Blew up the Islamabad Marriot and killed over forty people. This kind of thing is obviously distressing. But it strikes me that if Pakistan-based militant groups start turning to these kind of attacks, rather than to doing stuff in Afghanistan or the remote frontier regions, that the bulk of Pakistani opinion will almost certainly turn in favor of harsher measures against them which could, ultimately, improve the prospects for some U.S. policies.
September 20th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Let’s hope so. The alternative–the government collapses and a fundamentalist regime takes over, or slightly less bad, a coalition government that includes a fundamentalist partner comes into power–is quite scary. The possibility of Pakisan going haywire cannot be dismissed lightly.
September 20th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
That’s very optimistic, Matt. It is also possible that Pakistani opinion might turn against the already shaky government for not being able to control the situation. The government might fall before they have a chance to get the situation under control. Who takes over then is anyone’s guess. But I’d bet on another military coup. I’m convinced that Pakistan is basically ungovernable.
September 20th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
This has already happened to some extent. They have been bombing places for a while, and are not popular at all. The main reason it hasn’t happened more is opposition to the US.
September 20th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
I know this is off topic, but you ought to care even it Matt doesn’t:
FROM: http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/
Here are some of the provisions of the draft version of the bailout bill, from the NYT. For full draft and commentary do the above link.
Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets.
* Authority to Purchase.–The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States….
Sec. 8. Review.
* Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
* entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts;
Sec. 6. Maximum Amount of Authorized Purchases.
The Secretary’s authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time
There you have it. Your money will be spent per the decisions of Paulson, former CEO of Goldman Sachs and NOBODY ELSE. His decisions will final and not subject to any kind of review, judicial recourse, or “any other provision of law regarding public contracts”. The $700,000,000,000 is just for starters
There’s your democracy folks. And the GOPocrates will come together and pass this. Buy hey! They’ll still bicker about gay marriage! All is well.
September 20th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Congrats Matt, you know absolutely nothing about Pakistan and yet are confident enough to pull random speculation about political fallouts out of your ass. You now qualify to go write a blog for the New Republic.
September 20th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
I stayed at the Marriott on a visit to Pakistan last year. Hotel is the emblem of the West, and the U.S. in particular, in Islamabad. Attack is a major escalation and shift of tactics away from prior attacks mostly targeting the Pakistani security apparatus. Certainly a response to U.S. cross-border attacks, and one that will conveniently further split the new administration and the U.S. No upsides from this in the short run.
September 20th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I agree with David. American chain hotels are symbols of American dominance in many parts of the world and the general Pakistani population may think they are better targets for bombings than there own army or government officials.
September 20th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
It depends on who is being targetted in the Marriott explosions. If it’s Pakistanis or fellow Muslims then it might turn popular sentiment against the fundamentalists. If it’s Westerners though, particularly Americans, then I don’t think too many Pakistanis would be upset especially when you remember what’s going on now in the Northwest.
September 20th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Wait, I thought the liberal line was that harsher measures were a way to make things worse?
So is it some magical property of the West that makes harsh measures by us bad, while those used by others are ok? Or is this yet another example of Matt being unable to keep track of his own politics for more than 5 minutes?
September 20th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
From what I have gathered, which isn’t much, well as much as McCain I suppose, the general public in Pakistan is quite hostile to the crazies. But while they have a democracy that hostility hasn’t translated into action for obvious reasons. The military and the intelligence services run their own games no matter what the civilian government does, during those periods when there actually is a civilian government.
In a place so poor and backwards and desperate democracy isn’t the whole answer by a long shot. I don’t want to be a Pollyanna about it.
September 20th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
My friend gets haircuts or rather, got his haircut regularly there when he went, so its a place that is regularly frequented by many, even “middle-class” Pakistanis, although it is popular among Westerners obviously. I’m still waiting for Hector and his anti-Muslim South Asian rant.
September 20th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
And yet, his visits to the halal carts in Manhattan makes him more of an expert than McCain on Pakistan.
September 20th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
But it strikes me that if Pakistan-based militant groups start turning to these kind of attacks, rather than to doing stuff in Afghanistan or the remote frontier regions, that the bulk of Pakistani opinion will almost certainly turn in favor of harsher measures against them which could, ultimately, improve the prospects for some U.S. policies.
I think you’ve got this backwards. Just as the 9/11 attacks were a sign of the weakness of Al Qaeda, and their desperation to improve their fading standing among reformist and revolutionary groups in the Middle East, if Pakistani militants have turned to large-scale terrorism, they’re likely losing the battle for hearts and minds.
The stated goal of the 9/11 terrorists was to start a war that would radicalize more everyday Muslims and draw them to Al Qaeda’s side. So long as Pakistan and the US don’t respond with even greater violence, the marginalization of radicals in Pakistan should continue.
(And, yes, while I’m dreaming of proportionate American and Pakistani response to terrorism, I’d like a pony.)
September 20th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
This is incoherent even for you, James.
MY’s argument is that these harsh measures used by Pakistani radicals will likely turn the population against them, because harsh measures have significant blowback effects.
He holds a very clear anti-”harsh” measures (hey, you’re the one who drew the analogy between large-scale terrorism and American “harsh” measures, not me) stance – they are a bad thing morally, and a bad thing tactically because they produce a strong negative response among the majority of the population.
September 20th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
It’s not incoherent at all. Matt seems to think that a harsh response by the Pakistani government will be positive. He never, ever thinks that a harsh response by a Western government will be positive – not US, not Europe, not Israel.
Apparently, Matt’s thoughts on this subject depend on the national origin of the harsh party.
September 20th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
So, if more Pakistanis start dying, it’s better for the U.S.? Damn, I thought I had a cynical, Machiavellian, view of US foreign policy.
September 20th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
And maybe it’s because I just saw V for Vendetta for the first time yesterday, but I would think that increased terror operations in the Pakistan ‘heartland’ as it were, would only be good for those opportunists that are good at seizing power – who always seem to have fascistic tendencies.
September 20th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
One last follow-up to 17: I mean, isn’t this how Musharraf seized and maintained power all those years?
September 20th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
for reals this time, last one:
Frack, how do you think W got re-elected?
September 20th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Way off base, Matt. If the Pakistanis turn against the militants, that doesn’t mean they’ll turn to us. They are quite capable of hating both parties simultaneously.
What the Pakistanis want in their heart of hearts is money with no strings attached, and proxy wars in India and Afghanistan. They’ll work with whoever will give them that.
Hi, China!
September 20th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
If this is what we get with democracy in Pakistan, I say bring back Musharraf or any benign dictator for the matter.
September 20th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
This would be rather hilarious, if not for the fact that this kind of thinking is rather pervasive. Pray tell, friend, from what are you presuming to know “what Pakistanis want?”
September 20th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
If Matt would get off his ass and have an email address that works, he could be reading the emails I used to send him every night on the issues of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Then he might not sound like a moron when he posts on those subjects.
Try these, Matt, and get some clue:
In Pakistan, sympathy for the Taliban
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JI17Df03.html
Smiling’s over
Pakistan’s new president is a clone of Musharraf
http://www.edmontonsun.com/Comment/2008/09/14/6762186-sun.html
Money Quotes:
September 20th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
William Lind gets it. Yglesias doesn’t.
Why Obama Is Wrong
by William Lind
http://www.antiwar.com/lind/?articleid=13473
This is also why Obama is wrong.
Vested Interests Drove New Pakistan Policy
http://www.antiwar.com/porter/?articleid=13474
September 20th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
And here are the results:
Tribesmen to fight US if incursions continue
http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20089\18\story_18-9-2008_pg7_9
US pushes Pakistan towards the brink
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JI18Df01.html
Money Quotes:
September 21st, 2008 at 1:53 am
matt.
this summer i began writing a column in a pakistani paper. you can go on my site and follow the link. and while i haven’t really touched on the subject of militancy in my pieces, i have been following the whole pakistani news sphere very closely, and a great, great majority of pakistanis ARE ALREADY against militancy, both inside FATA and in Pakistan mainland. the paper i write for publishes 6 opinion pieces per day plus two editorials. i’d say that that about 60% of these are devoted to militancy in some way.
In fact, all those people who said that Pakistanis would turn against the militants once Musharraf was gone were right.
Having said that, I think the problem with your post is: WHICH US policies.
If you’re talking about US raids into Pakistan or even FATA, forget it. It’s not going to happen. Zardari may be US bought — see e.g. the Swiss and Polish prosecution against him being dropped and his $66 million in assets restored — but he still has to deal with the fact that the average Pakistani is extremely nationalistic, especially in relation to the big powers, especially if they are Western powers.
the pakistani govt/military has also been doing a good job with the propaganda war.
for example, the government said that b/c of the holy month of ramadan they wouldn’t attack the militants but if the militants attacked the govt promised to go after everyone including their families. (i believe this was interior minister rahman). as you can see, this attack occurred in ramadan. it makes me think that it was not tehreek e taliban but a foreign group (al-qaeda).
the government has also begun calling the pakistani soldiers that die “martyrs.” this takes away the romanticism that the militants assign to their missions and creates theological equivalency.
anyway i could go on.
September 21st, 2008 at 7:20 am
And here’s why the Marriott was hit:
Senior CIA officers were target of Islamabad blast
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/india-news/senior-cia-officers-were-target-of-islamabad-blast_10097943.html
US Marines may have been target of Marriot attack: Officials
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?artid=juyqYsIgb8k=&Title=US+Marines+may+have+been+target+of+Marriot+attack:+Officials&SectionID=oHSKVfNWYm0=&MainSectionID=ngGbWGz5Z14=&SectionName=VfE7I/Vl8os=&SEO=islamabad,blasts,marriot
September 21st, 2008 at 7:21 am
And here’s more reasons:
Strike at ‘den of Western decadence’
On the day Pakistan’s President condemned terrorism, militants gave a deadly response
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/21/pakistan.terrorism1
September 21st, 2008 at 10:01 am
Re: I’m still waiting for Hector and his anti-Muslim South Asian rant.
Since you asked….
I see no reason why this attack should make the Pakistanis any more sympathetic to the American cause. Did the attack on Madrid make the Spanish any more sympathetic to the Iraq war? Quite the opposite. The point of at least some kinds of political terror, is to _terrorize_, and to make the populace feel that they have less to fear if they give in to you than if they continue to oppose you. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn’t. It worked when the United States sponsored terrorism against the Sandinista regime in the ’80s, after all…..the Nicaraguans “voted” out Ortega’s government because they thought it was the best way to end right-wing terrorism. And it’s quite possible it could work in Pakistan as well.
I remain convinced that only the Army can effectively keep Pakistan out of Islamist hands, and that it was criminally irresponsible, bordering on treasonous, for the ‘democratic’ parties to insist on the end of military rule.
September 21st, 2008 at 1:47 pm
William Lind, cited above, is quite a far right loon on other subjects close to his heart. Alleges that K-12 education in the USA has been taken over by teachers indoctrinated in Frankfurt School Herbert Marcuse Neo-Marxism. Google, “william Lind” “Cultural Marxism, ” for his screeds against what the Nazis called Kulturbolshewismus, “Cultural Bolshevism.”
September 21st, 2008 at 1:49 pm
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20089\21\story_21-9-2008_pg3_6
VIEW: Pakistan on the brink —Ahmed Rashid
Zardari’s first tasks are to deal with the faltering economy and get a grip on the war against terrorism while satisfying international concerns. So far he has not much to show
For the past seven years, the Bush administration studiously ignored the Afghan Taliban and Al Qaeda leadership gathering in the tribal areas of Pakistan, and now scrambles to make up for lost time. US elections are looming, and facing the humiliating prospect of Osama bin Laden outlasting a two-term presidency and even expanding his reach, President Bush has pushed the Pentagon into a do-or die-hunt for bin Laden. Whether the search for an “October surprise” for the election succeeds or not, the radical threat is now beyond easy military solution.
It’s a sign of desperation that on September 16, the Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen was in Islamabad meeting the Pakistan army chief General Ashfaq Kayani, his boss Secretary of Defence Bob Gates was in Kabul, while Pakistan’s newly elected President Asif Ali Zardari was in London begging Prime Minister Gordon Brown to get the Americans off his back and deliver aid to a beleaguered country rather than angry ripostes.
Pakistan is at the centre of a gathering firestorm engulfing south and central Asia in the most volatile confrontation since 9/11. Pakistan, Afghanistan, the US and NATO all bear heavy responsibility for the crisis. President Bush had neither the inclination nor urge to do right by Afghanistan, despite pleas by President Hamid Karzai to eliminate cross-border terrorist strikes from Pakistan and effectively rebuild the country. Senior US officers serving in Afghanistan say they begged the White House and the State Department for action in 2006, but Bush was cosy with Pakistan’s former President Pervez Musharraf and Iraq occupied US attention. Meanwhile, veteran John McCain flails in effectively playing the national security card against Barack Obama because Republican policies failed to secure the homeland against future Al Qaeda attacks.
The Pakistan military and Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) saw Bush’s lack of attention as a free pass to re-engage the Taliban as a Pakistani proxy force. As outlined in detail in my book, Descent into Chaos: The United States and the Failure of Nation Building in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Central Asia, the army hedged its bets against possible US and NATO withdrawal from Afghanistan or danger of India becoming too influential in Kabul, by moving pro-Pakistan Afghan leaders into Kabul and carving out a dominating position in Afghan politics.
Until this year, Pakistan appeared to be winning the game. Then the Afghan Taliban launched an unprecedented offensive against US, NATO and Afghan security forces, attempting to paralyse the country by cutting all major roads to urban centres, thereby depriving the people of supplies and Western forces of fuel and ammunition — 80 percent of which is trucked through Pakistan — and killing aid workers so what little development work is taking place comes to a grinding halt.
Catching the Pakistan military off guard was dramatic growth of the Pakistani Taliban. Pakistani Pashtun tribesmen in the border region were quickly radicalised by their Al Qaeda guests. Last year, Pakistani Taliban militias developed their own political agenda — to Talibanise northern Pakistan and create a new “sharia state” that would lead to the balkanisation of Pakistan.
The Pakistani Taliban now control all seven tribal agencies that make up the autonomous region bordering Afghanistan called the Federal Administered Tribal Areas (FATA). They have spread across the North West Frontier Province (NWFP) through brutal terror tactics and threaten large towns. Poised on the borders of Punjab, the largest province, they’re joined by Punjabi and Kashmiri extremist groups.
US forces in Afghanistan launch almost daily attacks against suspected Al Qaeda hideouts in FATA and also target Afghan Taliban leaders such as Jalaluddin Haqqani. Pakistan’s military first denied the strikes, then virulently protested them. However on September 3, US Navy Seals put boots on the ground in FATA to demonstrate US seriousness and perhaps to also blackmail Pakistan to own up to US missile strikes and gain greater cooperation from the army. As a result, the army now says it allows US missile strikes despite public anger over Pakistan losing its sovereignty.
The army’s policies over the past fateful seven years led to Pakistan losing much of its territorial sovereignty. Heavily armed militant groups run wild, crime is rampant, paramilitary and police morale has plummeted with a stream of desertions. The country is in the throes of an economic meltdown. Foreign exchange reserves have halved in the past three months to less than US$8 billion, inflation runs at 25 percent, power shortages cripple industry and agriculture, and massive unemployment fuels a resentful populace.
Musharraf resigned, replaced by the ever-controversial Asif Ali Zardari, widower of Benazir Bhutto and leader of the country’s only national party in the country, the Pakistan People’s Party, winning elections with overwhelming support from the three smaller provinces of NWFP, Balochistan and Sindh. But Punjab, with 65 percent of the country’s 160 million people, remains out of his hands, run by rival Nawaz Sharif, who refuses to take the terrorist threat seriously and befriends right-wing Islamic parties. Cleavage between the smaller provinces and Punjab has never been greater.
Zardari’s first tasks are to deal with the faltering economy and get a grip on the war against terrorism while satisfying international concerns. So far he has not much to show. Since the new PPP-led coalition government took office in February, it’s been locked in interminable battles with Sharif. If Zardari continues on those lines, Pakistan is sunk. Promising economic aid and demanding ISI reforms, a lame-duck Bush administration cannot rescue Zardari.
Zardari needs to develop a partnership with the army to fight the terrorists, but so far the army lacks strategy or coherence — one day bombing villages in FATA, the next day announcing ceasefires and offering compensation to militants. It has failed to protect the people of FATA — some 800,000 of a population of just 3.5 million have fled the region since 2006 — terrified of both the army and the Taliban.
The army has still not made the necessary strategic U-turn, giving up on the Afghan Taliban leadership who live in Balochistan. The ISI still attempts to separate the favoured Afghan Taliban from the disfavoured Pakistani Taliban and Al Qaeda. But the truth is that all operate under a common strategy and guidelines set by Al Qaeda. The aim for Al Qaeda is to use the coming months to take serious territory in the NWFP where it can re-establish safe bases and training camps it once had in Afghanistan.
The American answer is to send more troops to Afghanistan — 4500 are due to arrive soon and another 10,000 by next year — and pressure Pakistan. However the solution no longer lies in a single country. The Taliban are now a regional problem and the next US administration must generate a regional strategy that encompasses Iran, Pakistan, India, Afghanistan and the five Central Asian republics.
Western forces cannot win in Afghanistan without dealing with Pakistan, but the military will only change its colours when it feels more secure vis-à-vis India, which has warm relations with President Karzai and the Tajiks in northern Afghanistan. Likewise Iran, now arming groups in Afghanistan, needs to be addressed directly by the Americans. Going back to the UN Security Council to get a new mandate for a major regional diplomatic initiative, coupled with a massive regional aid programme and widespread public information campaign that portrays the Western coalition as a regional problem-solver rather than a warmonger, are the needs of the hour.
However, the issue is whether the next US president, Europe and NATO will have the courage and the will to take the bull by the horns and attempt something new rather than continue with a policy that has clearly failed.
Ahmed Rashid is the author of Descent Into Chaos: The United States and the Failure of Nation Building in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Central Asia, and a correspondent for the Daily Telegraph. This article originally appeared in the Yale Global magazine and is reprinted with permission. Copyright 2008, Yale Centre for the Study of Globalisation
September 21st, 2008 at 10:41 pm
First, William Lind’s attitudes about other subjects are not relevant. He knows the military aspects of these issues and that’s what’s relevant.
As for Rashid’s piece, there are several problems. One, there is no “addressing the Taliban” in Pakistan or Afghanistan until you address the fundamental corruption problems in both countries – and quite frankly, that’s not even possible. And it certainly is not possible for any forces outside those countries, specifically the US and NATO.
What needs to happen is that the US and NATO PULL OUT! Resort to “containment” policies, not “nation building”. NOBODY CAN “BUILD” A NATION FROM THE OUTSIDE! It’s impossible! Let Pakistan and Afghanistan develop in their own dynamic.
The Taliban have repeatedly said they don’t give a damn about the West. That’s an Al Qaeda problem, as far as they’re concerned. Who in the West cares if Pakistan or Afghanistan go Islamic? We didn’t care when Afghanistan did until Al Qaeda attacked the US. But that attack was CAUSED BY US POLICIES!
So let Pakistan and Afghanistan handle their own problems, while the US modifies its policies to remove itself as a target for Islamic extremism. Let the Islamic extremists fight their direct enemies in the Middle and Far East for the next fifty years, while we sit out the fight! That’s a strategy that can work.
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