A Question
Here’s an issue I would like the Corner to clear up for me. Is their idea about Barack Obama’s crypto-radicalism that he’s wildly different from other Democrats, such that, say, Chuck Schumer and Dick Durbin and Patty Murray are immune to these kind of accusations? Or is the idea that Obama, in secretly being a radical left-winger, is just typical of mainstream progressive politicians? I mean, given that Jonah Goldberg believes that contemporary American liberalism is a form of fascism, accusing particular liberals of having tenuous ties to obscure radicals seems a bit odd. It’s like harping on Hitler’s ties to Franco (except, of course, that in National Review-land Franco is a great hero). I mean, isn’t the real story here that Bill Ayers is a fascist?
39 Responses to “A Question”
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October 23rd, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Wait, are you serious: The Corner digs Franco?
So does that mean they only despise fascists that LOSE?
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
You do realize Franco is still dead, right?
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Jonah Goldberg isn’t worth discussing until he finds a dictionary and realizes the true definition of fascist.
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:29 pm
“typical of mainstream progressive politicians”
Yes, it is typical. Schumer represents my state and we have a big flag burning party every May Day.
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Jonah Goldberg makes me laugh. He seems perpetuously pissed (as do most at the corner ect).
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
They probably operate under the assumption that Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller were middle-of-the-road Democrats with some unnamed theoretical conservative Democrats to the right of them.
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:46 pm
“Wait, are you serious: The Corner digs Franco?”
When Franco died, NR published an obituary by Buckley’s brother that included mash notes like this: “A Spaniard out of the heroic annals of the nation, a giant. He will be truly mourned by Spain because with all his heart and might and soul, he loved his country, and in the vast context of Spanish history, did well by it.”
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:55 pm
No, not at all. It’s a matter of political hygiene. Liberals and conservatives both have extremist or radical elements. But conservatives do not embrace theirs–to the contrary, they push their extremists away. And liberals for a long time did the same thing. Dick Durbin is a liberal, but he doesn’t hang out with Bill Ayers.
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
IME, the “open minded” conservative argument is this: “unlike you dirty hippies who are partisan Democrats, I am not a partisan … I would vote for a Democrat, even for President. It’s just that Obama is not a mainstream Democrat but he represents the extremist liberal so-called base of the party”. Of course, in this argument “Obama” is just a place-holder … if the Dems. were to run Joe Lieberman, you’d be hearing from these some conservatives who “would, you betcha, vote for a Dem … just not for one of those radical, liberal Dems”, “”unlike you dirty hippies who are partisan Democrats, I am not a partisan … I would vote for a Democrat, even for President. It’s just that Lieberman is not a mainstream Democrat but he represents the extremist liberal so-called base of the party”
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Funniest thing I’ve heard all week!
That WAS satire, right?
(Sigh, just for the record, and for the 100,000th time, Obama never “hung out with” Ayers, unless all the Republican politicians who served on the Annenberg Challenge board were also “hanging out” with him.)
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Ok, then on what issues does Barack Obama support a more liberal policy than Dick Durbin does?
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:00 pm
I think the Repigs’ desperation would have caused them to label any conceivable Democratic nominee a “socialist” or some other type of radical. (Remember the stuff they said about HRC?) With Obama, however, they probably think his exotic name and biography would be more likely to make it stick.
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:00 pm
It’s because Schumer isn’t in the same tribe as Kenya’s prime minister. (I’m pretty sure Schumer’s Maasai).
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:00 pm
And while we’re at it, can we ask them how many other secret agents were deployed by the Muslim/Socialist/Hippie/Whatever conspiracy, from 1960 either? Not looking for a census, obviously, but just a ballpark number.
I’d like to get a better idea of what their little Peter Gunn fantasy world looks like.
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:01 pm
conservatives do not embrace theirs–to the contrary, they push their extremists away.
Oh, that’s fucking funny. The extremist right has become the mainstream of the Republican Party. Sarah Palin is a little bit Freeper, a little bit LGF, a little bit witch-hunter fundie, a little bit militia.
Were you around for the Terry Schiavo insanity?
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Liberals and conservatives both have extremist or radical elements. But conservatives do not embrace theirs
Senator McCain has worked with convicted-felon (and wannabe terrorist) G. Gordon Liddy. So maybe you don’t know what you’re talking about.
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:05 pm
They probably operate under the assumption that Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller were middle-of-the-road Democrats with some unnamed theoretical conservative Democrats to the right of them.
They also believe that John F. Kennedy supported cutting the top tax rate from 90% to something lower (though still much higher than it is now), so therefore he was a “tax cutter” who would support all tax cuts at all times and would now be a Republican.
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Why the fuck would you want the Corner to do anything? Is there some sort of gentleman’s agreement in the quasi-professional center-left blogosphere to link to every single goddamn post of theirs (or, in the alternative, set them up as the arbiters of anything apart from 26% dead-ender reactionary bullshit)?
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Sounds accurate. I’d rank him above the Vandals but below the Visigoths.
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Bill Ayers a fascist ? Actually in his Weatherman incarnation, he and his wife were about as close to an “objectively nihilistic”, CultRev Maoist version of “leftwing fascism” as you could get.
A Brownshirt approach to political action. Of course, this judgement on the Weatherassholes has nothing to do with Jonah Goldberg’s feeble attempts at “analysis.”
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:53 pm
How sad. MattY tries to throw out some red meat for the TP jackals, and only gets 20 attempts at “jokes” in return.
I don’t know about the Corner, but part of the issue is that some things, say, Durbin has said haven’t been covered at all despite showing that he has little concept of basic American concepts.
But, even despite that, BHO has gone well beyond the “progressive” game plan and has had working relationships with several far-left or highly questionable people. Those are relationships that “progressive” leaders like Chuck Schumer and Dick Durbin and Patty Murray would not have been able to get away with. If Chuckie had directed around $1 million to BillAyers he’d probably have been driven out of the Senate by now. If Patty had served on boards that gave an additional amount just shy of $1 million to someone whose group killed three people when she was 19 years old, she’d be working at WalMart.
Yet, for some strange reason – I think having to do with today’s or yesterday’s “code word” – BHO is allowed to skate.
October 23rd, 2008 at 2:06 pm
I actually saw Goldberg in Atlanta last night at Emory. He was discussing his book. One of the college kids there asked him if he was going to feel responsible if/when angry conservatives start engaging in acts of domestic terrorism (operating on the assumption that attacks against “fascists” who run the govt are justified). His response was that the American right had never produced domestic terrorists like the left had – folks started shouting “McVeigh” “Rudolph.” Overall the crowd was pro-Goldberg, about 60 total in attendance. It was a pretty civil night.
I would have liked to ask him how he explains folks on the fringe-right like the Aryan Nations and other white nationalist groups who are openly opposed to liberals/progressives (see D. Duke) and actually associate themselves with the legacy of Nazisim
Anyway, it was an interesting show. Odd observation – Jonah seems likes an OK, even funny guy. He made a few references to smoking last night and getting high before showing up, and I actually had trouble determining if he really was a smoker and fucking with his target audience, or if he’s really really opposed to smoking and thinks that the idea of him getting high is in and of itself a very funny premise. Maybe it’s just a schtick that he employs while on campuses to diffuse the hate. I have a pretty good radar for spotting smokers and non-smokers, but I honestly couldn’t peg him.
October 23rd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Jonah seems likes an OK, even funny guy.
Halfred:
To many Dahmer seemed like an OK, even funny guy. Please do not be fooled by Goldberg or anything that spews from his mouth.
Mr. Merle (18 above):
Oh Man! I could never have said it better. Just amazing that a rag founded in part originally justifying racism should be the “the arbiters of anything” especially given how close they are openly returning of late to those original roots.
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