Sheunemann: McCain Just Doesn’t Want to Meet With Spain’s PM
Wow. I really thought that John McCain’s Spain gaffe was just that, a gaffe, wherein he somehow got confused about what was happening and didn’t understand that the question about holding a meeting with Spanish Prime Minister José Zapatero was a question about Spain and Europe rather than rogue leaders from Latin America. Certainly that strikes me as the fairest reading of the audio. Here’s the relevant portion, in English:
The questioner asked several times about Senator McCain’s willingness to meet Zapatero (and id’d him in the question so there is no doubt Senator McCain knew exactly to whom the question referred). Senator McCain refused to commit to a White House meeting with President Zapatero in this interview.
That’s an insane policy. Recall that under the North Atlantic Treaty, the United States is actually obligated to go to war on behalf of Spanish territorial integrity and vice versa. Also — McCain might want to hire someone who can clarify for his campaign that the head of state in Spain is the “king” and the head of government is the “prime minister.”
81 Responses to “Sheunemann: McCain Just Doesn’t Want to Meet With Spain’s PM”
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September 18th, 2008 at 11:36 am
We could see this coming given the talking points our resident Republican hacks were spouting this morning. I guess they think they are saving face, but this is really nutso–I have gotten used to pointing out that during the Cold War we used to meet with Soviet leaders, but I never thought I would have to point out that during the Cold War we used to meet with NATO leaders too.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:37 am
McCain is obviously senile. Even Sheunemann’s explanation doesn’t make sense, any more than “the fundamentals of the economy” = “working people.”
Just a sad old man who can’t cut it any more.
.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:39 am
In a way this makes sense.
At the time Zapatero was elected, wasn’t it the neocons and far right who decried it saying that Spain had “surrendered” to the terrorists (given that Zapatero had campaigned on getting out of Iraq) and that Spain had “betrayed” us (all the usual pablum). Maybe McCain still views it that way.
They say he’s vindictive and carries grudges forever.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:39 am
By the way, you have to like the line:
“and id’d him in the question so there is no doubt Senator McCain knew exactly to whom the question referred.”
The precise problem is that the interviewer did indeed identify Zapatero, and yet it still seems clear to me that McCain was confused.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Wow, just wow.
In the interview, he kept going back to “I’ll meet with our friends, but not our enemies” - and now it’s clear he considers Spain - a NATO ally, an enemy because of Zapatero’s campaign promises.
This guy is certifiable.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Never back down
It’s the McCain way. And it’s the only possible PR way through this mess.
They didn’t vet her narrative well enough to prevent the Barracuda, in her ruthless self-promotion mode, claiming to have been against the Bridge to Nowhere. But once having made the claim, in the acceptance speech no less, backing down would have been a disaster for their kind of “simple truths”-and-who-cares-if-they’re-not-actually-true narrative building. The best of a bad lot for them was to just keep head down, keep repeating the same simple non-truth, and hope the damage wasn’t too bad, that the media would either never point out the lie, or stop pointing it out before the damage got too bad.
Same dynamics with the Zapatero gaffe. They simply cannot admit that McCain was caught clueless about the leader of a NATO nation. So he meant it, goddammit, and if you say otherwise, you have no respect for what dementia-causing horrors John McCain suffered for his country! If you say otherwise, you support the defeatist line that Zapatero has taken!
September 18th, 2008 at 11:45 am
If it’s such a crazy policy, then why was the radio host asking about it? Honest question here. She asked a straightforward yes or no question: would you meet with Zapatero as president? If the “no” answer is so unexpected and hare-brained, why did she ask the question at all?
September 18th, 2008 at 11:45 am
McCain simply meant that he would not be meeting with any shoemakers. He buys shoes off the rack and is not an elitist!
September 18th, 2008 at 11:46 am
John McCain: Still bitter about the Spanish-American War.
max
['Talk about your sore winners.']
September 18th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Perhaps McCain’s [ostensible] rationale for this would be that Zapatero campaigned against Aznar on a platform of withdrawing Spanish troops from Iraq or Afghanistan (iirc it was the former but I am not certain). And then withdrew them after he was elected, which follwed the 3/11 bombings in Spain that Aznar incorrectly (and perhaps falsely) attributed to ETA and Basque terrorists, when they turned out to have been perpetrated by Moroccan terrorists against Spain’s having troops in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Now someone from the McCain campaign could make a logical argument that this reasoning lies behind McCain’s statement. It would respond to the supposition that McCain is either so ignorant or so senile and losing it that he was not able to respond coherently to the question.
Of course, that would simply provide additional proff that McCain’s foreign policy views are batshit crazy and that he won’t meet with even formal allies if they differ from US policy. It won’t just be constant war, it’ll constant war alone against almost everybody else. Worked so well for Napoleon.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:49 am
I’m not sure that McCain really heard that Zapatero is president of Spain. I think he’s just confused about who he is, and thinks he’s the president of some Latin American country.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:49 am
If the “no” answer is so unexpected and hare-brained, why did she ask the question at all?
It’s a pro-forma question for foreign journalists. It’s a softball where they are supposed to talk about how they look forward to working with X.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Spanish people refer to Zapatero as “president” because his official title is “President of the Cabinet”. In English, of course, he is Prime Minister Zapatero.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:51 am
The Spanish Prime Minister is known, in Spanish, as “El/La Presidente,” despite the fact the he/she’s the head of government and not the head of state. I don’t assume the McCain folks knew this though.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Here I was thinking that after a furious session of Rick Davis pointing at a map of Spain then over to a map of Europe while it slowly began to dawn on John McCain what was going on, they would offer a hurried apology.
Nope, we hate Spain now. McCain’s still pissy they left Iraq.
http://thesebastards.blogspot.com/
September 18th, 2008 at 11:56 am
I can’t believe this is the tack the McCain campaign is taking here. I mean this is a pretty brain-dead response.
Why not just say that the Senator had trouble with the interviewer’s accent and didn’t realize she was talking about Zapatero? Sure, she asked him a few times and tried to clarify, but at least blaming her accent would be plausible given the circumstances.
Wouldn’t that also pretty much diffuse this? I don’t know, I think they fucked up here pretty badly.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Why not just say that the Senator had trouble with the interviewer’s accent and didn’t realize she was talking about Zapatero?
Didn’t Tommy Thompson give a bizzaro answer in one of the early primary debates and blame it on being distracted by needing to use the restroom?
I keep thinking more politicians should use that line.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Ben,
I gather there have been some prior suggestions that Bush has been snubbing Zapatero. So maybe the question was motivated by those suggestions.
And incidentally, if Bush has in fact been refusing to meet with Zapatero, that doesn’t make it any less insane.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Just once, you’d like to see these guys give an honest answer. In many cases, the simple truth would probably be best politically. The cover often gets them in more trouble.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
This is the policy of the Bush Administration. McCain will be continuing it.
More of the Same.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
He’s continuing to punish Spain for its criminal invasion of Portugal in 1580.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Someone should ask McCain if he sees the possibility of going to war with Spain.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
It would’ve been so easy for them to just say he misheard over the telephone connection, and that he would of course meet with the prime minister. Instead, the McCain camp grabs a shovel, starts digging and now has inserted it into its mouth through Randy S.
So Georgia should be immediately a part of NATO and the man won’t even meet with the leader of Spain, a major NATO member and cohort in Latin American relations. Insanity for sure.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
It is often hard to shake our first childhood memories, and for McCain it was “Remember the Maine, Down with Spain”
September 18th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
a.b., that was definitely the comment of the day!
September 18th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
By the way, Ben Smith is reporting that McCain said he WOULD invite Zapatero to the White House back in June.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Wow, they’re letting McCain’s senior moment turn into a whole spurious new narrative about how, in the midst of the meltdown of Wall Street, McCain is more concerned with vigilant defense against the Spanish Threat.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
I think this is pretty clearly an attempt at damage control.
a) It definitely seems to me that McCain was confused by the question. He came armed with talking points about Latin America, he wasn’t prepped to discuss Spain, so he stumbled. It was a gaffe.
b) McCain’s staff decided that the “confused old man forgets where Spain is” meme is more damaging to their candidate than the “McCain is a deranged hawk who won’t talk to our European allies” meme. Anyone in Ohio who cares about our relationship with Western Europe probably isn’t voting for McCain anyway. But perceived senility could hurt him. Badly.
c) Therefore, McCain’s spokespeople do what they do best. Lie.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
If it’s such a crazy policy, then why was the radio host asking about it? Honest question here.
Bush hasn’t invited Zapatero over, because he’s a snitty little grudge-bearer who liked Aznar. When Bush gave him a five-minute courtesy phone call after elections earlier in the year, it was considered significant.
The presumption has been that whoever takes over at the White House isn’t going to bear the same personal grudge towards Spain, regardless of party.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
First time I’ve heard this. The reporter talks fast and has a thick accent, it’s almost completely unintelligible. This isn’t an example of senility or ignorance. The McCain camp’s response is baffling; I guess they’re worried about the appearance of a gaffe even when it’s completely without substance. That makes sense, given the extraordinary cynicism of their campaign tactics.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Besides–and here I refer you to the photo–why would McCain need to meet with Rowan Atkinson anyway?
September 18th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
To be fair, the interviewer referred to him as President Zapatero.
Does this mean that McCain doesn’t intend to invite Spain into his league of democracies?
September 18th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
At first I thought this was a triviality — I (like others) thought McCain didn’t understand the interviewer’s question or even the clarifications (I didn’t find them all that clear). But the campaign’s “save” involving a desire to snub Zapatero is contradicted by McCain’s continuing references to “the hemisphere” “Latin America” and “the region.” Could someone just ask McCain if he knew they were talking about Spain?
September 18th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
From the link:
I agree with the earlier comments that the McCain campaign’s philosophy seems to be to never admit making a mistake, no matter what. That really isn’t a quality I want in a leader. It really scares the hell out of me.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Some of these “prime ministers” are constitutionally called “president of the council of ministers”.
Also, not sure it’s part of the picture here, but some reporting has Zapatero privately very critical of US and Israel - here for example is a fair-and-balanced piece - http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3278919,00.html - so Zapatero might not be on McCain’s invite lists.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
So I guess I need to update my “Countries to Bomb List”… do you think Spain comes before or after Russia? I think before, because in the event of global thermonuclear war with Russia, our ability to bomb Spain might be severely impacted… so we should probably get that out of the way first.
So the question is, how do we kick Spain out of NATO? Or did Bush’s treatment of the Geneva Conventions mean that we no longer have to obey treaties?
September 18th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Executive power in Spain lies with the Council of Ministers (Spanish Consejo de Ministros). It is headed by the President of the Government (Prime Minister) who is nominated by the King, confirmed by a vote of the lower house of parliament and then appointed by the king.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Spain#Executive_power
September 18th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
They’re just trying to push down debate expectations. If McCain makes it through the debates with a heart attack and without drooling, he wins easily at this point.
September 18th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Q: Did Maverick get caught in an embarrassing senior moment, or does he really support such dumb policies that he’d arguably be better off calling “brain fart” and moving on?
A: Yes.
September 18th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
If you listen to the interview, it’s hard not to feel a little sympathetic for him: he clearly cannot understand everything she is saying. When he says something about Latin America, and she responds: “What about Europe?” she is speaking fast and it sounds like “What about you?” His response was “What about me, what?”
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/217792.php
All he had to do, was release a statement that said: “I goofed!” Really, just a tiny bit of self-deprecating candor would have helped him overcome the now majority MSM opinion that he’s a pathological liar. At the very least, it would have kept this a one-day story that only TPM cared about. Now he’s dug a hole, told a huge lie, created a likely internation furor, and given this small gaffe some serious legs. Seriously, not that I need more proof, but this new McCain is like a creepy cross of Nixon, Bush, and Tommy Thompson.
September 18th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
McCain’s old enough that were he wearing a hearing aid nobody would question it, I’m surprised he isn’t constantly plugged into his campaign when doing interviews. I’m sure he will be during the debates, but why not now?
September 18th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
I’m not surprised. McCain’s still got shrapnel in his leg from the assault on San Juan Hill. Old grudges die hard.
September 18th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Wow! I can understand that argument against meeting with people who could be called our enemies (Iran). I disagree with that position, but I understand it.
But is McCain seriously suggesting that he may not meet with an ally?
September 18th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Has anyone told McCain “Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead!”
September 18th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
But the campaign’s “save” involving a desire to snub Zapatero is contradicted by McCain’s continuing references to “the hemisphere” “Latin America” and “the region.”
Clearly, McCain was referring to the Northern hemisphere, where the US, Mexico, and Spain are all located. And what is a hemisphere, if not a “region” on the globe? Also, Spanish is derived from Latin, and if you insert a hyphen, McCain could have easily been referring to “Latin-America” relations, i.e. relations between Latin countries and America.
Can’t we agree that McCain deserves the benefit of the doubt here?
September 18th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
This is the equivalent of Pee Wee Herman’s “I meant to do that.”
But funnier.
And scarier.
September 18th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Just a brief aside: the name of the Prime Minister of Spain is José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, i.e., he should be referred to using his full name (with both his paternal and maternal last names) or as José Luis Rodríguez (dropping his maternal last name). Or, as is the common usage in the Spanish press, just as Zapatero. But certainly not as “José Zapatero”.
September 18th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Of course there was no “gaffe.” Just like how McCain intentionally used that photo of Walter Reed Middle School at the convention.
September 18th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
I see no reason why Rodriguez Zapatero should be considered either an ally or a good man. I loathe his social policies especially in regards to abortion, Islamophilia, and his efforts to break the power of the Spanish church. If Rodriguez Zapatero insists on leading his country into the morass of family breakdown and inevitable dhimmitude, then I see no reason why the president of the United States should feel obliged to encourage or enable his moral idiocy.
Just because Mr. Rodriguez Zapatero happens to be “elected” does not make him either a moral person or a useful ally.
September 18th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Yeah, but Hector, you’re a nutball religious anti-abortion zealot. No one on here cares that you oppose Zapatero.
September 18th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Why is the MSM not talking about it, asking McCain for an explanation? I don’t find this being discussed anywhere else except the blogs.
September 18th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
There goes that pesky “verbiage” again.
September 18th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
El Cid,
It’s ironic that you should use the pseudonym of a Spanish national hero as you proceed to try and undermine the Spanish national essence.
September 18th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
If you want an example of European leader who has fought for the culture of life, look no further than Vladimir Putin and his efforts to restrict abortion in Russia. Europe needs more Putins, fewer Zapateros. I like Putin. He opposes the capitalists, the abortionists and the Islamists all with equal fervor.
September 18th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
He must think she’s talking about the “Zapateros”, i.e. the followers of Emiliano Zapata.
September 18th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Alex,
Zapata was a Mexican and thus pronounced his name with a completely different initial consonant than Zapatero.
September 18th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
No kidding on how McCain and Co. are going to insist on the tough guy explanation because the other possibilities point to what many of us already know (bec he’s rubbing our noses in it every blessed day?) … That the good Senator from Arizona is, my friends, gaga. For real.
As a Brazilian-American, I just want to state that I’m potentially a Brazilan Spaniard and that, in any event, We Are All Mexicans Now. Or possibly Hondurans …
Zapatero must be laughing his ass off. Almodovar too. At this stage of the game, Palin may in reality be better informed on matters having to do with foreign affairs than Sen. McC.
September 18th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
“Also — McCain might want to hire someone who can clarify for his campaign that the head of state in Spain is the ‘king’ and the head of government is the ‘prime minister.’”
Matt, the head of government of Spain is, in English, the “President of the Government.”
“head of government: President of the Government (Prime Minister equivalent) Jose Luis RODRIGUEZ ZAPATERO (since 17 April 2004);”
September 18th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
This is an odd response from the McCain camp. I would have expected them to say something along the lines of:
September 18th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Listen to the clip - he is completely oblivious to who Zapatero is.
September 18th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
I’m waiting to hear “We are all Galaceans now” and about our plans to invade Spain and liberate Basque and Galacia.
Is it fair to posit that while most Americans don’t know much FP stuff, they therefore also don’t vote on it? While amongst those who do, surely the polish is so far off McCain’s vaunted expertise to cause concern? I mean, we’re not meeting with our NATO allies?
September 18th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Keating Five McCain is losing it. It’s very reassuring, however, that he picked a real pro that is ready on Day One: Sarah Palin.
September 18th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
I thought Gov. Palin was building a bridge to Spain?
September 18th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Zapatero surrendered to the fascists of Iraq in 2004. I have the feeling McCain doesn’t admire that kind of cowardice.
Now Iraq is a democracy. When will Zapatero visit Iraq?
September 18th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Has no-one in the Republican camp noticed that the inability of a US President to recall where anywhere is outside the USA, or who he’s talking to (even when in their country) and whether they are supposed to be allies … tends to get up foreigners’ noses and make them less disposed to co-operate with Washington? Or do Republican Presidents and their advisors just not care?
If so, it’s OK with we Europeans. Just get the damn “NATO” weapons out of here, stop embroiling us in trying to bring back the good ole days when the Cold War was simple - Us v Them - and above all don’t try selling us any more sub-prime fiascos!
September 18th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
“Also — McCain might want to hire someone who can clarify for his campaign that the head of state in Spain is the ‘king’ and the head of government is the ‘prime minister.’”
I would never defend McCain here, or try to excuse this gaffe, but you’re obviously overreaching with this line. The interviewer repeatedly referred to Zapatero as “the President of Spain.” I hardly think that McCain was obliged to correct her.
Um, I do think he should probably know that Spain isn’t in South America, though.
September 18th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Hector: My use of El Cid is intentionally ironic. A hired sword, he was no anti-Moor hero. But that’s neither here nor there — my use of the sobriquet, which may (with much debate) in fact be related to the Arabic As-Sayyid (”My lord”), has to do with the poem / song, and not the historical figure.
September 18th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
My theory: McCain thought Zapatero is head of the Zapatistas.
September 18th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
The McCain campaign had three options:
a) Admit he was confused.
b) Admit that he wasn’t paying close attention and had trouble understanding her accent.
c) Bull forward, claim you meant it all, even if this means randomly pissing off a NATO ally for no sane reason.
It’s truly frightening. McCain wasn’t like this last fall–the campaign seems to have worn him out, and that’s not a good sign with 4 years of much more stressful presidency ahead.
September 19th, 2008 at 4:41 am
I have voted for Zapatero in the general elections of 2004 and 2008. Supporters of previous Prime Minister, Aznar, are of course upset at Zapatero’s victories and have tried to exploit, for years, Bush’s cold attitude towards Zapatero after Spanish troops left Irak in 2004 (a promise Zapatero had made during the campaing, prior to the terrorist attacks in Madrid). After Aznar’s meetings with George, they try to portray Zapatero as an international nobody that is dishonoring our country. Understandably, they are now very happy with McCain’s answers.
I do think McCain didn’t know who the interviewer was talking about. Perhaps he did not even know that in Spain we speak Spanish and are good friends of Latin-American countries. But that Spain is across the Ocean, in Europe…
September 19th, 2008 at 8:45 am
Animal,
Er, Zapatero _is_ dishonoring your country. He is doing his best to undermine the Christian national essence of Spain and turn it over to abortionists and Islamists.
What sort of moral idiot says that Spain needs “more sports, less religion”? What sort of moral idiot tries to take down statues of St. James the Moor-Slayer? And what sort of moral idiot tries to expand the right to abortion?
September 19th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
To christian Hector (a pagan name for a christian?)
Zapatero was elected twice by the majority of the Spaniards. The “essence” you mentioned should be the minority essence. In fact, only 20% declares to the IRS to be catholic (not christian. Furthermore if you say “your country” and not “my country” I shold think that you are not a Spaniard. If so, mind your business
September 20th, 2008 at 8:55 am
Hector,
None of your charges is true. First of all, Spain is a country where church anr religion are separate. This is written in our constitution. Nobody is undermining anything. And the Islamists thing is simply absurd.
I do not know what a moral idiot could do (although I can imagine). However Zapatero is not saying/doing any of the absurd things your are charging him with. It is good to be informed about things before saying anything.
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