Aug 27th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
In Case It’s Not Clear
If you know of any friends, relatives, aging U.S. Senators, etc. who are confused about the size of Iran relative to the U.S.S.R., this rough-and-ready map may help clarify things for them:
Now to be fair, the U.S.S.R. was, as Brian Rogers might say, a frickin’ huge country. Historically speaking, I think only the Mongol Empire was larger. So it’s only in that context that it makes sense to call Iran “tiny.” On an absolute scale, Iran’s a solidly medium-sized country.
48 Responses to “In Case It’s Not Clear”
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August 27th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Yes and that’s the context in which Obama said that “I mean, think about it: Iran, Cuba, Venezuela — these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. ”
Perhaps McCain has forgotten that Iran has about the GDP of FInland. Or perhaps he’s forgotten there is a Finland.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Additional note: In a big country, dreams stay with you, like a lover’s voice on a mountainside. I am not sure what dreams do small or medium-sized countries, or how this might affect U.S. foreign policy.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Only arugula-chomping, foreign-vacationing elitists have maps which show how big different countries are. This was established as a scientific fact by our former Miss Teen South Carolina, who also discussed The Iraq and The South Africa.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Good time to link to this classic Fareed Zakaria piece:
“Here is the reality. Iran has an economy the size of Finland’s and an annual defense budget of around $4.8 billion. It has not invaded a country since the late 18th century. The United States has a GDP that is 68 times larger and defense expenditures that are 110 times greater. Israel and every Arab country (except Syria and Iraq) are quietly or actively allied against Iran. And yet we are to believe that Tehran is about to overturn the international system and replace it with an Islamo-fascist order? What planet are we on?”
August 27th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Historically speaking, I think only the Mongol Empire was larger.
Correct, unless you add up the geographically (and politically) disparate countries of the British Empire circa World War I.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Good news, I know for a fact that Obama reads Zakaria. I’d also bet a lot of money that McCain has no idea who that is.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
The Mongols were a lot cooler, too. Genghis instituted complete freedom of religion and an absolute ban on torture. Civilization has regressed somewhat since.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Pat Leahy gets it.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
What Fits Into Russia?
August 27th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Well, in population and GDP, Iran is a substantial percentage of the USSR. Germany and Japan in WW2 were tiny area-wise, but large threats.
It’s in terms of the size of the threat that Iran is tiny compared to the USSR, not in terms of land area, and that’s what Obama meant.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Wait a sec. I thought Iran was just the border between Iraq and Pakistan. How big could it be?
Time for some “Don’t know much about geography” ads.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
According to the UN’s estimates, in 2050 Russia will have 108 million people to Iran’s 100 million.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
“Eleven.”
“Eleven. It’s not even funny.”
“Eleven.”
“Eleven. That’s, that’s ridiculous.”
“Eleven.”
“Eleven. Well, that’s what we can do.
We can go anywhere, because
we live here, we–”
“Yeah, but–”
“–anywhere else.”
“But, not only, not only the
right of free travel, I’m
saying…eleven.”
“Eleven. 1, 2, 3 … yessir.”
“Mm hm. Eleven.”
“Eleven.”
August 27th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Noah thinks that Iran threatens us now like the USSR did back then. To quote What Fits into Russia: “HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!”
August 27th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
“Now to be fair”
you know that little voice inside, the one that wrote this “to be fair” graf?
the one that urges you to be fair to lying, war-mongering, women-hating republican ratfucks?
would you mind just giving that little voice a vacation until nov. 5 or so? so that we can save the country from a fate worse than bush?
August 27th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Well… Russia is about the same size as Spain, and just a bit larger than Canada in terms of GDP. Or, if you like, about 1/10th of the US. While Iran is squeezed between Finland and Hong Kong in the ranking I am looking at. Hardly an Empire.
But why should the GOP care. Iraq was almost ready to squash Western Civilization just a few years ago.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
One should always be careful about making these sort of comparisons based on 2D maps given the possible distorsions involved. Eg Greenland really is quite a bit smaller than Africa.
No idea what the importance is in this case.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
I’m just sort of blown away that there are references to both Big Country and Negativland in this thread…
August 27th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
I’m just sort of blown away that there are references to both Big Country and Negativland in this thread…
It’s not bad, but in a really good thread here we’d also get some references to, for example, Finno-Ugric language structure and the difference in chess-playing styles between players who favor Aufmerksamkeitverteilung and those strong in Aufnahmevermögen.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
At the link below Ryan Crocker says:
“The Soviet Union was a formidable force at its height, with a massive nuclear arsenal. It had half of Europe locked up in its grasp. Iran simply does not carry anything remotely like that weight, not internationally, not even regionally.”
Clearly the US ambassador to Iraq is not the kind of person to understand the Iranian threat, but…
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/newsfeatures/2008/0524/1211522099936.html
August 27th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Technichally you are also showing a map of Russia; The Soviet Union was actually larger.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Iran is bigger than Iraq. Iraq was 15 MegaHitlers. Therefore Iran is 43,000 MegaHitlers. Or something.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Technichally you are also showing a map of Russia; The Soviet Union was actually larger.
Hence Matt’s arrows extending into Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus and the ’stans.
(Though it reminds you that the border between Russia and Afghanistan is now even larger than the border between Iraq and Pakistan.)
August 27th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
I think all of this is pretty well summed up in the old saying: It’s not the size that counts, it’s what you do with it.
August 27th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
While all this is amusing, it doesn’t address the bottom line of Obama wanting to strong arm Iran over a non-existent nuclear weapons program.
Matt want to address that?
Thought not.
August 27th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Jesus, Matt, you need to get yourself a graphics program with fonts and arrows. Not only would the results look better, but it’s just a lot faster and easier with the right tools. This could be done in 30 seconds with a medium-priced graphics program like Paint Shop Pro.
August 27th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Iran is the size of Alaska with a GDP smaller than Denmark.
August 27th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Germany is half the size of Alaska and has 4 times the GDP of Iran, Kazachstan is double the size of Iran and its GDP is 5% of Germany’s, North Korea is a threat with 1% of Japan’s GDP, which is not a threat. These factors in and of themselves don’t really say much.
August 28th, 2008 at 5:11 am
When you think about an attack on the US the only actual threats are the armies with long range ICBMs, namely Russia, China, France and maybe Israel. Some of the other big armies might be able to pull off a Pearl Harbor style hit-and-run causing limited damage. Other countries would probably have to resort to Al Qaeda-style attacks which cause little damage and maybe 10-20k casualties max.
IOW, Iran doesn’t matter.
August 28th, 2008 at 5:15 am
When you think about an attack on the US the only actual threats are the armies with long range ICBMs, namely Russia, China, France and maybe Israel.
You forgot Britain! And that White House of yours still looks awfully flammable…
December 6th, 2008 at 8:00 am
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