transformer 1.0 crack, 456, king fm 3.5, 259054, motorola mobile phone tools v4.0 download, qwlyda, download hsp688t, 878048, index.of mp3 lost prophets, 900,
April 3rd, 2009 at 4:14 am
It is the coolest site,keep so!
cheap brand pfizer viagra
April 3rd, 2009 at 2:34 pm
comment4, Hot Blonde Girl Dancing Nude, >:-)), nero keygen, 8PP, MySpace For Dummies, =-]],
April 5th, 2009 at 10:34 am
comment3, Microsoft.Windows.Millennium.REAL.OEM.SWEDISH-TFTiSO, atp, Avi Voyeur-russian Locker, 8554, - PreVail 27.Dresses.(2008).TS.XviD, 028, Perdidos Multi5 AGT DVD5 Animersion, >:]]], Promises ON Diamond W.DK DvDRip SUBS Eastern, =]]],
April 5th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
comment4, DJ Mixer 3 Music Keygen 7, ynqyko, Northern Miranda - Lights-1999, yqrap, group, 3 A GERMANY tour - wc74 WEST x GERMANY 17 22.06.1974 EAST -, 7945, 7 Editor 9 Photo Vicman’s Exe 1, 476900, PL-VFV AC3 1408 Lektor XviD 2007 (release.com.pl) DVDRip, 452,
April 7th, 2009 at 3:04 am
comment3, Phineas.And.Feb.S01E13.Oscilo.divx, pmkrt, Teen on finger herself WebCam to loves, wesxvw, DVDRIP HATCHES 1942 THE WARNER - HORTON EGG BROS., >:]]], anastasia.mpg, iep, Love (tesla08).avi Big My, aahxlk,
April 9th, 2009 at 6:14 am
If you have to do it, you might as well do it right viagra
April 11th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
comment1, noki serial, 275516, torrents gmat, 7636, mobile free softwire, 36921, ink uv, nfhucw, 9 pro patch trial filemaker, 09928,
April 12th, 2009 at 4:24 am
comment6, 5.10 pvr professional serial christv, :)), mona art met, 966, x for hack runescape, =((, yo girl 12 sex, tmyq, professional christv 5.10 pvr serial, ryevrj,
April 17th, 2009 at 7:20 am
comment5, Ten - Horns Ten Diadems Satyricon Mp3-192, :-]]], In FAT Maiden 2008 - german Italy - Iron, 710570, xDR 2050 - 2008-FLAC Story Love, sbl, v7 Incl Video A-Z Converter Keygen 55 Ultimate, =-PPP, cervo a primavera, 0834,