
Some nice points from Ilan Goldenberg:
But while Obama’s election carries dramatic symbolic value, we also need to demonstrate to our allies that the way we govern and conduct foreign policy will substantively change. That means not cramming a list of demands down their throats in the first 100 days. It means building on the goodwill and sending the right signals that we care about their priorities. We should listen to their priorities early on and do some relatively easy things that send the right message on issues such as international arms control treaties, global warming treaties, international law and development issues. The signal needs to be sent that we won’t be obstructionist on these issues every chance we get and that we’re even willing to engage aggressively on them – not because they are our top priority but because we respect the views and interests of our allies and are willing to listen.
Over time and even in the relatively short term, there is no question that we should ask the Europeans to provide more troops for Afghanistan and also ask them to remove the caveats that some countries have placed on their forces. But let’s not forget that they have just dealt with the Bush administration for eight years, and while the general population is easily swayed foreign officials will need more clear proof that there really is a new approach coming from Washington.
Since I’m here in Europe and have had some opportunity to discuss things with Swiss officials, and have had some other contracts with European politicians and diplomats over the past twelve months, I would add two more points to this. One is simply that most Americans don’t fully grasp the volume of petty bullshit that European foreign ministries have been putting up with for the past eight years. Donald Rumsfeld’s bizarre decision to casually dismiss a large set of crucial American military allies and trading partners (along with the whole of European public opinion) as “old Europe” was one high-profile example, but there’s lower level interactions in large set of state capitals and it’s important for the entire mindset to be changed and replaced with the common sense dictate that if you want people to cooperate with you, you ought to ask nicely.
The other thing is that even though the US progressive community has a lot of very smart people in it and a lot of very good ideas, it’s just in the nature of things that, having been out of power for the past eight years, we have somewhat limited practical experience coping with some of these issues. Nicholas Sarkozy, Angela Merkel, Jan Balkenende, and Silvio Berlusconi have all led governments with soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan for some time now; Barack Obama hasn’t and it would be basic courtesy as well as good practice to genuinely solicit their opinion of the situation and take what they say into account before presenting them with our view. Clearly, the US will be taking the lead one way or another in Afghanistan, but just as the transition process will involve listening to what Bush’s people have to say, we should listen to our partners as well. Similarly, if we’re going to initiate some kind of diplomatic dialogue with the Iranians, some of the Swiss officials who’ve been representing US interests in Iran in the absence of a formal American diplomatic presence may have something useful to say.
At the end of the day, I think this kind of approach will bear much more fruit in terms of European cooperation and will probably bear some fruit in terms of substantive knowledge. There’s no need for a brand-new president to treat veteran political leaders in longtime allied countries as if they’re unruly pets who need to be brought to heel — the hunger on this continent for a better relationship with the United States is quite evident and everyone understands that we’re a big important country whose views need to be taken very seriously. Under the circumstances, it makes a lot of sense to try to be polite and respectful.
November 13th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
“But while Obama’s election carries dramatic symbolic value, we also need to demonstrate to our allies that the way we govern and conduct foreign policy will substantively change.”
Unfortunately, although the foreign policy STYLE may change, it’s fairly clear from Obama’s statements and his choice of advisers that the foreign policies themselves will not change significantly.
A LOT of people are saying this, not just me.
Don’t Let Barack Obama Break Your Heart
http://www.antiwar.com/engelhardt/?articleid=13759
He’s right about that list of Web sites. If Matt paid attention to them, especially Asia Times, he wouldn’t so frickin’ ignorant about Afghanistan and Pakistan.
The Audacity of Hype
Dissent in the Age of Obama
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=13754
November 13th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
I always find it interesting how everyone is focusing on the relationship between the USA and Europe. It seems Canada is not important enough? Canadian troops have been on the ground in Afghanistan doing the heavy lifting in the most dangerous parts for years now while the other countries have been playing it safe. If the US should repair any relationship it should be with Canada, they left our troops high and dry with their boondoggle into Iraq.
November 13th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
To add some substance to the “volume of petty bullshit” I’ll give an example. One of my professors was invited to be a guest lecturer at a university in Europe. As a matter of diplomatic protocol, the ambassadors of the respective countries sign off on this. Typically, they just pull out their Rubberstamp of International Goodwill, and don’t interfere with the professor exchange.
This time, though, the Bush Administration’s ambassador decided that the professor was too liberal, and vetoed the exchange at the last minute. This left the European University scrambling, without a professor for one of its courses, and the professor had to throw out his plans for the year. It made it clear that the Ambassador wasn’t just there to remember everyone’s names at the cocktail parties, but would be playing politics and disrespecting the host country’s decisions.
It’s not the kind of major diplomatic incident that makes headlines, and certainly nothing of life or death consequences. But it unnecessarily turned a friendly interaction between nations into a cause of friction. As Yglesias notes, these kinds of petty unfriendly exchanges have been pretty common.
November 13th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Since I’m here in Europe
Yeah right.
November 13th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
RSH: I realize I’m prolly banging my head against a wall, but I’ll again suggest that linking to vast swaths of text is a lot easier to deal with than massive Cut-N-Paste of someone else’s content.
November 13th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Re refusfyrfly’s comment “This time, though, the Bush Administration’s ambassador decided that the professor was too liberal, and vetoed the exchange at the last minute. This left the European University scrambling, without a professor for one of its courses, and the professor had to throw out his plans for the year ”
————–
Why was that? Any professor worth his salt should go overseas and speak where he wants — and if a US Ambassador doesn’t approve, the professor should write the White House telling President Bush to suck his dick.
What the hell is the matter with people? Anyone ever heard of the First Amendment?
November 13th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
All very convincing except for two words “Silvio Berlusconi.” Would you tell the Swiss that they have to recognise that part of Alaska is closer to part of Russia than is any part of Switzerland so they should listen to Sarah Palin ? We’re talking the same level of seriousness about policy.
Nah only thing that Obama should say to Berlusconi is “nice tan”.
November 13th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Re: Don Williams
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the professor in question wrote a message to President Bush very similar to that one. Unfortunately, however, the First Amendment doesn’t help very much when the ambassador decides to blackball your visa.
November 13th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
“Why was that? Any professor worth his salt should go overseas and speak where he wants — and if a US Ambassador doesn’t approve”
No, the Ambassador didn’t approve the visa for the European professor to come TO the US (the other half of the exchange). A US citizen (or resident) doesn’t need for the US to approve a visa to visit another country – the Ambassador, or even the President or even the President+Congress, couldn’t block the American professor from going to Europe. What they can (and, in this case, seemingly did) is control who gets INTO the US. Thus, the US university was going to lose their professor’s salary (he would be teaching in Europe) and not get a European professor back – i.e. it’s a reasonable trade to just have professors switch positions, but it’s not a good trade to just send your staff to teach at other institutions while you still pick up their paychecks.
November 13th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Re rufusfyrfly’s comment “the First Amendment doesn’t help very much when the ambassador decides to blackball your visa.”
————
How can the US ambassador do that? The Visa requirement is a requirement imposed by the HOST country, not by the US government.
Couldn’t the university issuing the invitation to the US professor ask their government to issue a visa anyway?
November 13th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Sorry burritoboy — your post came up while I was typing up my post — and I didn’t see your explanation in time.
November 13th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Why are any troops in Afghanistan? I’m sorry, I just don’t find the argument for this seven year occupation and slaughter to be any more compelling than our invasion of Iraq. Bomb a country for seven years to (supposedly) catch a man who hasn’t been indicted because there isn’t sufficient evidence to do so.
Get tf out of Afghanistan, and Pakistan, and Syria… and Iraq.
OUT! OUT! OUT!
November 13th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
I’d like to echo both Sara and Robert Waldmann.
Certainly Balkenende’s opinion should be solicited with regards to Afghanistan, and perhaps Sarkozy’s. But to suggest that Merkel or Berlusconi have “soldiers” on the ground is a generous description of their role.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1580572/General-criticises-Afghanistan-troop-restrictions.html
No disrespect to the men and women of the German and Italian forces, but they are functioning almost exclusively in a reconstruction role.
Read this http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,554033,00.html and tell me that the Germans are functioning as soldiers.
The larger point of courteously soliciting the opinion of ISAF contributors is certainly valid. But my friends who have come back from Kandahar do not have a particularly high opinion of the Italian and German commands.
November 13th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
So, we need to look for advice from a bunch of countries who are only in Afghanistan to symbolically show their support for America? And it’s not like they are really even in Afghanistan. Sure, Obama can try different strategies than Bush but at the end of the day he is going to have to use America’s power and influence to persuade Europe to support our interests. I just hope he doesn’t let his global popularity get in the way of being president of America.
November 13th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Re Matthew’s comment “The other thing is that even though the US progressive community has a lot of very smart people in it and a lot of very good ideas, it’s just in the nature of things that, having been out of power for the past eight years, ”
———-
More like out of power for 90 years.
That’s assuming that you’re talking about the REAL Progressives.
November 13th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Well, their soldiers are really getting killed, certainly. Nothing symbolic about that. So I wouldn’t suggest that President Obama use your argument. This is all about asking nicely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan.
November 13th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Wyre,
If we can agree that Afghanistan is in our Western collective interests, it is safe to say certain European countries are getting a free pass. America should do more to discourage this behaviour, even if that means asking nicely. But sometimes asking nicely doesn’t work and being soft leads to being taken advantage of. I agree Obama should use his celebrity-like status in a respectful way, but he also shouldn’t be afraid to give it up if need be.
November 13th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
gekko? Stop talking shite.
My earlier comment’s in moderation, but in brief: Rory Stewart’s sceptical about Obama’s plan for Afghanistan. He’s going to be at the Kennedy School next year.
November 13th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Wiley said: …to (supposedly) catch a man who hasn’t been indicted because there isn’t sufficient evidence to do so…
Reality check: in most cases, anywhere, a suspect is caught before the legal indictment. Doing it in absentia is the exception, not the rule.
November 13th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Well, cmholm, if police routinely sent in the military to carpet bomb every neighborhood where the suspect might be hiding you’d have the argument that two wrongs make a right.
November 13th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Wiley, I don’t think you are going to get what you want instantly, but it’s not what you think. People I trust (not Bob Woodward) say the DOD are locating the top AQ, including bin Ladin and they happen to be in Pakistan. Obama is going to pull the trigger on them, he has to, I doubt he will get more than pro forma criticism of Pakistan for doing it. After that, I think the Taliban that doesn’t want to talk is cut out of every source of funding they have.
We aren’t doing anything helpful in Afghanistan right now, and if our forward mission looks anything like the last eight years (sit around in forward bases and wait to get mortared and reverse zenith mortars and open up 160 mm artillery on them, go out once in awhile and be bait) that’s foolish and we should hang it up.
November 13th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
I just like the idea of a foreign policy that involves listening to other people.
November 14th, 2008 at 12:47 am
Ddunk at 13 is missing the point. If your aim is to get those countries to make a different kind of contribution, you’ll have to talk to them diplomatically, instead of going on and on about how they’re cowards and such for not killing enough brown people. Here’s a newsflash: If Italy and Germany don’t want to ‘help’ with that, there’s nothing the US can do. Ask nicely and offer an incentive.
November 14th, 2008 at 5:43 am
Very well said Matt. It seems incredibly obvious when you say it but it is actually quite rare to see this said so clearly on either side of the Atlantic. For some reason this kind of common sense is eschewed for extremes: extreme arrogance, extreme cravenness, extreme anti-Americanism.
November 14th, 2008 at 9:09 am
everyone understands that we’re a big important country whose views need to be taken very seriously. Under the circumstances, it makes a lot of sense to try to be polite and respectful
But it won’t be enough. Europe has had a very negative image of the US lately not because of a few Rumsfeld’s comments, but because of American actual policies. Europeans expect real change, not some kind of “polite and respectful” new tone from US officials.
November 14th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Swiss officials…are you kidding me? Your use of the term petty bull shit suggests you may have no real clue and suffer from a substantial amount of Europe envy. Yes, envy that these cowering Europeans really matter in global politics. Please get your facts straight before you decide to tell us what’s going on from the European point of view. You ignore history and your choose to point the finger again and again at George Bush and fail to realize the separation in global views between Europe and the USA occurred following the fall of the Soviet Union. It’s widely known by anyone who studies global politics that Europeans hold all Americans in contempt as backwards hicks with no culture. these europeans you cite pulled away, not the U.S. when they felt secure again. They resent the U.S. for our ability to create, prosper and lead the world. This notion that Geroge Bushg’s administration attempted to bully Europe is delusional at best. Under the Clinton administration the politics of self U.S. interest began in response to indifference from your European friends. You sir, are a moron!
November 14th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
One is simply that most Americans don’t fully grasp the volume of petty bullshit that European foreign ministries have been putting up with for the past eight years.
Alas, “most Americans” aren’t on paid junkets, lapping up what they’re told.
Man, this is a very sad parody of journalism.
One that ostensible 21st century progressives (not the bigoted yahoos of ye olden times that the inimitable Don Williams recalls with such touching nostalgia) probably should note, and perhaps even care about.
Yglesias wrote on November 7th that he’s on “week-long trip to Switzerland courtesy of the Swiss-America Foundation during which time I’ll be learning important things about the Switzerland, the Swiss-American relationship, and of course how to implement European-style socialism here in the USA.”
No “Swiss-American Foundation” can be found via Google!
Dear Lord! No doubt the boy blogger just got the name wrong! Still, this is a bad joke on so, so many levels!
Look – step one would be the basic questions. 1) What are you doing, Yglesias? 2) Who’s paying for it?
Can we please just get that out of the way?
I’m sure it’s nothing horrendous. But Yglesias needs to at least pretend he’s an adult with respect for both his craft and his readers.
Have no fear, folks. Once we get that rudimentary bit out of the way the commentators can return to their usual M.O.’s: ranting about various Jewish millionaires (complete with links), fascinating tales about their past lives as anarchist bank robbers, random autographically digressions and bursts of self-pity, etc.
November 14th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Germany won’t send any more troops for two reasons:
1.) The German public (right, middle and left alike) won’t have it. The current scope of the German engagement is already pushing the limit as far as public acceptance goes.
2.) Germany, and other European countries, simply disagree with the US on what should be done to solve the problems in Afghanistan. These are genuine policy differences and they won’t go away under Obama.
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The American people trust that Barack Obama will conscientiously address foreign issues.
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Barack Obama is a racial-minority individual and does not like racism:
There is bad news.
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However, it is absolutely true that Ronald Wilson Reagan committed horrible, racist, hate crimes during his presidency.
A lot of people know about Reagan’s infamy.
And a lot of people will know about Reagan’s infamy—even until the end of human existence: they’ll find out.
Numbers 32:23: “Be sure your sins will find you out.”
Respectfully Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang, J.D. Candidate
B.S., With the Highest Level of Academic Honors at Graduation, 1996
Messiah College, Grantham, PA
Lower Merion High School, Ardmore, PA, 1993
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_________________
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