It’s The Structure, Supid
Robin Givhan mounts a defense of paying disproportionate attention to the outfits of political women:
It is not sexist to have noticed that Sen. Hillary Clinton delivered her convention speech dressed in head-to-toe mango. Only an obstinately unaware person would have ignored this question: Senator, why are you dressed like a tropical fruit? One assumes it was to ensure an eye-catching photo for the history books and to underscore her “sisterhood of the traveling pantsuits” legacy.
There’s some real truth to that and, obviously, if John Kerry had shown up on stage in an orange suit his fashion choices would hardly have been ignored. But to observe that is to overlook the point that, of course, Kerry wouldn’t show up on stage in an orange suit or a red one or a green one or anything other than the standard conservative (in a fashion sense) male “I’m a serious and important person” uniform. A woman in politics could choose to dress consistently in the same kind of drab colors that her male colleagues choose, but that would be noteworthy in its own right. And if she chooses not to do so, then her bold colors become noteworthy. What’s sexist here isn’t noticing a bright orange suit, but the set of differing conventions and expectations about what male and female politicians should do — conventions that all-but-ensure a higher overall level of scrutiny will be given to women’s wardrobes.
56 Responses to “It’s The Structure, Supid”
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September 6th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
But you gotta admit — John Kerry showing up in an all-orange suit would certainly be memorable.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
i don’t know if anyone else saw the picture, but Hillary brought four different coloured pantsuits (red, blue, purple, orange), each of which was auditioned against the backdrop of the convention space, and i’d tend to think the orange one was chosen because of the way it would make its wearer stand out against the background. i don’t understand what makes the colour orange into something that a) is OBVIOUSLY like a fruit and b) is pejorative?
September 6th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Hillary is a good looking woman.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
#1. You’re distorting how things actually work. There aren’t just two choices — wear a ridiculous mango looking suit, or dress in all grey. Most women with jobs that require business attire dress in mostly conservative colors but with a bit of color — say, a dark suit with a red shirt. That’s not dramatically different from how most men dress. No one would comment on normal clothing.
#2. There is attention paid to how men look. Gore’s earth tones. Edwards’s and Romney’s haircuts. I give more examples in this post.
#3. How is anyone seriously hurt by commentary on anyone’s choice of suit color? If this is one of the most important feminist issues right now, then feminism has lost all seriousness.
#4. It’s much better if you don’t misspell “stupid” in your blog post heading.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Reminds me that when Steve Earle got out of jail, he used to joke onstage about writing a song called “I Don’t Look Good in Orange.”
Can we just stipulate that this stuff, along with the laff-trak insanity that is Sarah Palin, should confirm to all thoughtful zeitgeist-watchers just how invisible yet pervasive sexism is in a zillion dimensions, flying in the face of the fact that everybody assumes that we are all hip semioticians who aren’t in any way blinkered as they were back in the era of “Mad Men”–or the ERA, for that matter?
This explains a lot about why we still can’t have a rational conversation about two-career families and all the social rearrangements that it entails. I personally found it actually enraging that Rudy 9iu11iani was able to scream from the podium about how stupid it was that Sarah Palin was being arraigned for, of all things, wanting to be Vice President with five children.
Which reminds me of when Susan Estrich egregiously questioned how Arianna Huffington could possibly run for Governor of California when she had two needy teenage daughters to take care. I mean, that is the kind of stuff for which the acronym WTF was invented. W. T. F!
September 6th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Fresh off the spelling thread, you misspell “stupid”. Can we begin to think you’re just toying with us at this point?
September 6th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Seems that some people don’t know the diff between a misspelling and a typo. Idiots, clearly–
September 6th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
I have a two-word substantive response for this troll above, by the way: Hillary’s “cleavage.”
W. T. F?
September 6th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
What’s with Hillary and her pantsuits? They’re ugly. Come on, you’re a woman, you can get away with wearing something that looks nice. You certainly have the money to wear whatever you want. And we won’t fault you for looking good. And trust me girl, orange really isn’t your color. Men don’t look good in cheap suits, and neither do women. The scary thing is that Hillary probably paid a lot to have a pantsuit that looks that bad. Pay someone to help you, Hillary.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Yawn. Matt’s girlfriend must be on a rampage if he’s searching for things to be offended by as a sensitive man again.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Nobody ask Kerry about the suit. We’ll be here all night.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
joez Law of Teh Internetz: When you insult someone’s intelligence in an on-line forum, you will make a spelling error that makes you look like an idiot.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Wow–QED. Whatta buncha wankers.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Matt’s incomplete theorizing about the role of “conventions and expectations” in women’s clothing choices aside, I originally took Clinton’s bright orange outfit to be one last playful dig at the Obama campaign, but now I think the idea was just to go out boldly, rather than tamed or defeated, and choose a color that stood best against the blue background.
By the way, men’s standard color choices aren’t drab. They are dark, which is different.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Perhaps the conventions that cause men to wear drab boring suits are a consequence of men being in power. Maybe as Women gain political and economic power they will begin to have very strict clothing conventions like men. After all the main reason men all wear suits in formal situations is because it allows us to not be criticized for our clothes.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
“What’s sexist here isn’t noticing a bright orange suit, but the set of differing conventions and expectations about what male and female politicians should do — conventions that all-but-ensure a higher overall level of scrutiny will be given to women’s wardrobes.”
I think there are some legitimate gray areas that are similar to those in racism. Women all have the same experience of being a woman and therefore have a different set of expectations for women than a man would. If a man had those same set of expectations, he would be considered sexist.
For example, there’s a contingent of women – mostly those with small children – who are almost offended Sarah Palin is running with 5 children – including one pregnant and one special needs. Are they sexist? Of course, if a man made the same criticism he would immediately be called sexist even if he legitimately valued the mother’s role more?
Same thing with a wardrobe. Women have a better understanding about women’s clothing than men do and so are likely to be more critical of a woman because of how she dresses. You notice you never see Hillary in a skirt? Besides David Letterman and was it Krugman sarcastically, I don’t notice men commenting on it. But, again there is a contingent of women who wonder why not a skirt sometime. Does that make them sexist? If a man asked that, he’d be accused of being sexist.
I guess men can sometimes judge a woman by wardrobe. I was a little uncomfortable seeing Cindy McCain so extravagantly dressed, and thought more highly of Laura Bush for her understatement at the RNC. For me, i just thought the extravagance was in poor taste. We are in a recession.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
For example, there’s a contingent of women – mostly those with small children – who are almost offended Sarah Palin is running with 5 children – including one pregnant and one special needs. Are they sexist?
yes. thanks for asking.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
This seems an appropriate analogy:
Vesper Lynd: What else can you surmise, Mr. Bond?
James Bond: About you, Miss Lynd? Well, your beauty’s a problem. You worry you won’t be taken seriously.
Vesper Lynd: Which one can say of any attractive woman with half a brain.
James Bond: True. But this one overcompensates by wearing slightly masculine clothing. Being more aggressive than her female colleagues. Which gives her a somewhat *prickly* demeanor, and ironically enough, makes it less likely for her to be accepted and promoted by her male superiors, who mistake her insecurities for arrogance. Now, I’d have normally gone with “only child,” but by the way you ignored the quip about your parents… I’m going to have to go with “orphan.”
September 7th, 2008 at 12:24 am
My wife said that her outfit meant, “Orange you glad I didn’t take the fight to the convention?”
September 7th, 2008 at 12:53 am
Hey, supid,
I don’t mind Matt’s typos as much as I mind the fact that he refuses to correct them, no matter how blatant they are. It kind of seems like his way of saying FU to all of us who complain about his typos. Seems a little ‘Quod scripsi, scripsi’ to me.
September 7th, 2008 at 1:15 am
The orange worked well with the blue background. They’re complementary colors.
September 7th, 2008 at 1:25 am
Most of what Jac said in #4, I think. I’ve seen plenty of women in the real world in business attire, and I can’t really recall any of them wearing pastel-colored pantsuits. The fact that Hillary Clinton seems to dress in a manner that is unlikely anybody you ever see in the real world is certainly going to get noticed.
Nancy Pelosi seems to generally wear more normal looking clothes, for instance, and I haven’t generally seen too much comment on her choice of attire. Palin’s clothing also does not seem to have attracted much notice.
So, I don’t know, Clinton’s pantsuits seem kind of out of the ordinary, and, as such, worth remarking one.
September 7th, 2008 at 2:16 am
It’s also more interesting.
Male politicians have really one option– a suit and tie. The former will be navy, charcoal or black, and the latter will probably be red or blue. There’s nothing to talk about, it’s dull. If they deviate from this, they get noticed– remember the “Obama Look” articles, waaay earlier in the campaign, when Obama ditched the suitcoat and tie (while retaining the dress shirt and slacks). There were even comparisons to Ahmadinejad, who evinced the same look.
Women’s professional attire is more varied. It’s not just that the conventions require scrutiny of womens’ wardrobes, but they permit greater variance within the realm of womens’ professional-wear. They have options that men do not have (or rather, cannot exercise and be taken at all seriously). When women exercise these options, there’s something to write about.
September 7th, 2008 at 2:22 am
First of all, the Mango P-L-A-Y played, sister. Let’s just get that straight. That background tester did his job, honey.
Second, while Matt’s point that it IS the structure is right on point and his choice of example and explication are BRILLIANT, it remains true that what is undeniably a structure of difference is not necessarily (though I am not claiming it is not) a structure of inequality. It could be argued that while the scrutiny of appearance of women is likely unfair or at least completely different from that of men, it isn’t necessarily the case that the very different circumstances facing men and women, at least in politics, don’t have compensating and perhaps balancing advantages and disadvantages. This would have to be argued out and would differ almost infinitesimally based on context, and it could certainly be the case that the situation is just unequivocally more challenging for women. But the simple fact that we perceive men and women in politics differently doesn’t in itself imply that the playing field is uniformly tilted against women.
On the other hand, as the case of Sarah Palin, repeated research studies, and millions of people’s everyday experiences show, it is quite clear that the way we see conventionally attractive people as contrasted with how we see the conventionally less attractive among is one of those unequivocal –and purely factual as opposed to structural — situations where an uneven playing field is clear — and that is the case across the population no matter what demographic slicing you might be interested in.
September 7th, 2008 at 2:40 am
I wouldn’t mind seeing Bush or Cheney or Yoo or half of the 44 whitehouse in orange suits. We could give them all matching bracelets too.
September 7th, 2008 at 2:45 am
I notice it, but only because I think something weird was going on with that suit. In a time when we Democrats are trying to get the public to accept new things (women and minority Presidents) the loud color was not a re-assuring signal (remember, this was before the Palin pick). It’s like a more subdued version of a politician showing up on stage at the convention with hippy long hair and sunglasses. Think you’d catch Palin wearing a bright orange suit? Not on your life.
It’s not even a tasteful version of a bright orange suit, either– it looks like it doesn’t fit right. Check out the sleeves– they’re too long (left arm in the photo– the sleeve is covering half her hand, like she’s an ancient Chinese emperor). Hillary’s clothes in general in the past year or so have been a lot more flattering than this truly odd suit.
I’m not even a “clothes” person, I just have good taste and a bit of an eye for the aesthetic, and even I can see that this suit is not the best choice for the convention.
September 7th, 2008 at 4:59 am
Isn’t her outfit closer to papaya than mango?
September 7th, 2008 at 6:02 am
The combination of this ultra-lame pant-suit and the garish milkshake colour is hilariously bad. If she wanted to stand out, why not go all the way – now that would have been a statement.
It’s true that women have more choices and thus can make more errors than men, but I see tons of professional women every day and while their sense of style varies, I’ve never seen anything as bad as what HRC is wearing her. All of them manage to look like normal people, some look really cool even – it’s not that difficult really.
As for sexism, Helmut Kohl, not much of a looker in general, was criticized for years and years in a sometimes downright vicious manner for his overall appearance including the cut of his suit, which tended to bulge terribly in the shoulder area. Poking a little harmless fun at Hillary’s hilarious fashion choices is nothing against that.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:11 am
How about Cindy’s lime green outfit on the last evening? Also her new look with the hair down? I thought Republicans placed great store on a candidate’s hair and clothing. Is Cindy unsure of who she is, what with the make-over?
September 7th, 2008 at 9:36 am
I think it’s something that Hillary never seemed to wear hideously colored pantsuits before 2008. Mrs. Thatcher certainly never dressed like a citrus–and Pelosi and Snowe certainly manage to be effective, respected politicians without looking bad. Basic science — pale and heavier women should try to wear darker colors for contrast and slimming purposes. As a pale, Kucinich-sized man, I know not to wear, for instance, lightly colored three-button suits, so I don’t see how it’s sexist to point out that for each person, some looks yes, some looks no. Even Clinton seemed to understand this before running for president on the platform of looking like an easter egg.
Cindy McCain’s hair is a disaster. She spends $280K on earrings but skrimps on her colorist?
September 7th, 2008 at 9:47 am
The yellow outfit that Cindy McCain was wearing the previous night made her look like a banana.
September 7th, 2008 at 10:46 am
novakant: that’s because you’ve never paid attention to what Liddy Dole is wearing. I assure you that she makes the most bizarre color choices of any female senator.
September 7th, 2008 at 11:36 am
As a woman I don’t find the outfit notice demeaning. For one thing, sometimes women like an outfit and want to find something like it. and I feel with the variety that women can wear gives more to description then does, black suit, white shirt, blue or red tie. Frankly, there is only so many ways to write the same outfit worn by most men.
Descriptive sentences add to a story but, men are usually dressed in the same old boring while women are not.
No one can take away the incredible achievements by Pelosi, or her intelligence or abilities because someone writes a description of what outfit she had on and frankly she wears some very smashing things.
September 7th, 2008 at 11:41 am
As far as what Cindy McCain’s been wearing, I didn’t see any lime green or yellow outfits on her recently (only more normal ones) but I’ve got to say “Who fucking cares?” as opposed to what one of the candidates wears.
I don’t think there has even been a single new story / meme that has focused on Cindy, besides passing mentions that she’s an heiress and that McCain got a lot of his money from marrying her. She’s in th background, and it looks like they’re more or less keeping her there.
September 7th, 2008 at 11:53 am
“The orange worked well with the blue background. They’re complementary colors.”
This is true. But orange doesn’t work as well with Hillary’s hair and eyes. She looks good in blue. Why not change the background instead? We have that kind of technology.
September 7th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
By the way, were these Cindy McCain appearances in yellow and lime green (those aren’t the kind of colors she usually wears) before or after the Democratic convention? Before or after people started complaining about what Hillary wore there? What’s that you say– after? Hmm… The game is afoot.
September 7th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
“The orange worked well with the blue background. They’re complementary colors.”
Wha–? Maybe if you’re trying to throw up. That sounds like the “hanging out with a Japanese biker gang” look to me.
September 7th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
That sounds like the “hanging out with a Japanese biker gang” look to me.
Well, there are times she has wanted to Kill Bill.
September 7th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!
!!HILLMENTUM™!!!?
September 7th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
I loved that mango pantsuit. Does anyone know who the designer was? If I could find it, I’d buy it for myself. (I’m a lawyer; I usually wear bold colors in order to stand out from the herd of meek corporate types who wear navy blue, gray and black. I see no point in blending into the background.)
September 7th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Absolutely, but to refocus that thought a little, women’s attire and appearance are remarked upon because women have much broader freedom in their sartorial choices than men. If women want to give up that freedom and settle for the very narrow choices men have, then I suspect people would stop commenting on their clothes. But for now, women’s choices of clothing do in fact reflect their personality, values, and the image they want to project. Men’s formal and business attire has evolved precisely to iron out (so to speak) individuality and freedom.
Clinton wore Mango simply because she can.
September 7th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
HRC wrote the papaya pantsuit BECAUSE it appeals to her target audience; the fact that younger men who use the internets don’t find it an attractive outfit is, imo, simply a sign that it’s a good choice. the pantsuit is a “fun” color; it makes her look hippy (that is, pear-shaped)–these are humanizing qualities. she’s not playing the hot older woman game like Pelosi; and since the vast majority of older American women don’t look like Pelosi, this is a good choice.
September 8th, 2008 at 3:51 am
Matt writes:
“What’s sexist here isn’t noticing a bright orange suit, but the set of differing conventions and expectations about what male and female politicians should do — conventions that all-but-ensure a higher overall level of scrutiny will be given to women’s wardrobes.”
Jeez, Matt, don’t be such a dweeb on feminist talking points. A moment’s thought would tell you that barely any straight males cared (or even noticed) what Hillary Clinton wore. The people who care about what women politicians wear are women and gay men.
Matt, what every young man needs to realize before it gets too late for him is that girls find boys who scoff at feminist ideology sexier than boys who take feminist “thinking” seriously.
September 8th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Blue background, orange suit. Complementary colors. Check out a beginning art class sometime.
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