Bidenmania
All DC’s abuzz today with talk of Joe Biden as a Vice Presidential nominee. I think putting someone who voted for the 2002 Iraq AUMF on the ticket may be more politically problematic than people realize — Obama has cited his opposition to that bill as key evidence of his good judgment, but presumably you’d want to put Biden forward as a knowledgeable and experienced foreign policy person, thus setting up a problematic contradiction. But that vote aside, Biden really is someone who’s genuinely knowledgeable about foreign policy questions rather than simply being “strong on defense” or some BS. What’s more, from a Heads in the Sand perspective, picking Biden would signal a clear intention to engage with McCain on national security issues rather than try to dodge away from them, which is definitely a decision I support.
A neglected aspect of the Biden record, however, is that his ascendancy would be excellent news for the SUPERTRAIN. Biden commutes back-and-forth from Delaware to Washington regularly on the Acela, so he appreciates what high-speed rail can do. What’s more, Wilmington recently lost its scheduled air service making Delaware a plane-free state that depends on rail for its connectivity. Biden spends a lot of time on foreign policy and Judiciary Committee business, so he’s not as much of a legislative leader on these topics as his fellow Delawarian Tom Carper, but he’s still one of the best friends rail has in the Senate. Beyond that, Biden’s son sits on the Amtrak board and unlike some of Amtrak’s leadership (which besides Biden is heavily dominated by Republicans) is actually a forceful advocate for Amtrak and for improving rail.
65 Responses to “Bidenmania”
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August 18th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
You mean, “Biden’s son sits….” Do better.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
but presumably you’d want to put Biden forward as a knowledgeable and experienced foreign policy person, thus setting up a problematic contradiction.
Not to mention, some people still remember Biden’s speech about four score and seven years ago.
Anyways, if you aren’t aiming at a particular state or region (and Biden isn’t going to moving any states or demographic groups), then one would have to consider whether a given VP pick makes the candidate package bigger and better or smaller and worse. He adds on the security front in the eyes of the press, and he’d probably be an ok president, but he sorta takes away everywhere else. (He would’ve been a better choice for Clinton. Or Gore.)
It really would be a Michael-Dukakis-riding-in-a-tank choice.
max
['Broder would approve tho!']
August 18th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Sort of odd that a VP pick has to signal anything, isn’t it? I kind of thought Obama’s forcefulness on the timetable spat, negotiating with Iran, etc. were loud and clear enough signals on their own.
Also, how does this post even come from the same neighborhood as the one yesterday:
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2008/08/the_real_veepstakes.php
where Matt argues that we should strongly consider “would it be good for this person to become a presidential nominee” in 2016? Biden will be 81 years old in 16 years. Is he a serious candidate in 2016? Yet here we are discussing his electoral viability for Obama.
And if we really need to do that, wouldn’t Biden sort of undermine his Beltway Outsider/Change message?
August 18th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
what max said. i worry that ‘broder would approve’ is the *only* thing that he has going for him.
i mean, aside from your approval, of course.
which i’m afraid makes the two of you broders under the skin.
August 18th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
“But that vote aside”
Classic, Yggles. “Putting an Iraq hawk on the ticket specifically for his foreign policy cred would more or less completely deflate the Obama campaign’s argument about Obama’s superior judgment. Putting that aside, though, look at Biden’s Iraq hawk foreign policy cred! Plus, he rides the train!”
August 18th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
HAIRPLUGS!!! PLAGIARISM!!! OBAMA INEXPERIENCED!!!!
/pre-emptive Right Wing Echo Chamber/Mainstream Pundits
August 18th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Better than Bayh. Safe and yet in John McCain’s face. A needed shot of piss and vinegar. Old enough that he probably clears the way for Sebelius (who’s off the list–current narrative trends make this far too risky) or someone else should Obama serve two terms.
Quit your fucking whining, kids; this is as good a pick as we’re gonna get.
August 18th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Biden really is someone who’s genuinely knowledgeable about foreign policy questions
Plus the credit card companies love him!
August 18th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
That’s change I can charge to my grandchildren.
August 18th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Obama should pick Michael Phelps for VP.
August 18th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Brent, I think the consideration of whether the person would be a good presidential nominee only applies if the person is likely to be a presidential nominee. It wouldn’t apply to Biden, for the reason you indicate.
August 18th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
I have to say that Hillary Clinton sounds like a better VP pick to me now than ever. It increasingly seems Obama will have to fight the sort of campaign that she always envisioned. I.e. a dirty struggle against GOP smears where lofty goals such as “bipartisan unity” and “change we can believe in” fall by the wayside. Which makes it all the more important that Clinton’s base (older white women) is as motivated as the rest of the Democratic coalition, no?
I know she has lots of risky political baggage and that her “image” would not really support what Obama is trying to accomplish as a candidate. I don’t know how well an Obama-Clinton Administration would work (if at all). But the main priority right now has to be to win the election.
August 18th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Biden is also the Senator from MBNA/Bank of America who authored the revised Bankruptcy Bill and I will not vote for him. He chaired hearings on the measure and frankly, could not respond to Professor Elizabeth Warren’s arguments against it other than to say, “You’re good Professor.” It’s not enough that Citibank and its ilk screwed up the mortgage markets and offering ajustable mortgages to anyone and making money left and right; it’s not enough that they offer credit cards to folks with or without credit at exhorbitant rates, again making money hand over fist; with the new bankruptcy law, people who maxed out their credit cards to pay for a family emergency like illness and hospitalization have a very great difficulty declaring chapter 13 bankruptcy.
August 18th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Not VP, Secretary of State. It’s a good position for someone with his credentials and clears the way for new blood in the Delaware Senate delegation.
-TTm
August 18th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
I was tempted to write a passioned defense of Biden — pointing out that his vote in 2002 for the Iraq war was quite tortured, that he drafted an alternative bill, etc. and he was one of the earliest critics of the war’s mismanagement.
Then I began to read some of the other commenters here. And think about how everyone is being apocalyptic about Obama of late.
And I realized that perhaps the American people are not as nuanced as I had hoped. Perhaps the not black and white but grey mentality is not going to win this one for us.
August 18th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
I think Biden is a great pick. Yes, he’s too old to run in 2016 but he gives Obama the foreign policy cred that is Obama’s weakest polling point (I refuse to say it’s his actual weakest point because his judgement and knowledge is heads and tails above McCranky’s). It also leaves the field open for HRC to run again at the end of Obama’s term, which is a definite plus. The AUMF vote is problematic but if BIDen acknowledges that his vote was wrong, it should defuse it somewhat as a Repub attack, esp. since McWanky also voted for it.
August 18th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Biden?? No thanks. The guy has a real tendency to put his foot in his mouth, and I doubt he’ll be able to avoid a major snafu for two months under intense scrutiny.
Ironically, after being dead-set against Hillary as VP, I’m starting to warm to the idea…mainly because I don’t see any other candidates that can significantly help the ticket. She has many character flaws I don’t like, and her voting for the war was inexcusable, but who else is there?
August 18th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
even though delaware doesn’t have an airport with commercial service, PHL Airport, a very large airport is close to Delaware.
August 18th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
i think they are just floating a semi plausible name to change the current narrative.
August 18th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
I don’t love Biden bit if the other choices are Bayh, Kaine, & Sebelius, I’m on board.
August 18th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I think putting someone who voted for the 2002 Iraq AUMF on the ticket may be more politically problematic than people realize — Obama has cited his opposition to that bill as key evidence of his good judgment.
I don’t get this argument. I opposed the Iraq war, but a hell of a lot of people–the majority of the citizenry and the politicians and the punditocracy–supported it. We want them voting for Obama, and this sort of litmus test for veep or other office is a bad idea. Biden’s support for the war was nuanced–he didn’t want to give Bush the balls out authority his wimpier brethren went for, for starters–and finally, who is going to vote for Me-too-McCain instead if Obama’s veep wasn’t right-on-the-record in 2002? If the Iraq war is your big issue a) Obama has been righter than McCain; b) this election will have a lot more foreign policy to it than who-was-right-in-2002, and running as though this is a referendum on that decision, rather than on what we’ll do next with regards to Russia, Iran, etc, is a foolish choice.
Biden is great. On foreign policy, he can talk rings around McCain and any veep pick, most especially Russia.
August 18th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
I hated Bayh as the choice until Biden was the alternative. I hated HRC as the choice until all these other names were said to be finalists (my own prefs are Schweitzer/Clark/Gore/in that order). Regarding Hillary, what potential Obama voters would be turned off by her that aren’t already turned off by the smears and skullduggery of the campaign to date? Isn’t she now the only candidate who can realistically bring a significant number of voters as the VP pick?
August 18th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
I think Biden would work out fine. I have been wondering if the first quality in this VP pick needs to be the ability and willingness to go negative on McCain. Something akin to ‘verb, noun and POW’ and Biden is the guy to do it. I think America is ready for Obama as President, I am just not sure it is ready for Obama to get there by going negative on a white former POW.
I also think of a lots of current liberal discomfort over the campaign is its seeming unwillingness to go negative. We are tired of wearing white gloves to the knife fight. McNasty is unfit for the job and the country needs that hammered into its collective brain on a daily basis.
August 18th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Well, I’m trying not to let his lack of hand washing when he leaves the bathroom on the SUPERTRAIN color my opinion of Biden, but I think his AUMF vote and general hawkish tendencies make me wary of him as VP.
August 18th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
I am surprised more people do not see Biden as something of a mental lightweight. He tries to say a lot of serious sounding stuff that is within the Establishment consensus but he just does not seem to have thought through things that deeply or well. The guy is kind of Dan Quayle like. As a Delaware guy, I was initially pleased and proud to see him run in 1988 but it ended up a complete embarrassment. Am really surprised that the plagiarism, spotty academic record, and assorted hotheaded statements all seem to have been forgotten. To top it off, Biden seems to add zero politically as a VP pick. Obama has that entire region pretty well sewed up (MD, DE, NJ, SE PA).
August 18th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
I have a tantalizing suspicion that Obama’s going to spring a total surprise with his VP pick – retired general or admiral, econ-finance guru, some non-elective type with a serious resume.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
And think about how everyone is being apocalyptic about Obama of late.
Not to be a nerd here, but I think the word you’re looking for is “apoplectic.” The only people being apocalyptic about Obama are on the other side.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
I would much prefer Kaine or Richardson, but can probably live with Biden. One thing we might have to worry about with Biden is gaffes and distractions. He tends to talk a lot; and he’s made more than a few boners in his career. On the other hand, he seems to be reasonably well trusted and respected by independents.
He can also probably help with the reverse ageism that is holding Obama back, through no fault of his own. I’ve talked with a lot of people in the post-55 crowd about Obama, many of them regular voters whom I would not describe as particularly well-informed about policy questions or foreign affairs. They seem constitutionally unprepared to recognize that Obama makes consistently better sense and shows better judgment and emotional maturity than McCain. To them, McCain just looks like a guy who should have better judgment and a steadier hand and mind, because he’s grayer, creakier, more wrinkled and paunchier. Maybe Biden can help get some more of of those folks to support Obama. It’s become a real problem.
My sad realization after the months of nomination battles and VP discussion is that the Democrats are not exactly blessed with a roster of all-stars to choose from. There is not a single prominent Democrat out there that makes us sit up and say, “Yes! Awesome!”
August 18th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
heh heh. Dan Kervick said “boners”
August 18th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Am really surprised that the plagiarism, spotty academic record, and assorted hotheaded statements all seem to have been forgotten.
The nice part is if the media starts picking up on Biden’s ancient history, it will be harder for them to ignore McCain’s similar ancient history (Keating Five, spotty academic record, assorted hotheaded statements). Might be a clever strategy to get all that back into the conversation.
Biden’s defense of the plagiarism charge is totally solid, to boot.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I’m almost sure it will be Biden or Sebelius. Only longshot possibility is Clinton (shudder). Either of the first two will be fine, even though they are very different.
Politics aside and completely on the merits of policy and experience, I think Biden is a terrific pick. Would be hard to do better. Politically, it’s a bit more complicated for Obama’s narrative with Biden voting for the AUMF and being such a Washington insider.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
the majority of the citizenry and the politicians and the punditocracy–supported it
The majority of Democratic law makers did not.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Of course, the major reason that Wilmington doesn’t have air service is that PHL is only a short drive away.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
I don’t love Biden bit if the other choices are Bayh, Kaine, & Sebelius, I’m on board.
Egg-zactly. Kaine would bring nothing to the ticket but Virginia, & probably not even that.
I would see a Kaine choice as showing Obama’s being spooked about the Electoral College.
Biden gives cred on age & foreign policy, & will make a good attack dog vs. McCain.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Re: the SUPERTRAIN–Don’t you think the Acela/Metroliner services are already fast enough? Running speeds up to 125/135 mph is pretty quick. You can see the mileposts out the window and it’s pretty amazing to time mile splits when they get down around 30 seconds. Investing millions to save a few minutes doesn’t seem worthwhile. I do, however, support upgrading the catenary to make the service more reliable.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Oh, and I see that the site has been brought up to Matt’s standards — the name/mail boxes go blank after I post each comment.
Matt wants only the TRULY DEDICATED to post comments on his blog.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Relative to Kaine and Bayh – Biden’s sagacity and gravitas is impressive. But, Delaware? The guy’s barely a net-plus. And, although, it seems as if he (Biden) is no longer proud of his association with Netanyahu – he’s still a real dunderhead. Is Chuck Hagel completely out of the running? There’s a guy who really undercuts McCain and broadens Obama’s appeal with Joe Sixpack.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
What is it with you, and with Josh Marshall? The fact that Biden’s been an active proponent of dismembering Iraq — that doesn’t seem to have any drawbacks? That he’s the embodiment of the lib-hawk consensus that got us into NATO expansion and every other damned boondoggle for military contractors?
And Mr. Bankrupty “reform”? That’ll really appeal to the strapped masses.
{gag}
August 18th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
The fact that Biden’s been an active proponent of dismembering Iraq — that doesn’t seem to have any drawbacks?
Biden was echoing some informed opinion on the subject, and it’s yet to be proved a laughable idea.
I doubt the strapped masses are going to turn to the GOP for debt relief — no bailouts for anyone making less than $1M a year, is their motto.
Biden mainly appeals to the kind of voter who doesn’t read liberal blogs. Who is, in short, the kind of voter Obama needs to work on recruiting.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
As Anderson. The basics of the plan was solid. The name was badly chosen. It was nothing more then a federalization of Iraq, which as actually worked in similar circumstances.
Most of the criticism was aimed at the fact that the iraqis where not for it. Hardly surprising as there hadn’t been any support building yet.
The only real problem was the unofficial name of the plan. calling it partitioning gave people like Nell the idea that it was dividing the country instead of merely formalizing and federalizing the situation on the ground, and channeling the violent disagreement between sectarian groups into diplomatic channels.
Certainly not a perfect plan, and was still without the necessary popular support at the time it was discussed but much better then anything championed by anybody else regarding the Iraq state.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Biden is an undisciplined loudmouth who shoots from the hip and speaks without thinking. While his aggressiveness and confidence would be an asset, I fear he would continually stick his foot in his mouth as a VP candidate, resulting in the worst case scenario of Obama having to “distance himself” from Biden’s comments about XYZ. It’s a tough call. Obama needs someone with enough ego to stand up and fire shots at McCain, but whose ego is not so overwhelming that they cannot stay disciplined and on message.
In some ways, Dick Cheney was the ideal “not going to run for president himself someday” Vice President. His personal ego was big enough for him to attack his opponent viciously and confidently, he was disciplined enough to stay on message, and his need to grand-stand and self-aggrandize was so muted that he almost never overshadowed his candidate with stupid, off the cuff comments. Ah Dick, bless his black diseased little heart. Pure evil aside, the guy was a good campaigner.
Of course, picking someone like Cheney has its problems. Lacking a VP who could pick up the Bush Administration torch and run for president himself, GW arguably entered lame duck territory far sooner than, say, Bill Clinton – who enjoyed the support of the Democratic establishment until the bitter end by virtue of Al Gore’s campaign. Of course, a 30% approval rate didn’t help GW much either, so maybe it’s a strained analogy.
The ideal candidate would combine Cheney’s strengths (attacking, discipline, good soldier for his candidate) with the ability to continue Obama’s legacy eight years from now. I wish such a candidate actually existed…
August 18th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Egg-zactly. Kaine would bring nothing to the ticket but Virginia, & probably not even that.
Well, if he does bring Virginia, that’s a pretty major deal in my book.
He also brings a vigorous and articulate campaigner, who closes strong, can win more Catholic votes, and appears to have very good chemistry with Obama and represents the same generational movement. He would be a great team player who would underline and reinforce the Obama message in an upbeat and totally committed way, and probably wouldn’t make mistakes.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Wesley Clark
August 18th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Biden would be a relatively high risk choice in my view, but I could see it working. He certainly goes on offense well, and even his gaffe-machine tendencies might serve as a useful lightning rod for the media (since for lack of anything else to do they are basically running with whatever weak stuff on Obama the McCain Campaign puts out).
August 19th, 2008 at 5:27 am
Am I the only one who reads something like “buzz in DC is that XXX may be the candidate’s VP pick” and translate it as “the candidate’s campaign today seeded a rumour that XXX may be the candidate’s VP pick in order to see what the reaction to such a pick might be”?
Maybe it was the description of a possible Tom Ridge VP pick for McCain as nothing more than a “trial balloon” that convinced me, but really, that’s all that I think the Bayh and Biden rumours are: trial balloons instigated by the Obama campaign. Nothing’s been decided, and in fact I think the feedback from these rumours is helping them to decide.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:26 am
I’ve never understood the need to worry about torch carrying from a VP. The presumption party nominee is only as good as the party is at that moment. If the party knows whats good for itself, and the current VP isn’t someone strong, then the party should nominate someone stronger. Even if McCain or someone else had been VP for Bush right now, they would have just as tough a chance getting elected as McCain will now.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
“Biden commutes back-and-forth from Delaware to Washington regularly on the Acela, so he appreciates what high-speed rail can do.”
In what universe is the Acela a true high-speed train? The new French TGV line to Strasbourg runs at 200 mph. And it connects east of Paris with an older line (185 mph) that runs continuously from Lille to Marseille. How can Biden appreciate what he hasn’t fully experienced?
August 24th, 2008 at 10:47 am
What is the distance between Wilmington and Washington? And one should also stop for Baltimore. There is no space there to go about 150 mph. Not that Amtrak COULD, but there, at least there is an excuse.
My dream reform would make Amtrak (a) more frequent, EVEN on inland lines like Philly-Harrisburgh-Pittsburgh, (b) cheaper, (c) regularly stopping at airports in Newark and Baltimore/Washington, (d) have light-rail or subway shuttle connections to other great airports like JFK or Dulles.
Plus it would have service integrated with bus services.
About Biden the defender of the working class managing credit card accounts, and imperialist, etc., he is SOMEWHAT reassuring in that he is not a forceful personality like Cheney. Obama will be in charge. Biden is not a deep thinker but he knows a lot, and he is not stupid. An asset for an intelligent superior, but not someone who will mesmerise Obama to go in some exotic (or sadly conventional) direction.
I think there were many decent choices for VP, no obvious choice.
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