Matthew Yglesias » Guilt By Association

Oct 6th, 2008 at 8:42 am

Guilt By Association

Barack Obama once served on a board with ex-Weatherman William Ayers. John McCain:

Watergate crook Gordon Liddy has contributed money to McCain’s campaigns, hosted a fundraiser for him, and received praise from McCain for his adherence to principle.
McCain sought out, and received, the endorsement of the Rev John Hagee who believes that Katrina was God’s punishment to New Orleans for hosting a gay pride parade.
McCain was a longtime associate of S&L kingpin Charles Keating, a beneficiary of Keating’s largess, and a doer of favors for Keating for which conduct he was officially reprimanded by the United States Senate.
McCain has employed Richard Quinn, publisher of a Confederate nostalgia magazine.
McCain served on the US Council for World Freedom, a far-right group whose parent organization was described by the Anti-Defamation League as “increasingly . . . a gathering place, a forum, a point of contact for extremists, racists and anti-semites.”

Just noting.

Comments
43

43 Responses to “Guilt By Association”

George Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 8:45 am
IOKIYAR. QED.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 8:48 am
This is going to get interesting. Tom Brokaw ought to be ashamed of himself.
SHF Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Don’t forget Bible Spice’s husband’s recent membership in the Alaskan secessionist party and her crazy witch doctor.
dan Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 8:55 am
and he spent his birthday with a con man and his starlet girlfriend.
DTM Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 8:56 am
The Obama Campaign is rightly putting the most emphasis on the Keating angle because it is actually not just a case of guilt by association, and it is relevant to current issues.

Incidentally, the importance of that first factor is currently being highlighted by the fact that part of McCain’s defense on the Keating angle is pointing out that three of the “Keating Five” are endorsing Obama. That is transparently silly, precisely because it is one thing to be endorsed by one of these people, and entirely another thing to actually be one of these people yourself. And so McCain is unwittingly highlighting the difference.
Thomas Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Great! Now that Matt has dutifully typed of the Obama campaign’s talking points, we can start talking about Obama’s friends. I mean, we know that McCain isn’t a racist, isn’t a bigot, and isn’t a crook–heck, Joe Biden would be happy to serve as a character witness for the defense.

But the subject itself? Nothing wrong with talking about it. Why does Obama associate himself with people who hate America? What does he see in them?
Harvey Lobster Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:00 am
That’s all well and good, Matt. But we all know that there is a critical difference between the two: McCain is white and Obama is black. We can never be too vigilant, seemingly, where black men are concerned.
Bill Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:06 am
Mccain also served in the senate with one Barack Obama, a known associate of terrorists.

what is mccain hiding?!
steve duncan Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Matt, Matt, Matt, these are not personal failings a hockey mom or Joe Sixpack gives a damn about. Golly, doggone it, can’t you geewilickers dontcha know?
Thomas Frank Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:08 am
This is a good first draft. We now need to make a clear distinction between the depth of McCain’s relationship with these individuals (funding, vacationing and praising) and the tangental connection Obama has Bill Ayers. Otherwise, it is just a list, and the winner of that game will go to the camp that is better at creating a negative tone in the art of demonization, and that usually goes to the Republicans.

Perhaps we could also attain a list of Republicans, or conservative economist from the University of Chicago, who also served on various boards with Bill Ayers.
Joel Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:09 am
“Why does Obama associate himself with people who hate America?”

He doesn’t. In fact, he as explicitly dissociated himself from Ayers.

Why did you post a lie on this thread?
hermano Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:11 am
you do realize that these associations mccain has are all with some other white caucasians right?

what i’m saying is that, if you’re white and battling a black guy, the white guy gets away with all these associations.
Mudge Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:21 am
I am not inclined to totally condemn people of little influence who despise racism and totalitarianism with passion. You obviously do not live in their America, Thomas. If you rail against regulations, as most McCain partisans do, do you not also hate America? The true criminal class, those who hate America, are those in power who seek to circumvent American law and values: those who make elective war, those who reduce our freedoms, those who empty our pockets. You seem to celebrate these men. John McCain certainly does.
El Cid Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Thomas raises a good point — why does John McCain associate with so many people who hate America?

Why does financial terrorist Phil Gramm, who helped cause this nation a trillion dollars in damage, walk free, and John McCain isn’t constantly hammered for gleefully backing this hateful, anti-American traitor?

Good lord — administration stalwart John Negroponte was running the death squad tyranny of Honduras, and look at all the times John McCain stood with this known organizer of mass murder!

How is it that a dangerous associate of anti-American death-dealers is a serious candidate for President in this country?
tomboy Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:23 am
I’m guessing McCain has some links to Oliver North, too, another unrepentant felon. Wingnuts have been saying for years that we’ve been at war with Iran since 1979. Certainly that would make Oliver North guilty of aiding the enemy.
Not as stupid as Thomas Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Why did you post a lie on this thread?

Thomas the moron posts lies on threads because Thomas hates America. If he didn’t he wouldn’t have supported aiding and abetting our enemies by undermining our military force. He wouldn’t have spent years supporting people who, either from malice or incompetence, undermined our financial system. If Thomas didn’t hate America he wouldn’t associate himself with a large group of people who have spent the past decade attempting to destroy our system of government.
rea Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:36 am
If Thomas didn’t hate America he wouldn’t associate himself with a large group of people who have spent the past decade attempting to destroy our system of government.

What, NASAT, is Thomas a Republican or something?
Thomas Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Joel, you are correct that Obama has thrown Ayers over; he did that earlier this year. He’s know this unrepentant terrorist for 13 years, and a couple of months ago he decided he’d seen enough. Similarly, he went to Wright’s church for 20 years, and in the midst of this campaign he decided he’d heard enough. But the question remains: What did he see in these men? Was it their hatred for America that attracted him? And what did they see in him?

Has he thrown Rezko over yet?
El Cid Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:40 am
How is it that these mass-murdering Republican anti-American terrorist associates keep getting to run for office?

I mean, good lord, you could probably send the entire Southern Florida Republican Party to some non-U.S. prison for their terrorist associations, and probably the drug trade and organized crime industries in Southern Florida would shrink as a result.

Because if there’s one thing we know about Republicans, it’s that they love mass-murdering death squad organized crime syndicates. And hate America.
Becca Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 9:40 am
LA Times has a good article on McCain’s flying record today. The bad judgement and arrogance of McCain comes shining through. Ties in perfectly with the craps-shooting gambler story in the NYT’s last week. A new picture of McCain, the inveterate risk taker, is emerging and it’s not pretty.

I don’t think McCain can bear the scorn of his so carefully crafted image, whether he wins or loses. If he wins, everyone will know it’s because he won “dirty”. GWB all over. If he loses, he’ll be irrelevant on the national stage.
Jeffrey Davis Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Sarah Palin regularly pals around with a famous Alaskan Separatist. I understand she’s even slept with one. He may have even fathered one of her kids.
noah Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 10:11 am
McCain sought out, and received, the endorsement of the Rev John Hagee who believes that Katrina was God’s punishment to New Orleans for hosting a gay pride parade.

it’s somewhat hypicritical not to mention that McCain said “I did not know of them before Reverend Hagee’s endorsement, and I feel I must reject his endorsement as well.” after this all came to light.

As a liberal, it’s irritating to see other liberals conveniently leave out important information. just sayin.
Jeffrey Davis Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 10:23 am
My favorite Guilt by Association is one of Dutch Reagan’s. Connoisseurs of the genre know where I’m going with this.

One of Reagan’s “Kitchen Cabinet” was a millionaire name Alfred Bloomingdale who had a mistress, Vicki Morgan, with whom he indulged his S&M fantasies. After Bloomingdale died and Morgan’s meal money was cut-off, she sued the Bloomingdale estate for what she felt was hers, lost, and then threatened to write a tell-all book. She was beaten to death for her trouble. You can’t really get deep into the genre without going for the S&M and murder stuff.

That’s the trouble with Guilt by Association. Everyone but Shenouda the Archimandrite have so many questionable associates.
James Robertson Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Yet another point Matt won’t ponder, because it might burst the cognitive dissonance:

Did McCain launch his political career in any of those people’s living rooms? Did he work as a “community organizer”, which is an avowedly Marxist job?
El Cid Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 10:43 am
No, John McCain didn’t jump on the bandwagon of pressuring banking regulators and supporting a deregulatory madness that destroyed at least one branch of our banking sector and has put the entire globe in danger of collapse in someone’s living room.

John McCain signed on to such corruption and nation-destroying lunacy as a full-fledged politician, as a guy who knew exactly what he was doing.

Certainly, James Robertson is correct — it is absurd to compare the deeply anti-American crimes and horrendously destructive policies of a John McCain to questions about who got started in whose living room.

It’s just like there’s no way to compare Obama being near Ayers with the Palin’s open, conscious, ideological support for the actual, literal, anti-American, secessionist, lunatic militia philosophy of the pro-terrorist Alaska Independence Party.

No comparison — clearly, the Palins are actual demonstrated ideological enemies of our Union itself, whereas Obama shared a couple of rooms with a former radical attempted bomber.

In each case, McCain & Palin distinguish themselves by having their relations to dangerous and criminal sorts be actual, serious, literal threats to the nation.

That’s the difference.

The right wing loonies can go jack off in a corner about Bill Ayers all they want, but now it’s pretty clear to all Americans who the real America-haters are — the Republicans who continually commit themselves to destroying our country and its economic system. No one hates this country more than Republicans.
James Robertson Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Umm, I think you would be hard pressed to describe Ayers as anything but “deeply anti-American” at a minimum. The fact that Obama considers him a reasonable person says lots of bad things about his judgment.

I don’t carry any water for McCain, btw - I consider this an election between bad and worse, with Obama being worse. Primarily because McCain would be somewhat checked by an opposing Congress, while Obama would not be. The first two years of Obama will bring, at a minimum:

– the return of the “Fairness Doctrine”
– “Hate speech” laws
– The very anti-democratic “Card Check” union thing

The first two will damage the first amendment, and I have no faith in the Supreme Court to do the right thing. The third is simply thuggishness on a large scale.

This is a bad and worse election. And mind you, I’d have similar worries about McCain if the Republicans held Congress.
Matt Weiner Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Did McCain launch his political career in any of those people’s living rooms?

He launched his career in the living room of a mobbed-up bootlegger and convicted criminal. But really who gives a shit?
El Cid Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Again, because you seem to be slow on the uptake, I wasn’t saying Bill Ayers wasn’t anti-American, but that Obama had no credible association to any of Ayers’ would-be terrorist acts nor his philosophy, and thus there was no real nor interesting tie between Obama and Ayers while John McCain’s and Sarah Palin’s associations were openly and demonstrably seditious and damaging to the nation.

So, again, Obama has nothing, zip, nada to be ashamed of by being on a committee with Bill Ayers, while John McCain openly worked to destroy this nation & its economy through near-criminal pressuring of bank regulators and a lunatic, anti-American committment to financial de-regulation.
55 Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 11:17 am
I hope McCain runs his racist campaign and still loses, so history remembers him as the scum that he is.
DTM Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Just in case people are wondering what a real relationship looks like:

McCain received over $100,000 in political contributions from Keating and his associates during his early House and then Senate career. McCain and his family made nine trips paid for by Keating, including several using Keating’s jet and three to Keating’s retreat in the Bahamas. Cindy McCain and her family had invested over $300,000 with Keating. McCain then met with the federal regulator closing in on Keating’s soon-to-fail Savings and Loan at Keating’s behest. Keating, by the way, spent four and a half years in prison for defrauding the elderly out of their life savings.

Again, I provide this review just in case people have forgotten what a real relationship looks like.
Brad L Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Did he work as a “community organizer”, which is an avowedly Marxist job?

This is the silliest sentence of the day, and it isn’t even noon yet.
Joel Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
This childish nonsense about Obama and Ayers is nothing but the wind going out of the Republican campaign.

80% of Americans say they believe America is on the wrong track. When asked what they consider to be the most important issue, they name the economy, health care and the US military occupation of Iraq. Ayers isn’t on the list.
Jess Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
The right-wing imagination is quite colorful. Now they think Obama launched his political career in Bill Ayers’ living room? I guess the lie just gets a life of its own, growing wildly outta sync with reality. Deleting all other important people and factors to boot, all to make the Ayers-Obama relationship believable and undeniable. No matter what the facts say. Sad.
DEsupportsMcCain Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
In February this year, on Fox News’ “Hannity and Colmes,” Senate Eithics Committee lawyer Robert Bennett said, “First, I should tell your listeners I’m a registered Democrat, so I’m not on (McCain’s) side of a lot of issues. But I investigated John McCain for a year and a half, at least, when I was special counsel to the Senate Ethics Committee in the Keating Five. … And if there is one thing I am absolutely confident of, it is John McCain is an honest man. I recommended to the Senate Ethics Committee that he be cut out of the case, that there was no evidence against him.”
Reginald Avery Wilkins, Ph.D. Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Speaking of associations (I guess we’ve dropt the “guilt by” prefix these days), I suffered through Hannity’s treatise on Obama last night. I forget the name but it may have been something like Obama’s Bad Guys Short and Tall.

After one hour of the best argument for the reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine imaginable, I can report the argument with ease: Obama is a Socialist, Muslim, Black Liberation Theologist, Terrorist, Community Organizing anti Israel half breed. (Okay, I made up the half breed part).

How, you ask, did Fox and its crack commentator come to this conclusion? Because, quite simply, Barack has either met with, read, done or visited or said something nice or refused to say something bad about people who share these characteristics.

If Sean had managed to stick around school a bit longer, he would have learned something about internal consistency. Barack may be any of these caricatures, but he can’t be all of them: there are no Catholic (i.e., Liberation Theology) Muslims who are stuck on Marx. It just doesn’t work that way.

But Fox isn’t interested in really finding anything about the True Barack Obama or his “associations.” Their headache stems from the fact that we know as much about him as they do. We just don’t care. We’re on to bigger problems like our 201Ks that Used to be 401Ks and the bank we used to have.

To be Fair and Balanced, let’s assume the worse: Barack Obama has met with and discussed things on a regular basis with everyone alleged. What does this mean? Based on what he’s stated in his campaign, it may mean nothing: “I will meet with any leader of a country at a time and place of my choosing” that will advance the interests of the United States.

Maybe the simplest explanation is that his campaign ideal regarding dialogue with adversaries is no different than his real life behavior. That half the world may be Muslim is probably a good reason to get to know some. That the only other guys who can blow up the world a few times over have some connection to socialism (i.e., Marx or Mao) might mean you might chat with some of their adherents. That someone would think his own government is capable of wartime atrocities and should be stopped with force might be a person worth understanding. Does that make him one? That’s a leap fit for feeble minds.
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Guilt By Association

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