Sep 4th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Hockey
Okay, I flipped from football — America’s favorite sport — over to the politics thing and once again I’m hearing about all-American values and, um, hockey. We understand that real Americans don’t play, watch, or think about hockey ever, right? Baseball, football, basketball, NASCAR we’ve got a lot of popular sports here in the United States. And then there’s this odd Russo-Canadian game that can’t even get on ESPN.
Back to football for me.
83 Responses to “Hockey”
Register
RSSLogin
Advertisement
Visit Our Affiliated Sites
Books By Matthew Yglesias
Topic CloudView topics sorted by popularity
Abortion
Afghanistan
Basketball
Blanche Lincoln
Budget
China
climate
Congress
Crime
DC
Demographics
Economics
Economy
Energy
EU
Finance
Gender
Health Care
History
Immigration
Inequality
International Law
International Relations
Iran
Israel
Labor Markets
Media
Monetary Policy
National Security
NATO
NBA
Palestine
Political Reform
Public Health
Public Opinion
Race
Regulation
Russia
Sarah Palin
Sports
Stimulus
taxes
Technology
Trade
transportation
Featured
Subscribe to the Progress Report
Contact Matthew Yglesias
Use this form to contact blog author Matthew Yglesias.
ArchivesBlog RollAbout Matt YglesiasContact Me
Donate
September 4th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
For shame, Matt. For all the hoops and Wizards blogging, if you don’t catch a few Caps games, you are missing out on the best hockey player I’ve ever seen live.
September 4th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
We understand that real Americans don’t play, watch, or think about hockey ever, right?
What are you talking about? John Kerry played hockey.
September 4th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Sarah Palin has been to more colleges than Larry Brown.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
I thought it was impossible to ruin Chuck Berry, but I was wrong.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Hockey is the greatest sport in the world. It’s a shame that you, even though you live in DC, appear incapable of appreciating the unbelievable skill and excitement Alexander Ovechkin displays on a nightly basis.
Hockey’s got everything: speed, grit, hitting, pretty plays, and yes, the occasional fight. No other sport even comes close.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Hockey mom is the new soccer mom.
You know what the difference is? Hockey players who get hit in the groin pummel the guy responsible. Soccer players collapse like they’ve been shot.
…and you really are missing out if you don’t get out to see Ovechkin play.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
McCain = Zelig?
His Bio sounds like the movie zelig.
hmmm
September 4th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Matt apparently has never been to Pittsburgh, where (speaking very crudely) hockey is the favorite sport of the young, football of the old, and where basketball doesn’t exist.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Hockey? This was a question I keep asking — Barack has basketball, a sport that appeals to virtually everyone — Palin has hockey, a sport that, er, doesn’t. I guess the Republicans have really given up on reaching out to minority communities?
September 4th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Matt: I think hockey is coming back in the US, at least in some of the cities (Pittsburgh, Philly, and so forth).
September 4th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Yeah, this is pretty dumb. While Hockey is definitely 4 out of the 4 majors, it is a very big deal in a large part of the country, including here in Philadelphia.
In fact, it is easily the toughest sport and most international. And Versus does hockey proud – you should try it sometime.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Can’t speak for Alaska, but up here in Hockeyland (Canada) Obama polls off the charts.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
It is funny to see the Republicans with their base in the South talking about the greatness of Hockey. The heart of Hockey in this ocuntry is very blue Massachusetts and Minnesota. Although Dallas does now have a team.
It certainly used to be that hockey/Nascar was a good marker of the blue/red divide. But politics aside, hockey remains the best sport to watch live.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Two games tonite, baby! Ball Here, Ball Now!
September 4th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Hockey is popular in some of the cities that host teams and in some northern areas. For the rest of the country, no one really cares.
This is opposed to football and baseball, which are popular all over the US.
Basketball is probably in between.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Yglesias really has done a wonderful job covering the RNC.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Hockey is popular in some of the cities that host teams and in some northern areas. For the rest of the country, no one really cares.
Gretzky made it popular in L.A. for about fifteen minutes, just a Beckham more recently made soccer popular for about five minutes.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Hockey kinda rules in Minnesota,my kid played from age 5 through High school.That stupid old hockey mom joke Sarah Palin told has been told ad nauseum,gues she thought she was being pretty cute and funny.Well,not so much,I thought she sounded like a Dork.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Kerry played Hockey – so the media thought it was French or (at best) Canadian.
Palin is different – Hockey is now ‘Murica.
USA! USA!
September 4th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
It is true that hockey is most popular in liberal areas of the country.
But what every is missing is that ITS A VERY BLUE COLLAR SPORT. I’d be willing to bet that hockey fans fall into the Reagen Democrat camp.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
RUSSO-Canadian?
That, sir, is an outrage.
But it is another feather in Palin’s foreign policy cap.
September 4th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
thehova, you will never meet a greater champion of pure hockey than me. I knew Eddie Shore! (wonder if anyone will get that)
But seriously, I’m hardly blue-collar. Hockey’s just an awesome sport.
September 4th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
College Hockey is HUGE in such clear cut Red States as: Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont.
Surely Matt remembers the Bean Pot… though given Harvard’s record, he’d most likely want to forget.
Hockey is totally *Elite* here, and it’s so hard to concieve of it as a “common man” sport… it’s for the uber private schools and families with lots of cash.
Is this a different thing in the Midwest or Alaska? Is hockey so commonplace that you don’t have to send your kid to camps and academies with lots of expensive equipment?
September 4th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Yeah, she’s a hockey mom, with a hockey-playing future son in law, married to a separatist.
Vive le Quebec libre, eh?
September 4th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Detroit is Hockeytown and has a proud labor history. Perhaps you’ve heard of it?
September 4th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Stop being a candyass.
Besides, frankly you don’t look like you’ve played sports other than mini golf.
September 5th, 2008 at 12:15 am
I’m just a classical liberal, mourning the loss of America’s idealism. How anyone gets into football on anything more than an adrenal level is beyond me.
September 5th, 2008 at 12:29 am
For somebody who strives to keep an open mind regarding politics you seem to approach hockey with a predetermined conclusion. Hockey has almost everything you find in the other “big” sports with a few notable differences. It’s faster, there much fewer stoppages and teams don’t get 35 timeouts per half. Sit down this winter, crack open a beer and watch a game or two. If you don’t go in w/ the mindset the game is odd, I can almost guarantee you that you’ll enjoy it. Don’t watch a devils game… try Pittsburgh vs Washington.
September 5th, 2008 at 12:36 am
We also play a *ton* of soccer, and have a pretty good league going that averages over 15,000 at its matches. NBA arenas, recall, typically seat about 18 to 20,000 — though, of course, they do play about twice as many home games (then again, not that many teams necessarily sell out: the Hornets were struggling to get 10,000 at their games much of this past season).
September 5th, 2008 at 1:17 am
Aren’t most hockey players furriners?
September 5th, 2008 at 1:25 am
Hockey players are wimps. This may sound strange, but consider this.
A hockey fight, which granted happens more often than other sports, is a one on one slugfest.
You’ll never see this in baseball. Not because baseball players are afraid to fight, but because if you are fighting one, you are fighting the whole team. A baseball argument is either civil, or a bench clearing brawl.
September 5th, 2008 at 1:37 am
To take this jokingly seriously, this kind of delineation of the concept “American” has no place in a moral approach to politics. As we say, taking for granted (as we do) that all Americans approach politics morally, this slicing and dicing of sports, activities, hobbies, etc. into American and not American, has no place in American politics.
I played hockey until the age of 14, and let me tell ya, my mom didn’t think to put on lipstick before driving me to a 6 AM practice–nor for that matter did she appreciate being compared to a dog. I am American, and I played hockey. Case in point.
But I’m hardly the exemplar of the normal American, considering for instance that I’m expatriated most of the year. And hockey, as I experienced it, was a distinctly preppy sport. Of course, hockey is unavoidably associated with Canada, and hockey players I knew were typically the most hick-like of privileged preps. This hick/elite (hockey players were BMOCs at my school) paradox helps get to the bottom of this vital issue. Hockey is an expensive sport, with the pads and all. It’s also a bit esoteric; skating, for one, is hardly so natural as running, which is how one moves in most major American sports. This makes it ideal for people with some extra pocket money to spend on their children’s sports that live in northern climes. Playing hockey might be a pretty good sign that you’re out of touch with the economic challenges of the immediately economically challenged. But it does signal that you like watching people get decked and are into amateur sports. American values, I’d say.
September 5th, 2008 at 1:47 am
A hockey fight, which granted happens more often than other sports, is a one on one slugfest.
No no, there are bench-clearing brawls in hockey too. That’s when you see the goalies attacking each other. Little known fact: it’s why YouTube was invented.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:02 am
Actually, we haven’t had a bench clearing brawl since the mid-80’s…the NHL started imposing severe penalties and suspensions to stop them. You’ll still see the odd 5v5 brawl every couple of years where everyone on the ice is paired off, goalies included, which is always entertaining.
And as for hockey players being wimps….I’m nearly speechless at that allegation. The pain threshold these guys have is unbelievable. Think about it, if an athlete suffers a broken nose, or looses some teeth in Basketball or Baseball, odds are you won’t see them finish the game, and they may be out for the next couple games as well. In hockey, they might miss a shift or two, while the trainer bends their nose back into shape allowing them to breathe freely again.
Here’s Ryan Malone from last season’s Stanley Cup Finals taking a slapshot to the face, breaking his nose (again). He only missed a shift: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGhUbYQKieg
Also take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3vbtZeMnWc
September 5th, 2008 at 3:57 am
hockey players were BMOCs at my school
See, at my school, among the white kids the water polo players were the BMOCs, and amongst the black kids the football and basketball players were. Well, it helps that one of the football players is now a three-time Super Bowl champion.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:08 am
Dark origins of Hockey Dad/Mom jokes
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/01/25/hockey.death.verdict/index.html
September 5th, 2008 at 6:55 am
While the vast majority of NHL teams are in the US, only about 20 percent of the players are from the US. Just over 50 percent are Canadians, and the rest are pretty much all Europeans–with the Czech Republic being the leading country of origin (so, I guess that makes it Czecho-Canadian).
The first (and only?–not sure) native-born Alaskan to play in the NHL is Scott Gomez. Btw, Scott’s dad, the son of illegal Mexican immigrants, was born in California
September 5th, 2008 at 8:04 am
Geoff in #21 is right! Hockey was invented in Canada based upon the rules of lacrosse — and my inner Cliff Clevin is desperately wanting me to go into a long explanation of the origins of lacrosse but oh, just look it up.
I don’t know about other places but in Minnesota hockey for kids has become the province of more upscale families, due to the cost of equipment and ice time.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:21 am
The Al Gore character in Love Story was a hockey player . . .
September 5th, 2008 at 9:25 am
“I knew Eddie Shore!”
T’hell with Eddie Shore. It’s time to tape on the foil.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:25 am
First of all, soccer players are a bunch of diving wusses. Secondly, if you live in D.C., you owe it to yourself to get to Verizon Center and see one of the greatest athletes around play before you knock it. I grew up in the South (the land of football and baseball) and I can tell you that the NHL is experiencing phenomenal growth. We love hockey and we vote!
September 5th, 2008 at 10:12 am
There are a ton of great Russian players, and I agree with the recommendation to go catch Alex Ovechkin live. But the game is not Russo-Canadian. It’s Canadian. Russian hockey began only in the 1960s, and became genuinely popular only in the 1980s.
For decades, international competition was dominated by the Canadians, and the NHL had almost no non-Canadian players. That changed in the 1980s and 1990s, and now it’s played at the highest levels by players from Canada, Sweden (six players on the Stanley Cup champion Detroit Red Wings), Finland, Russia, Czech Republic, the U.S., Slovakia, and a smattering of other countries. Sweden, Finland, Russia, and the Czech Republic have high-quality professional leagues.
Southeast Michigan (greater Detroit) might be the only U.S. community where hockey is so deeply popular that it’s a working-class as well as preppy sport, despite the expense of ice time and equipment. But even there economic problems may erode the participation rate. Arenas are closing as they age. The flooded-and-frozen baseball fields that provided free ice on which children perfected their skating are gone.
My brother-in-law’s an NHL GM and the product of Michigan hockey. He’d never agree out loud, but it looks to me as if the sport’s in for a retrenchment in the next ten years.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:21 am
hockey > basketball
September 5th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Hockey players are wimps.
Clearly you haven’t seen this. After getting stitched up Malone finished the game.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Why isn’t Palin being labelled as “foreign”?
She’s as Canadian as maple fudge moose cake. I mean, that accent!
“18 million crAcks”!
She sounds more Canadian than I do and I’m more Canadian than a beaver-skin tocque!
Show us that birth certificate!!
Hockey is an amazing sport by the way. And hockey moms= heroes. Hockey dads will punch your kid in the face.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Dude, I like your writing and all, but don’t start bashing hockey, ok? Just don’t.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Whoever said that hockey is a sport for rich people got it. Equipment and ice time are both very expensive. Also, while there are a lot of foreigners in the NHL (which of course is badly misnamed given that the Greatest Franchise in the History of the NHL plays in Montreal), there are very few black people.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:41 am
I’m going to have to disagree with all the hockey boosters here. Hockey could be a great sport. Instead, it is an absolute disgrace to the sporting world. The level of unnecessary violence in hockey is truly astonishing. It has literally (and not in the Biden sense) lowered my opinion of Canadians that they play this sport with the culture that exists in the NHL and Canadian leagues. If this sport were played by primarily black Americans, we would be holding congressional hearings on the shocking brutality of the sport. There would be so much negative publicity that Obama would not have won the Democratic nomination. I am not kidding about this. The sport and culture fundamentally reinforces the notion that violent retaliation after the fact and outside of the scope of the play of the sport is appropriate and should be rewarded (which it literally is, in the NHL, with so called ‘enforcers’ earning their pay check by beating people up in fights and with illegal retaliatory hits). Fact is, I would never let my kids play hockey with the fear would develop the kinds of attitudes towards violence and sportsmanship that are prevalent in hockey.
So you can talk about how great hockey could be. You can talk about how great and awesome a few of the players in the NHL are. But don’t tell me that this sporting culture is worth participating in, or that the NHL is anything other than a disgrace.
September 5th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
mpowell
Have you ever even watched a hockey game? Your post sounds like an uninformed and melodramatic tirade against all the negative hockey stereotypes. Honestly, there’s far more violence in football than hockey.
September 5th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Mike T, you’re missing the whole point. I am very well informed on the levels of violence in both sports. You are much more likely to get hurt in football b/c the nature of the sport is more violent. But there is very little unnecessary violence in football b/c the league has cracked down on it. Some would even say appropriate violence has been removed. For example: you can’t touch the punter, you have to be very careful about hitting the QB after he releases the football and after he goes down, you can’t tackle people from behind in certain ways and you can’t hit WR in certain ways when they’re catching the football. It’s not the violence per se that’s the problem. It’s the culture in hockey that it’s okay to be violent in ways that are completely unrelated to the play of the game. In hockey, it’s okay to fight. The refs don’t even bother to break it up. In the MLB, NFL or NBA the kinds of fights you see regularly in hockey result in multi game suspensions. Players who get involved in multiple fights get suspended for entire seasons. The standard is totally different and the result in hockey is a pathetic culture of retaliatory violence.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
mpowell,
Let your kids play hockey. It’s good exercise.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
50: So is soccer and it doesn’t encourage fighting.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Everytime I get directed here I see another reason not to read Yglesias. What the Dalton School didn’t allow you to play hockey?
And mpowell— After reading the first part of your diatribe, nobody would be surprised that you wouldn’t let your kids play hockey…
September 5th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
mpowell– not only is it apparent that you know nothing about hockey, you know nothing about football either.
Did you ever play football at any level above flag?
September 5th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
mpowell–
People like you are the reason that the great sport of Soccer is ridiculed in America. You put your kids in it because you’re soft.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Unbelievable, Yglesias bans me for calling someone Soft?
You insult hockey players, fans, coaches, and parents freely, but can’t take anything back yourself?
What a hypocrite. I’m sure you’ll delete this post as well.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Wow, I’m mysteriously able to get back on within a minute of letting people know I was banned. You don’t have to fret, I won’t be hanging around.
You need a thicker skin.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Hockey lib: It’s like you’re making my point for me just by accusing me of being soft. What kind of criticism is that to offer someone who plays soccer? Running wind sprints for 90 minutes is what makes someone soft, huh?
Anyone who wants to challenge my post, let’s see some actual facts. What is the penalty for getting into a fight in hockey? Minor/Major infraction? It’s amazing that you can pull off your gloves and punch someone without even getting thrown out of the game. Then ask yourself, have you ever even seen a fight in the NFL? Do you realize players get suspended for brief retaliatory actions? I can’t even imagine what would happen if they tried to throw down like they do in hockey. Do you know what happens in the NBA if you get in a fight or step across the baseline if a fight occurs?
And if you want to call me soft for saying it’s disgraceful for players to fight one another, please do so. You’re only making my point. The hockey culture’s idea of sportsmanship is violent retaliation outside the flow of the game. Anyone want to actually refute that idea?
September 5th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
mpowell, so you don’t like the fighting, fine. The reality is fights don’t happen nearly as frequently as they used to. And the last bench-clearing brawl in the NHL was in the mid-80’s.
Yes, every couple of years, there’s a good 6v6 brawl with every player on the ice paired up with someone else, goalies included, but those are few and far between.
But fighting actually serves a purpose. If you don’t have it, things could get out of hand. If a perceived cheap shot is missed by the refs, the response with no fighting allowed will no doubt be a retaliatory cheap shot. And with guys flying around at 20-30 miles per hour carry sticks in their hands, somebody’s going to get seriously injured. Fighting, despite all the hype, is a pretty safe way of settling differences without anybody getting seriously injured. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard it said by players, that they’d rather risk being punched in the face with a chance to defend themselves, than get carved up with a stick and risk losing an eye.
Think about football, if a guy is chop-blocked, is it better that he responds by performing his own potentially career-ending chop-block, or would it be safer to just have a go at it for a minute or so where there’s little risk of serious injuries from resulting and the same message is sent?
And in hockey there’s unspoken rules regarding fighting as well as fighting etiquette, and mismatches are rare.
September 5th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
No, being afraid to have your kids play hockey (and my bet football) is what makes you soft. There isn’t any more fighting in American Youth Hockey than there is in Basketball, Football, or any other sport.
*
Your ‘question’ is pointless, but–
The penalty for mutually fighting someone in the NHL is a 5 minute major. The penalty for instigating is an additional 2 minutes, and a (almost always a game) misconduct.
In the NCAA, fighting is an automatic Game Misconduct, and a 1 game suspension.
You say things like fighting is a “violent retaliation outside the flow of the game” like you know what the ‘flow of the game’ is about! You don’t!
September 5th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
I can’t even imagine what would happen if they tried to throw down like they do in hockey. Do you know what happens in the NBA if you get in a fight or step across the baseline if a fight occurs?
In addition to what Joe says above (which is basically right), I think you are missing another point: because it is difficult to get traction, fighting on skates isn’t actually that dangerous. Most guys can bloody each others lips or eyes, and in a rare case, someone will hurt their hand. It’s why hockey fights look a little goofy — players can really only generate any force from their arms, and little if any from their legs and torso as you do when you throw an actual punch.
This is why you see refs step in the moment someone is on the ice or off their feet – because, at that point, someone could actually get more than a black eye. And Joe is right – playing hockey is actually more dangerous than the extracurricular fighting.
This is a direct contrast to basketball, where Kermit Washington nearly killed Rudy Tomjanovich with a single punch. (This sounds hyperbolic, but is not). The equivalent in hockey, the dirty stick swing (a la McSorley), is treated in much the same way as punches are in b-ball, with half and full season suspensions.
It’s ok if you want to rail on fighting as a matter of manners/sportsmanship. But there is no real equivalence between two people swinging at each other on skates, and two people throwing haymakers on a basketball court, in terms of danger, so it doesn’t particularly surprise me that they should be punished quite differently.
September 5th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
New Englanders, Minnesotans, Dakotans and Alaskans would beg to disagree. But that’s about the sum of it.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Well, an argument that fighting on skates is fundamentally less dangerous is an interesting argument, I suppose, even if it sounds a little shaky. My response would be that in other sports players have been pushed further and further in the direction of: Don’t respond, play the game, your opportunity for revenge comes in the form of winning the game. That’s my definition of sportsmanship. Obviously it’s better to throw a few punches than assault someone with your stick at high speed, but I still think that the NHL is well behind other professional sports in expecting that players actually restrain themselves from physically assaulting their opponents when they get angry. Pitchers intentionally hitting players in baseball is the only exception and it’s also a disgrace. Suffice it to say, the image of players fighting each other certainly does little to help the NHL’s popularity and I also maintain that if the players involved were black, it would be even worse. That’s why the NBA is regulated to the point where if you even temporarily take a step forward when you’re on the bench in an NBA game and there is an on court altercation (not even fight, mind you), it is an automatic game suspension. I certainly don’t think the skating/non skating circumstance justifies that kind of difference.
Cheap hits in hockey are another matter, of course. I don’t have to know much about hockey to know that fighting is entirely independent from the actual play of the game. But I don’t follow hockey enough to know how to properly characterize cheap hits. In football, a cheap hit might be like blindsiding the QB when he is not involved in the play, but before the play is over. I know that players check other players just to hurt them, which I think is bad for the sport, but I also realize that it might negatively effect the legitimate play of the sport to try and eliminate ‘cheap hits’. Never-the-less, I can’t help but wonder if their prevalence is related to the idea in hockey that ‘it’s okay to fight (theoretically within limits)’.
Of course, calling me out for being soft b/c I wouldn’t want to encourage my kids to participate in a sporting culture where fighting was tacitly permitted, speaks for itself.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Not sure what that means, but there have been/are a few black players in the game, and some do fight. Peter Worrell (a few years back), Georges Laraque, Donald Brashear, Ray Emery, are/were renown fighters. Hell, even Jarome Iginla fights, and he’s one of the top players in the NHL (led the league in goals not too long ago). Fighting is just a necessary part of the game.
The NHL could take it out of the game if it really wanted to, but then you gotta worry about how players would retaliate when a perceived cheap shot goes uncalled.
And while it may be unclear what’s a cheap shot to the uninitiated, those that have played the game or been fans for a while know what they are (hitting from behind, hitting high with gloves or elbows targeting the head, knee-on-knee collusions, running the goalie, etc.), and when any of the above are done to star players, there’s a need for teammates to step up and make it clear that that won’t be tolerated.
There’s a reason Gretzky had Semenko, and later McSorley, at his side.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
I don’t have to know much about hockey to know that fighting is entirely independent from the actual play of the game.
I won’t harp, but I think you fundamentally misunderstand how and why most fights happen in hockey. Sure, there are a few tough guys that fight just to do it, but most fights actually do come from the play of the game.
I don’t think the really ugly stuff happens any more in hockey than any other sport (baseball has the beanball, but also the charge to the mound — and that can get every bit as ugly. Jose Offerman had charges pressed against him for charging the mound with a bat during a minor league game), and basketball has cheap fouls (Horry, Collins, etc) and the occasional very ugly scene.
I still maintain that two guys hitting each other on skates almost always looks like more than it is.
And incidentally, leaving the bench to join a fight is also an automatic ejection and suspension in hockey, as well.
The NHL, rightly, has done a decent amount to clean up both the fighting and the clutch and grab play that tends to lead to it. There will probably always be some, but the chippy play that leads to small scuffles never really bothered me, and its rare to see it get past that anymore.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:35 am
But it’s really OK. Hockey’s American if you go back far enough. The rules were derived from the rules of lacrosse, which was played by the Iroquois.
Really, Google it. Hockey’s just an ice-bound stepchild of lacrosse, the Real American Sport.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:09 am
I have a normal, regular American work colleague who lives somewhere instate in CA who is mad for the SJ Sharks. She has kids who swim competitively, and is in a million activities. So there are hockey fans here. I grew up in Buffalo and hockey was big there, or “hawkey” as the Canadians, the true fans, pronounce it.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:58 am
I lived in Pittsburgh at the dawn of the Mario era and in Detroit for nearly all of the Stevie Y era – watched a ton of Red Wings games – and played a little (very little) intramural hockey in college. I am primarily a football fan – and the part I loved most about playing football ws getting in a big, legal, hit – but there is no other sport I would rather watch live than hockey. (And I have to admit to some guilty satisfaction watching McCarty pound Claude “the Turtle” LeMieux.)
Still, MPowell is basically right. The notion that fighting is necesary in hockey is equivalent to the Republican conviction that supply side economics works. Its an article of faith that requires no evidence for the faithful – other than perhaps an occasional anecdote, if that.
Fighting would not be “necessary” if the Refs enforced the dang rules consistently. They let the hooking and clutching and grabbing and slashing go on until someone gets frustrated and takes a cheap shot. The problem is that this culture is so embedded in the sport that the price of correcting it would be a season, or more of games marred by dozens of penalties before the players got the message that cheating – which is what it is – will no longer be tolerated. I don’t know if Hockey – at least the NHL – could survive that in its current state.
And Joe, the fact that you can name a handful of black hockey players does absolutely nothing to address let alone diminish MPowell’s argument. His point was that if hockey was primarily black, hockey’s fighting culture would be viewed as criminal.
Finally, his point about not letting his kids play hockey has nothing to do with a fear of fighting. It is a protest against the idea that fighting is the preferred way to resolve differences.
March 1st, 2009 at 7:25 pm
cialis
Excellent site. It was pleasant to me.
March 11th, 2009 at 5:00 am
I want to say – thank you for this!
March 12th, 2009 at 11:58 pm
Excellent site. It was pleasant to me.
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:29 am
tramadol
I bookmarked this site. Thank you for good job!
March 25th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Hey, is there a section just for latest news
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:38 am
Incredible site!
buy cheap viagra
April 3rd, 2009 at 4:24 am
Excellent site. It was pleasant to me.
cheap brand pfizer viagra
April 9th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Great site, Good info viagra
April 14th, 2009 at 9:35 am
Incredible site!
viagra
April 18th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Padma Lakshmi nude Padma Lakshmi nude
Bridget Marquardt Nude Bridget Marquardt Nude
Katy Perry Nude Katy Perry Nude
Nicole Richie nude Nicole Richie nude
Tori Spelling nude Tori Spelling nude
Kristen Stewart nude Kristen Stewart nude
Carrie Underwood nude Carrie Underwood nude
Julianne Hough nude Julianne Hough nude
April 18th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
Demi Lovato nude Demi Lovato nude
Hayden Panettiere nudes Hayden Panettiere nudes
Leighton Meester nude Leighton Meester nude
Mandy Moore nude Mandy Moore nude
Zoe Saldana nude Zoe Saldana nude
Kendra Wilkinson nude Kendra Wilkinson nude
Chelsea Handler nude Chelsea Handler nude
Evan Rachel Wood nude Evan Rachel Wood nude
April 19th, 2009 at 8:45 am
LAeOXs qlcxrfwlrmxs, [url=http://tfvhoyquiovj.com/]tfvhoyquiovj[/url], [link=http://uvgxtclfeoot.com/]uvgxtclfeoot[/link], http://jsemoajqpwpj.com/
April 19th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Amy Smart nude Amy Smart nude
Jennifer Love Hewitt nude Jennifer Love Hewitt nude
Jordana Brewster nude Jordana Brewster nude
Diora Baird nude Diora Baird nude
Tricia Helfer nude Tricia Helfer nude
Lady GaGa naked Lady GaGa naked
Hilary Duff nude Hilary Duff nude
Kendra Wilkinson nude Kendra Wilkinson nude
Holly Madison nude Holly Madison nude
April 19th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Brooklyn Decker nude Brooklyn Decker nude
Kim Kardashian Sex video Kim Kardashian Sex video
Hayden Panettiere nude Hayden Panettiere nude
Lady GaGa sex tape Lady GaGa sex tape
Kim Possible hentai Kim Possible hentai
Kristen Stewart Nude Kristen Stewart Nude
Amanda Bynes nude Amanda Bynes nude
Denise Milani nude Denise Milani nude
Reese Witherspoon Nude Reese Witherspoon Nude
April 20th, 2009 at 5:03 am
Miley Cyrus sex tape Miley Cyrus sex tape
Amy Smart nude Amy Smart nude
Anna Faris nude Anna Faris nude
Miley Cyrus nude Miley Cyrus nude