Matthew Yglesias » No War for Transit

Nov 17th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

No War for Transit

Iraq sets aside $3 billion to build a subway in Baghdad. Good for them.

Comments
28

Filed under: iraq, transit,

28 Responses to “No War for Transit”

blah Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
I could see some security issues arising from this project.
El Cid Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Excellent. Baghdad’s really been needing a big new target for concentrating the public into small, enclosed spaces, so as to assist the totally not-ongoing insurgency.
DBaker Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Are they going to be using the same tunnels where all those WMD were stored before we invaded???? /s

I recall war bloggers and their ilk talk about this BS claim that Saddam had moved all his WMD into the subway tunnels under Baghdad and then moved them to Jordan or something later.
moron Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
They’ve obviously been taken over by socialists.

RE-INVADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!11!
Gabriel Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Rumor has it that residents of the Green Zone blocked the building of a subway stop in their neighborhood because they thought it would create a security risk by attracting undesirables. Sure, they *say* it’s because of water from the nearby Tigris, but no one believes them.
robbehrman Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Wow, that’s the stupidest idea I’ve heard in a minute.

But, it’s been a minute since I’ve been there, and I can think of equally stupid ideas I’ve heard (public swimming pools leap to mind) while I was there… But 3 billion is a lot of money for public transportation in a system that needs so much more basic goods.

Gah. I love and hate that country so much.
Swoosh Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
They will undoubtedly run into ancient artifacts in the tunneling, which will delay the project indefinitely…
along Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
easing congestion and reducing pollution are great, noble goals. But a subway is a terrible idea, for the security reasons give by commenters here, and also because from May to September Baghdad is one of the hottest cities in the world, and air conditioning 40 stations and hundreds of subway cars to a livable or even just endurable level would be not only a herculean task but also its own pollution problem and an enormous ongoing expense.

A trolley system, on the other hand, would get hundreds of thousand of people from here to there in almost exactly the same way. And it would similarly reduce pollution. But the much smaller and simpler infrastructure and station architecture would require much less air conditioning, if any.
There would be security tradeoffs. Security is probably easier in a subway station, with relatively narrow entryways and well-designed and lit platforms with good video monitoring. But one attack could kill and injure many hundreds of people at once. Such an attack above ground probably would not be larger than a bus bombing, which Iraq is sadly familiar with and can plan for with greater efficiency and confidence.
bdbd Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Wow, and you thought putting a subway under Rome or under the Bosphorus was a headache — a subway under Baghdad! What an archeological gold mine!
Dr Wu, I'm just an ordinary guy Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
The subway is really a Hamas front to get weapons to Gaza..
scythia Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Where is Mixner?
elf Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
This is a great idea. It’s not as far-fetched as it seems – Siemens drew up plans in the 1970s for a Baghdad metro, but the Iran-Iraq war stopped the plan. The Iraqi government has plenty of cash now.

It will put people to work and ease the horrible traffic jams in Baghdad.
Alex Broner Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
I put together a “to do” list for the Iraqi government.

1. get people to stop killing each other
2. basic human services (food, medicine, water, electricity)
3. resettle refugees
….

13. build subway
pluege Says:
November 17th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
if the Iraqis want to know what its like to dig subway tunnels in sand they can just ask LA MTA, where they almost collapsed Hollywood while building their Red Line subway.
.
James Wimberley Says:
November 18th, 2008 at 7:00 am
Would you give the contract an an American firm? Or to one from a country that actually builds a lot of subways?
James Robertson Says:
November 18th, 2008 at 8:02 am
Not noticed by Matt: How much conditions have improved to allow such planning…
me Says:
November 18th, 2008 at 9:01 am
“Not noticed by Matt: How much conditions have improved to allow such planning”
Yeah. The government buildings haven’t been mortared for a whole ten minutes now.

If only there was some kind of method by which people could communicate over great distances… but that’s absurd! The wind would distort their voices too much no matter how loudly they shouted. And there’s no record of it in the bible, so it can’t exist.

“Al-Zaman reports in Arabic that the Iraqi cabinet approved the security agreement between the Bush administration and the Iraqi government. It will now go to the Iraqi parliament, where it will be voted on on November 24. Out of 36 cabinet members, 28 were present for Sunday’s vote (a lot of Iraqi politicians actually live in Amman or London because of the poor security situation). Of the 28, 27 voted in favor.”

“Turkish Prime Minister Rejep Tayyip Erdogan [of the AKP] said at the Brookings Institution that the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan were much worse than the US gave out. He criticized the American tendency to throw money at problems,saying that Turkey was wiser in providing services, building schools, etc. Turkey’s parliament declined to allow US troops to transit Anatolia on the way to northern Iraq in 2003, but Turkey has troops in Afghanistan as part of the NATO contingent.”
So is Turkey an ally of the US or not? The AKP is a self-described pro-Western, conservative, socially liberal party.
jjcomet Says:
November 18th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Yes, Turkey is an ally, even though they don’t do our bidding. Unfortunately, the willingness to do anything the US asks of a country – regardless of how it might affect that country’s interests – seems to be our current definition of “ally.” No one should be surprised that the Turks opposed transit of US troops to northern Iraq. The Turks have been dealing with Kurdish separatists internally and the PKK externally for the better part of a century and they don’t trust anyone else – especially the country that now owns Iraq – to settle that matter in the Turks’ favor. We may not like it, but we need to get used to the fact that even our allies have political goals that might not coincide with ours and will not always be willing to go along with our plans for them.
the exile Says:
November 18th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Not surprising at all. 1. The need is there, so the project does not look unreasonable. 2. Kickback opportunities in a project like a subway are endless. 3. With Bush leaving, Iraqis realize that there will soon be a need for new kickback opportunities, because the old ones are trending downward. 4. Lots of money will be spent but the subway will never actually be built, so no need to worry about the insecurity issues.

Win-win for everyone!
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Matt Yglesias

No War for Transit

28 Responses to “No War for Transit”

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