Oct 19th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Powell on Muslims
It’s good every time you see anyone hitting the right tone on this:
Stressing that Obama was a lifelong Christian, Powell denounced Republican tactics that he said were insulting not only to to Obama but also to Muslims.
“The really right answer is what if he is?” Powell said, praising the contributions of millions of Muslim citizens to American society.
Exactly so. We can’t allow ourselves to become a society where “Muslim” or “Arab” is a dirty word.
45 Responses to “Powell on Muslims”
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October 19th, 2008 at 11:16 am
We can’t allow ourselves to become a society where “Muslim” or “Arab” is a dirty word.
Actually, we already are such a society. The real work is to become not one.
October 19th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Mr. Yglesias,
Don’t be dumb. If someone claims to be a Christian, then it is an insult to call them a Muslim. I would expect that one of your Jewish ancestors would be highly insulted if someone took him for a Christian, and with good reason.
Furthermore, if you called me, for example, a Muslim, or for that matter an agnostic, you would be implying that I deny the divinity of Christ and the Holy Spirit. Since I view my belief in these things as a critically important aspect of understanding the true nature of the world, naturally I would take offense.
October 19th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Way to miss the point Hector. Now say that a candidate who was straight was rumored to be gay. While those spreading the rumor more mean it as an insult, anyone with half a brain knows that it is not bad to be gay. The same thing applies to being a member of any religion (well, maybe not Scientology).
October 19th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Okay, I think Hector kind of gets it, but not really. Yes, it’s insulting to mischaracterize someone’s religion. What Powell is referring to is not this mischaracterization of Obama’s religion, but rather the insinuation that being Muslim WOULD HYPOTHETICALLY disqualify someone from being president. This separates the “Obama is a wolf in sheep’s clothing” types — who supposedly have a problem with Obama “hiding” his Muslim faith and pretending to be Christian — from those who simply say “He’s a Muslim” and give this as a legitimate reason not to vote for him.
Powell gets to the heart of it here. He was moving and convincing.
October 19th, 2008 at 11:37 am
“We can’t allow ourselves to become a society where “Muslim” or “Arab” is a dirty word.”
Um, too late.
October 19th, 2008 at 11:40 am
W is president because of Powell. Powell can’t put Obama in the White House. Millions of vaguely partisan voters, often nominally Republican knew W was an ignorant lightweight and again I heard in person and in print “but he will have good advisors”. By which they meant Powell.
Then the ink was not dry on the SC selection, Cheney began stabbing him in the back. He would have taken the SoS job away from him if he could have but that was one beyond his power. In the bureaucratic games however it was full attack mode from day one. From day one it was humiliation upon humiliation heaped on Colin. He took it, like a mouse. Then he ‘agonized’ over the UN speech and ‘fought’ over the ‘evidence’. They delivered that stipid dishonest speech.
Forget the one mother. All the blood is on his hands. His ten figure net worth are surely adequate compensation. Oh, and the Rolls he got from the Prince.
October 19th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Hector must have been living in some nicer version of American la-la land where the biggest issue about calling Obama a Muslim is that it mischaracterizes his faith, not that it is obviously code for associating Obama with terrorist and 9/11.
Actually, that sounds like a nice place to live. Mind telling us where you live, sir?
October 19th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Remember, within seven years of the conclusion of a war with Germany, the United States elected a president with the distinctly Teutonic name “Eisenhower.” Thus, we can expect that a genunine Muslim president may be elected shortly after the conclusion of the present conflict. Whenever that is.
(Some wag might also joke, “And immediately after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US elected a Communist.”)
October 19th, 2008 at 11:50 am
This is becoming incredibly toxic.
My Catholic father, who suffered anti-Catholic discrimination in his lifetime, now says things like “well, I don’t know enough about Islam to know if this kind of suspicion is warranted. I mean, what’s its tenets, what’s the beliefs?” It’s horrifying.
You put any religion under a microscope, it’s going to look dangerous and extreme. I mean, there’s the whole “I come not to bring peace but a sword” in Christianity, the whole anyone who puts their mother or father before me is not worthy of salvation. Not suggesting that Christians are lunatics or Christianity preaches violence and death, but that it would be very easy to make it look as if it did.
Seriously, does anyone else think the problems in Northern Ireland were caused by doctrinal differences on the precise nature of transubstantiation? Anyone believe Al Smith lost the election because Catholics were really subversives who would follow secret orders from Rome?
And yet we’re beginning to see the building of the same myths around Muslims. I’m sure within a year we’ll hear they all have to harbor a secret obedience to the Caliphate or something equally ridiculous as the “Catholics are agents of the Pope” nonsense.
October 19th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
The point is that America has become a collection of panty piddling paranoids who are convinced - convinced! - that Islam will soon Conquer the World and haul us off to the ovens. The Clash of Civilizations! Eurabia! The Caliphate! Islam’s Bloody Borders! Better break out the Depends.
October 19th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
The BBC gave a fuller — and stronger — quote:
“Well the correct answer is, ‘He’s not a Muslim, he’s a Christian, he’s always been a Christian’. But the really right answer is, “What if he is?’ Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is ‘No’, that’s not America.”
I liked the coinage “the really right answer”.
It seems that Powell knows his First Ammendment.
October 19th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Ranting about arabs and muslims 24/7 has been 100% compatible with membership of the US establishment for decades now, as the last generation’s worth of the New Republic is sufficient to demonstrate. We’re just beginning to become conscious of the pre-existing normality of arab-as-a-dirty-wordism in US society.
October 19th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_c5bbvmqc
His press conference is pretty interesting too. Watch around 1:50 where he called out McCain’s campaign for calling Obama socialist “because he (Obama) dares to suggest that maybe we ought to look at the tax structure we have”. Finally, a Republican who understands that “taxes are always a REDISTRIBUTION of money”.
October 19th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
See also the 28 copies of the DVD Obsession.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n19/shtz01_.html
October 19th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Er, 28 million.
October 19th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_c5bbvmqc
His press conference is pretty interesting too. Watch around 1:50 where he called out McCain’s campaign for calling Obama socialist “because he (Obama) dares to suggest that maybe we ought to look at the tax structure we have”. Finally, a Republican who understands that “taxes are always a REDISTRIBUTION of money”.
October 19th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
I had a prof who expressed shame at having been sucked in by Bush’s lies in the 2000 election. Once it became clear that he was full of horseshit, Powell jumped ship, as well he should have.
I for one have never lost respect for him. People make mistakes. He took responsibility for his.
October 19th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
If Obama were a Muslim, he would not be electable. If he comes to be seen by enough people as Muslim, he will be unelectable. The task at hand therefore is to prevent the lie that he’s a Muslim from being believed. I wouldn’t hold it against him if he were, but I’d sure hate to lose this election because people think he is.
October 19th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Most people don’t make mistakes of the sort that involve making statements they know to be lies, which then cost more than one hundred thousand people their lives.
As pointed out in another thread, Hans Blix and others had access to the same data as Powell and called bullshit at the time. There really is no amount of atonement that will make Powell’s wrong okay.
October 19th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Certain Christians have made Christian a negative… call me Episcopalian. At any rate, Powell’s point about the narrowing of the Republican party was a good one.
October 19th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
I’m glad to see so many intellectuals devoting their time to comment on this matter.
As a muslim, it breaks my heart to see Islam being interpreted as violant and brutal religion that doesn’t have any tolerance towards non-muslims.
The American and British goverments(non the people) has invested substantial amounts of time and money to create Islamicphobia for acquiring a license to kill.
We all know when the east crashed, America needed a new enemy and Islam became appropriate for that cause.
It’s so reassuring to see open minded people like you guys.
October 19th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Hamze, the liberal US concept of the ‘good Muslim’ is that s/he’s a good, reliable anti-communist. What the US citizens themselves do not understand is that imperialism can use the more or less disorganised and subverted Muslim anti-communist militias, that it itself sponsored for decades in Asia, to continue to press Russia and China, while simultaneously attacking them in the rear for being ‘Islamists’. It’s cruel, but empires know how to do this sort of thing.
October 19th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
As a muslim, it breaks my heart to see Islam being interpreted as violant and brutal religion that doesn’t have any tolerance towards non-muslims.
Perhaps few non-muslim Americans have read
Sura 109, which appears to be deeply constitutional:
“To you is your religion, and to me is my religion.”
Salam/shalom/pax
David bin Francis
October 19th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
“As pointed out in another thread, Hans Blix and others had access to the same data as Powell and called bullshit at the time.”
I didn’t have access to the same data, and I called bullshit at the time. The presentation spoke for itself. Artist renderings of theoretical weapons? Give me break. Either you have evidence or you don’t. And if you don’t, artist renderings don’t cut it. What was sad is that I watched that speech in a bar in New Zealand. And most of the people were convinced. Why? “Well, it’s Colin Powell, and we trust him,” they said. He gave immediate credibility to a lie because of who he was. They turned one of his greatest strengths, his loyalty, against him. I can’t help but fault Mr. Powell, but I also can’t help but feel sorry for him. I guess he thought he could control things better if he were involved. But he was wrong. I have no doubt that he thinks that was the biggest mistake of his life.
October 19th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Exactly! If people of faith don’t stick together, those uppity atheists might get some ideas. They might even fight back, and where will our proper stigmas be then?
October 19th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
matt, it actually is now a dirty word and there is plenty of evidence. for instance, islam is now advertising on the ny subways! imagine that, a religion having to actively provide good pr for itself.
October 19th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
There also advertisements for Islam (run by a particular Islamic organization, I guess) on the sides of Chicago public buses. I think the intent is more for seeking converts than promoting good PR, though.
October 20th, 2008 at 3:08 am
Obama has never claimed to be a “lifelong Christian.” He has only claimed to be a Christian since 1992.
October 20th, 2008 at 4:08 am
Yes, without a doubt, we already are that kind of society. The real question is: Why is this criticism being leveled from the right rather than the left? Where have all the Pelosi/Reid/liberal bloggers been? I can’t recall anyone making a big enough deal out of the hate-mongering against Muslims (and I include Obama’s campaign and supporters in this for never once saying that there is nothing wrong with being Muslim,) until Campbell Brown on frickin’ CNN went out on a limb. Shameful.
October 20th, 2008 at 5:17 am
Muslims should go home. After 9-11 that last thing we need are terrorists on our soil.
October 20th, 2008 at 11:17 am
True, but it still is relevant. Although there is separation of church and state, most Americans would consider a candidates faith to be a matter to weigh. I think that was part of what happened to Mitt Romney.
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