Gotta Get Away From Iraq
I’ve kind of dropped the ball on this story, but it’s worth paying attention to the current wrangling over the security agreement with Iraq. The text does, after all, call for a “date-certain” withdrawal of American military forces from Iraq by the end of 2011. The Bush administration expended a huge amount of time and effort trying to secure more wiggle room on that timing. It’s not clear to me if they did that because they wanted to avoid endorsing what’s basically Obama’s Iraq strategy even though that’s what the Iraqi people want, or if they did that because they can’t abandon their neo-imperial fantasies even though that’s what the Iraqi people want. Doubtless, it was a convenient confluence of factors.
Still, even as it stands the agreement is highly controversial in Iraq. And for understandable reasons. What the US government wants is for American soldiers to operate freely in Iraqi territory, heavily armed, shooting bullets and blowing things up at their discretion, and to have immunity from Iraqi law as they do so. Obviously, that’s not acceptable to Iraqis. No American would stand for allowing foreign soldiers to roam the streets of our cities immune to American law — not even soldiers from close allies. At the same time, subjecting American soldiers to Iraqi law as they operate in a combat zone is completely unacceptable to the United States. As it should be. Those would be impossible conditions to subject American forces to. It’s all well and good for soldiers stationed abroad in a peacetime situation — Germany, Japan, etc. — to be subject to host country law when they go off base, but nobody’s expecting the Marines to get into a firefight in Seoul.
Now the obvious solution to this dilemma is for American soldiers to leave Iraq rapidly — that’s what Iraqis want, it would resolve the otherwise unresolvable jurisdictional issue, and it would let us start investing additional resources in productive ways at home. Instead, the Bush administration is going to keep wrangling and try to get Iraqis to agree to continued legal immunity.
43 Responses to “Gotta Get Away From Iraq”
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October 22nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm
No American would stand for allowing foreign soldiers to roam the streets of our cities immune to American law — not even soldiers from close allies.
So what? We’re not asking them to allow foreign soldiers to roam their streets. We are asking them to allow American soldiers to roam their streets. See, no problem.
And joking aside, I really think a substantial number of Americans have a hard time understanding that Americans can be foreign.
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:07 pm
SOFA agreements with Germany and Japan are slightly different with the Japanese more willing to try American servicemembers. The Germans used to retain only capital cases which might result in the American receiving capital punishment. As of late, they will relinquish those cases if the US promises to take capital punishment off the table.
Your last sentence misses the boat. I do not believe the issue is immunity as much as it is timeline. We were willing to let the Iraqis try Americans off duty and off base. The number of cases that it would have involved would have been miniscule as Americans are “on duty” when they are “off base”. There might be a few suicidal types that slip off base by themselves to get into trouble at which point they deserve to be tryed by Iraqis.
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Or, for that matter, understanding that America can do harm.
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:19 pm
I really think a substantial number of Americans have a hard time understanding that Americans can be foreign.
Or, for that matter, understanding that America can do harm.
I really think a substantial number of lefties have a hard time understanding just how clearly they betray their utter contempt for the American people with statements like this.
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Is this an Offspring reference?
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:23 pm
If we don’t occupy Iraq forever + 100 years, the terrorists’ cyborg descendants will laugh at our cyborg descendants.
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:36 pm
It is contemptuous to the American people to point out the reality that a substantial number of them have a very difficult time accepting the limitations and responsibilities of their country? Whatever.
If Americans have such frail egos that such a statement of fact bothers them, they deserve to hear it and complain of mine “contempt” for them. They need to get over themselves anyway.
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Sleater-Kinney, then Offspring. Matt keeps us guessing!
Really I’m pleased either way so long as there are no more pictures of dental procedures.
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:47 pm
That was nice of you, to come by here and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what the previous posters were asserting. Nice job!
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Link
Why does the secretary of defense betray his utter contempt for the American people with statements like this?
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
I really think a substantial number of Germans have a hard time understanding that Germans can be foreign.
I really think a substantial number of Brits have a hard time understanding that Brits can be foreign.
I really think a substantial number of Frenchies have a hard time understanding that Frenchies can be foreign.
I really think a substantial number of Italians have a hard time understanding that Italians can be foreign.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Good post. It gave me the opportunity to just sit back and think what it would be like to have foreign troops prowling our streets looking for enemies. Imagine leaving one’s house and walking by “foreign looking” troops armed to the teeth knowing they could blow your head off without any ramifications. I suggest we Americans are so used to having our troops setting the rules for other countries we don’t consider the impact of our actions. What else isn’t new.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:20 pm
I really think a substantial number of lefties
Substantial number? What’s that? 2? 3?
As a chicken rhetorical device, “substantial number” isn’t an improvement on “some”.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Note to self: always check to see if some other poster has reached the same conclusion.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Heck, significant segments of the American population don’t even like Americans from other parts of America. It’s not hard to predict how those people would react to soldiers from another continent patrolling Main Street. Talk about “outside agitators”. . .
And I’m still waiting to hear Mixner explain whether he thinks secretary of defense Gates has a lot of contempt for America, or just the usual amount.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:50 pm
I really think a substantial number of [Germans, British, French, Italians] have a hard time understanding that Germans can be foreign.
Ah, you see, Tony Poodle’s Iraq fiasco notwithstanding, those European countries got a glimmering of insight on the topic from their failed imperial endeavors. The Germans, in particular, had to be beaten on over and over again until they learned some basic manners and humility. They haven’t caused any serious problems for 63 years, at this point.
I think the majority of our citizens have a basic understanding of how nationalist arrogance has harmed our country repeatedly over the decades since The Quiet American predicted that our attitude was going to burn us in these overseas adventures. Unfortunately, the clueless minority are the core of McCain’s political following.
October 22nd, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Note to self: always check to see if some other poster has reached the same conclusion.
Note to dubois: always check to see who used the phrase in question first.
October 22nd, 2008 at 4:03 pm
those European countries got a glimmering of insight on the topic from their failed imperial endeavors.
Let us know when they finally get around to cleaning up the incredible messes they created through those endeavors, then you might be in a position to compare them favorably to the U.S.
October 22nd, 2008 at 4:04 pm
As we are a bunch of ignorant, arrogant, intolerant, xenophobic foreigners, I think it is vital that we pull back and follow an isolationist foreign policy. We should let more enlightened types like the Russians, British, French, Germans, Chinese, Pakistanis, Indians, Sudanese, Saudis, etc. solve the worlds problems – not!
October 22nd, 2008 at 4:11 pm
There’s nothing more pathetic than Americans who hate their own country.
October 22nd, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Do you think Secretary of Defense Gates hates his own country?
October 22nd, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Nancy – but you won’t see any of them trying to leave.
I think that people who consider the US to be some sort of bully pariah need to get out more. We still need to strive to meet our potential but the world is voting with it’s feet; all roads lead to the good ol’ US of A.
October 22nd, 2008 at 4:47 pm
And why shouldn’t they? The “country first” crowd is so very welcoming of immigrants.
Speaking of which, we all know the reason Mexicans come to the US isn’t because it’s right next door, but becuase we’re number one! ! ! !
That’s also why so many Germans, British, Canadian, etc. people are abandoning their own countries to emigrate here.
October 22nd, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Notorious P.A.T. = notorious America-hater. He’s been pushing this bullshit for years.
October 22nd, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Notorious P.A.T – before you get too smug, when I lived in Germany the US had a permanent resident visa lottery. One year they had over 10 applications for every visa. Mexicans don’t come to the US because we are #1; they come because stuff works here like it is supposed to in their country.
October 22nd, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Powerful people generally have scant idea of or concern for the damage they do to the less powerful. Delicious irony: when finally confronted with evidence of the damage done, powerful people generally blame their victims.
October 23rd, 2008 at 4:23 am
That’s also why so many Germans, British, Canadian, etc. people are abandoning their own countries to emigrate here
And, heaven knows, no one ever immigrates into Germany, Britain or Canada, because they’re such third-world hellholes.
Let us know when they finally get around to cleaning up the incredible messes they created through those endeavors, then you might be in a position to compare them favorably to the U.S.
OK, we’ll clean up the incredible mess we left in Australia and you clean up the incredible mess you’ve made in Iraq.
…
Right, we’re done! How are you getting on?
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