Matt Yglesias

20 Responses to “Skype Surveillance”

1. Keith M Ellis Says:
   October 4th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

   Really? This isn’t something I’ve talked or even really thought about much in the past, so I don’t have an emotional stake in disagreeing with you, but I think you’re obviously wrong.

   The Chinese government censors the Internet like mad and, as you point out, monitors everything they can; but there’s still far, far more unfettered discussion on a nationwide level than there ever was before.

   I’m not sure what “freedom” is, exactly, but clearly the Chinese people enjoy more ability to communicate and express opinions than they have in the past.

   The only thing keeping the Chinese people from having a successful democratic revolution that succeeds where Tienanmen failed is desire. The government isn’t really in the way. The Chinese are largely happy with things as they are. It’s certainly a vast improvement over even how things were twenty years ago.

2. wab104 Says:
   October 4th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

   And you think the US government doesn’t have a “massive program to conduct surveillance of Skype conversations”?

3. calipygian Says:
   October 4th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

   Whats even more shocking than the Chinese having a monitoring program is the fact that Canadian researchers were able to access it because of poor Chinese computer security.

4. Hector Says:
   October 4th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

   ‘Techno-utopian’ is basically shorthand for ‘bloody idiot’ so it shouldn’t surprise you when they are wrong about something.

   If any man thinks, after the Second World War, that technology will inevitably civilize us, then ‘f—ing idiot’ is too polite a term.

5. Hector Says:
   October 4th, 2008 at 5:43 pm

   Let’s also not forget a big reason why China will never have a revolution. Revolutions are usually made by young people and, thanks to the forced-abortion and forced-infanticide policies over the last three decades, China has a relatively small number of them.

6. Tom Says:
   October 4th, 2008 at 6:16 pm

   Obligatory link: James Fallows’ definitive article on the Great Firewall of China.

   With that said, it might be worth pointing out that this spying only applied to text messages sent from Skype (I think), not voice conversations as much of the coverage has implied. And although modern tech on its own isn’t going to spur a democratic revolution, it seems certain that it will make such a movement much, much more successful when and if it arises.

7. st'eve Says:
   October 4th, 2008 at 7:03 pm

   Citizen, remain seated on the striped recliner, place the White Castle box on the floor, and secure your phone’s self-arrest strap loosely around your neck.

8. Richard Steven Hack Says:
   October 5th, 2008 at 12:56 am

   Hector, technology isn’t going to “civilize” you, it’s going to eliminate you.

   THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS! FOR CAMERON!

9. nolaboyd Says:
   October 5th, 2008 at 1:27 am

   Hector, your first comment is fine, but the second is worthy of ‘f–ing idiot’, as you put it. You’ll notice that the reproduction policies of China mean that we’re looking at a hundred million young men with no prospects for marriage. Young men being what they are, lots and lots of people are going to die somewhere, and the only way China will avoid a revolution is with a really big war (see: Crusades). Not a happy thought at all.

10. P Snowden Says:
    October 5th, 2008 at 10:58 am

    If you wanted to argue that the primary motivation behind the Crusades was something other than religious fervor, it would make more sense to claim that it was the result of having an idle warrior class that couldn’t be fully absorbed into the feudal-agricultural economy of the day. That isn’t a problem that China is likely to have.

    A dearth of marriageable women in China will lead to the importation of overseas Chinese (and other) brides, increased homosexuality or polyandry before it results in matrimonially-motivated military expansion. (Not that I don’t think the PRC will be shy in asserting themselves on the world scene once they are in a more secure position to do so.)

11. Michael Powe Says:
    October 5th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    I would say that Jasper Becker’s The Chinese would make good reading for those wanting to comment on modern Chinese society.

    Among the libertarian-leaning technorati, there is a tendency to regard technology as liberating — as in the famous “information wants to be free,” and John Gilmore’s fatuous “The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.”

    Technology demonstrates effects based on the nature of its deployment. The interstate highway made it possible for me to travel rapidly to Nebraska. It did not give me the ability to make that trip. That ability is invested in social and economic context.

    China will not achieve a democratic government in my lifetime (i.e., the next 30 years or so). That is simply because of the social and economic context in which technology is deployed there. I don’t believe the argument about technology in China is anything but lips flapping without an understanding of the history and the society in which that technology is deployed.

    Thanks.

    mp

12. Kolohe Says:
    October 5th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    but still a sobering reminder that a lot of techno-utopian talk about communications technology inevitably bringing freedom to China looks more than a little overblown.

    OTOH, you also can’t say that a step backwards means that ‘progress’ is impossible. Or did you think that the temporary bump in McCain’s chances for the presidency immediately after his convention meant that Obama’s chances were overblown?

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