Am I A Georgian?
Common sense indicates that, no, I am not a Georgian. But John McCain says “today we are all Georgians.” But does he mean it? Suppose Russia was bombing Atlanta and threatening to advance to Savannah. In solidarity with Georgia (the state) Americans from all fifty states would band together and fight the Russians off. Now I don’t think we should go to war with Russia. And I hope John McCain doesn’t think we should go to war with Russia. But insofar as he doesn’t mean that we should go to war with Russia on Georgia’s behalf, what’s the meaning of the claim that “we are all Georgians”?
On one level, it’s empty political sloganeering. But on another level it’s not empty — it’s downright irresponsible, and an example of the sort of irresponsible behavior that got us into this. But this stuff isn’t a game — Putin, Shakashvili, the Ossetes and the Abkhaz are all playing for keeps. We shouldn’t imply guarantees that we don’t intend to keep, which means the public statements of our officials have to be driven by realistic assessments of the situation and of American interests not by mawkish sentimentality.
76 Responses to “Am I A Georgian?”
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August 12th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Good point. John McCain is seriously out of control. He’s an incoherent, fantasy-based war monger. How can the mainstream media not start noting and discussing how crazy these things he is saying are?
August 12th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
“We are all Georgians” — today it means that we’re all going to sit tight until Putin tells us what comes next.
August 12th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
So the post is back but the comments are gone? What gives?
August 12th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Given his temperment I expect him to push this line until November.
It’s a serious loser politically, but he’ll gain from it because we have a bi-partisan consensus that great gaming in the former USSR is serious foreign policy. If Obama came out and said, “That’s stupid and dangerous”, his own advisors would denounce him. So Obama get’s stuck with a bunch of lame “me-tooism”.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Obama should up the ante: “Today we are all ethnically Georgian South Ossetians.”
Also, just wanted to take the opportunity to debunk the smear once more: “John McCain was not arrested for child abuse in 1993.”
August 12th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
John McCain is a loony old coot who should be kept away from the levers of war at all costs. To have him in the White House would be a disaster not merely for the nation, but for the world, and I wish Obama would stop running ads that look like public service announcements and let the nation know what a dangerous man his competitor truly is.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Like this?
August 12th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
“Today we are all Georgians.”
Except for the South Ossetians.
Watching the matrix reality version of the conflict on the American cable news channels, you’d never know Georgia started the fucking thing. I’m hoping when this is over and Putin pulls out, the “Rose Revolution” puppet regime is burned so bad it’s terrified to trying anything like this for the next thirty years. And that Georgia’s bid was the high water mark for NATO membership in the former USSR. All this has certainly sent the clear message that there’s a price to being an American client state over there.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
If you *really* wanted an analogy for the Georgia-Russian war my vote would be for the Falkland Islands.
Client state occupies meaningless chuck of territory to whip up patriotic fervor to displace anger over a moribund economy. Great power in decline decides to make a make a big show over it to prove a point. A bunch of people die over it. The end.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
McCain has completely embraced the neoconservative doctrine of war war and more war.
The mess that is Georgia is a logical consequence of the incompetence and willful blindness of an administration that completely botched its very first international incident (anyone remember the EP-3 incident?).
August 12th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Imagine when we invaded Grenada or Panama or Haiti or… if Russia had started bitching about it, what would we have done? I’d guess we would have laughed and told them to fuck off.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
I’m really starting to think there is an inevitable generational divide here. Americans of a certain age, schooled in endless Cold War propaganda during the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s, are locked in a “Roll Back the Soviets Forever” mindset when it comes to the Russian Bear. Besides McCain, I also heard Daniel Schorr, usually fairly subtle and insightful, give a stunningly un-nuanced analysis on NPR the other day.
For McCain, the Russians are still the bastards who directed the Vietnamese who roughed him up in prison.
August 13th, 2008 at 12:04 am
As a Georgian, when do I get to cast my vote to get rid of the idiots who thought it would be a good idea to invade South Ossetia?
August 13th, 2008 at 12:43 am
Reminds me of Reagan proclaiming, “I know I speak for my fellow countrymen when I say…” Whew, I thought. One more reason to be glad I’m a woman.
August 13th, 2008 at 12:43 am
Wouldn’t it make more sense for McCain to say, “We are all Iraqi’s”? We spent 5 years, 4000+ American lives, and a trillion dollars there.
I love how the Republicans are falling all over themselves condemning Russia for unilateral and pre-emptive military action against one of their former satellites. Like we have any moral authority to comment on Russia’s actions.
August 13th, 2008 at 12:45 am
It’s probably intended to play off “Today we are all Americans”, as heard from various persons, European and otherwise, circa 11 September 2001.
August 13th, 2008 at 12:54 am
I, for one, am not a Georgian today.
August 13th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Matthew, I beg do differ, Saakashvili is not playing for keeps.
Unless by “for keeps” you mean the bountiful consultant and speaker fees that will await him when he returns to the land of his second citizenship, the USA. He will be the Madame Chang Kai-shek of his generation!
Putin, the Abkaz, the Ossetians, they plan to stay in their homelands, but Saakashvili – highly unlikely.
August 13th, 2008 at 1:16 am
DTM (# 13 above)
You most certainly do get to cast your vote.
And I most certainly hope that your compatriots will cast theirs – the sooner the better.
August 13th, 2008 at 1:22 am
BTW for all, Obama’s statement is, indeed “lame me-tooism” (see #4).
Except for the last paragraph:
“Let me be clear: we seek a future of cooperative engagement with the Russian government, and friendship with the Russian people. We want Russia to play its rightful role as a great nation – but with that role comes the responsibility to act as a force for progress in this new century, not regression to the conflicts of the past. That is why the United States and the international community must speak out strongly against this aggression, and for peace and security.”
This is at least quite rational, and without stereotyping, if still imbued with the politics-of-the-day.
August 13th, 2008 at 2:49 am
sdh: McCain has completely embraced the neoconservative doctrine of war war and more war.
Don’t buy into the media-fed myth that “maverick” means “moderate.” This isn’t a case of McCain following the neocons; McCain was for invading Iraq before Bush was, and he’s been for using the military as a hammer on many foreign-policy nails since before Cheney made it standard GOP doctrine.
August 13th, 2008 at 3:47 am
It all makes sense until you think about all the Russians crashing their hijacked planes into Georgia or imagine the Russians to be Catrina blowing into Georgia causing all kinds of damage. It’s basically a clueless statement that says we are all victims, and in fact underscores the helplessness of being able to do anything about it.
August 13th, 2008 at 3:59 am
No, but your website does refuse to bookmark. Anyone else having this problem?
August 13th, 2008 at 5:48 am
Hi, i was reading american (and other) forums and blogs, and already was losing hope to find anyone who managed to remain sane in this anti-russian hysteria of the last days… I am happy to have finally found you, guys.
August 13th, 2008 at 6:05 am
Dan Kervick probably has the best take – except it doesn’t apply to me, despite being nearly 60 years old. But then, I’ve never been one to take patriotism or the notion that the United States never does anything wrong seriously.
As an anarchist, I know all states are bad. Which makes it easier to tell when one state is trying to screw another state over and vice versa.
And right now, the US is trying to screw Russia, and Russia is fighting back.
Bush vs Putin – I know who I’d put my money on. This is like Mike Tyson vs Peewee Herman.
I say we run Putin for US President in 2012, with George Galloway as VP. (BTW, George got accused of anti-Semitism by some piss-ant Jewish radio station in England, sued them, won, and put them out of business. George takes no shit from anybody, including Parliament, the US Congress, the media, and Zionist freaks.)
August 13th, 2008 at 6:56 am
The Russians are one thing, but I’d like to know how the presidential candidates plan to defend our country from the international menace of SPECTRE.
August 13th, 2008 at 7:07 am
Today we are all little Chinese girls who can sing well but can’t pass the cuteness test.
August 13th, 2008 at 7:15 am
Wow. I think Marina Korableva, i represent the most agressive agressor ever imagined, and the cause of evil in the world – Russia has identified a bit of a flaw in ThingProgress’s blogging software. No character limits in the name field? Hmmm…
August 13th, 2008 at 8:02 am
“It’s probably intended to play off “Today we are all Americans”, as heard from various persons, European and otherwise, circa 11 September 2001.”
Quite, and while I know some neo-con types considered it the height of hypocrisy for Europeans who said stuff like that not to sign on for Iraq, but really they were being silly – these were nice things for Europeans to say at a terrible time for Americans. Similarly I don’t think what McCain says here is so terrible – lots of other stuff he’s been saying about Georgia/Russia is genuinely disturbing, but this alone is hardly objecionable.
(In my since dissappeared previous comment I made the comparison with “Ich bin ein Berliner” – arguably of a piece with a wider warmongering policy on JFK’s part, but surely a nice gesture of solidarity in itself, no?)
August 13th, 2008 at 8:03 am
1) Look at the bath Chevron stands to take from this little soiree and you’ll understand why John McCain is blowing the “White Man’s Burden” trumpet.
2) It’s the same old Neocon Con — spend our sons’ lives protecting Big Oil’s (and Israel’s) foreign investments under the guise of ..oh, “Western Civilization”, Humane Values (Rwanda got no oil , son ), and …er..”patriotism”. And wave the flag with vigor while you fuck the country. Secure in the knowledge that our craven whores in the Mainstream News Media will not let out a PEEP re your hidden agenda and your misleading bullshit.
August 13th, 2008 at 8:07 am
Given the Republican frenzy about crowds cheering Obama in Berlin, including at the National Review, I thought this National Review post was, well, what’s the word?
Georgians in Tbilisi ‘Roar’ In Response to McCain’s Words
August 13th, 2008 at 8:10 am
Quite frankly, I am not a Georgian and I am proud that I am not given that what we just saw was a dirty little war of ethnic cleansing by the Georgians.
South Ossetia is litle more than a single valley and so is somewhat akin to a pipe with one way in from Georgia (the road from Gori) and one way in from Russia(the Roki Tunnel). It puzzled as to why the Georgians didn’t seal off this tunnel to prevent the Russians sending reinforcements to South Ossetia and this article explains why:
The west should be preparing a cell for Saakashvili in The Hague.
August 13th, 2008 at 8:36 am
If “you break it, you can’t touch any of the other merchandise until you pay for it” isn’t a rule at the Pottery Barn, it probably should be.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:00 am
I think you mean “hawkish sentimentality.”
August 13th, 2008 at 9:08 am
It’s a bad immitation of Kennedy’s Berlin speech — Ich bin ein Berliner — demonstrating that when someone attempts to immitate history a second time, out of the context, it becomes farce. Kennedy’s rhetoric was backed by a policy that actually meant something. McCain’s is just hot air, unless he actually plans to fight Russia once he becomes president.
How this differs much from Turkey invading Cyprus, for example, has yet to be explained. Nor has the reason Georgia decided to challenge Russia after being warned against it by both the Russians themselves and the United States (apparently).
It is not incumbent upon the United States to rescue everyone from their own stupidity.
Even when that stupidity seems to have been imported from the Bush administration, notoriously fond of starting wars it is unable to win. The big difference is that our wars are on the other side of the world, so when our armies bog down, it’s in someone else’s country. The Georgians didn’t notice, so when their war failed, it was in their own country.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:11 am
My next door neighbor says we’re all Yankees. I think it’s just because she wants to do Derek Jeter.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:16 am
When we stopped being afraid of the Soviets we started doing really stupid and dangerous things around the world. Maybe if we start to fear what the Russians might do we’ll act with a bit more restraint.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Because they didn’t. Russia had it’s local puppets attack the rest of Georgia, so that when Georgia responded, they’d have an excuse to invade all of Georgia, which is what they did. That’s why Russia could launch an all out invasion on such short notice: It was planned in advance.
Man, years after the fall of the Soviet Union, the left are STILL making excuses for Russian imperialism. Is it in your genes or something?
August 13th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Today, we are all the Cincinnati Reds, having traded Adam Dunn for 3 minor leaguers.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Nothing. It’s just another stolen line from the internet.
.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:44 am
John McCain really is a dangerous man if he thinks he can just bully the Russians. Dear John, they have nukes which is partly why we didn’t just invade North Vietnam back in the day. Obama is also showing poor judgment for saying he favors NATO membership for Georgia. Um, sure, let’s just extend NATO membership to a country that starts military actions assuming we’ll be there to help without telling us he’s doing so.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:50 am
You are not a Georgian .. you are an idiot
August 13th, 2008 at 9:54 am
“the left are STILL making excuses for Russian imperialism. Is it in your genes or something?”
Yes, that’s exactly it, so you can’t blame us! Nice Kremlinology on your part though.
But to go back to #35 – I’m not sure JFK’s rhetoric meant much either – would he really have gone to war with the Soviets over west Berlin? Nicer place than south Ossetia by all accounts, but still, one hopes not.
August 13th, 2008 at 11:27 am
It shouldn’t be necessary to say this, but obviously it is:
recognizing that the US and Nato are not going to go to war with Russia over Georgia, and shouldn’t go to war over Georgia, and in fact don’t have a lot of effective or attractive ways of retaliating for what the Russians have done, are doing, or will do, in Georgia is not excusing imperialism or apologizing for Russia’s actions. It is understanding reality.
August 13th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
I am a Georgian, my Driver’s license even says so.
Oh wait, this is the other Georgia. Maybe McCain mixed it up and thought Sherman was on the march again. We know he is desperate for every vote and is working hard to shore up the South.
August 13th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Russia played a very shady game – giving second citizenship to people in an area they want…. and saying they own it.
They do not.
HOWEVER – Georgian troops attacked FIRST!
They bombed a Russian military “peacekeeper” base that had been ther for years and was there by treaty. Georgian troops killed CIVILIANS — the THOUSANDS dead were killed by US backed and trained GEORGIAN TROOPS.
This is not that hard to follow people.
Dont believe the USA Government/Corporate Media lies/spin.
We trained Georgian troops – and they attacked first.
Yes Russia had long agon moved in and was playing a game.
The people in the disputed area want to be part of Russia.
Georgia to get their way — killed both Military and Civilian people.
Russia did not provoke this MILITARY conflict that exploded this week. Georgia (with US support and training did).
Knowing this is not being liberal — is it just CHOOSING to deal with reality and facts. America again did something shady and thousands are dead.
If being Conservative mean ignoring the facts — I will be happy to have embracing truth be call liberal.
August 13th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
I was only a Georgian when the rocket launchers were slaming into the apartment blocks in Tskhinvali and liberating the souls of women and children from their bodies. All in a days work; and something every patriotic American can get behind, after all they’re Slavs, they’re not as worthy as us or our friends. I agree with John McCain, who is so wise in these matters.
Your partner in ‘freedom’,
Lucifer B. Satan
August 13th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
The Russians are coming?! Here? To Savannah? I’ll mobilize…as soon as I polish off this sweet tea and vodka.
August 13th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
So can we officially call this the start of “McCain Derangement Syndrome”? The man was calling for solidarity with a pro-western democracy, something Obama did without being willing to, you know, stand for anything.
As was pointed out above, JFK used very similar language DURING THE COLD WAR. How “downright irresponsible” of him!
Having sympathy for others! Oh no! standing up to totalitarian states! Good god! Someone quick, muzzle him! He’s out of controll! Who knows, McCain might say he thinks theres Genocide in Darfur, god knows how much worse THAT would make everything!
What am I saying, the left has decided EVERYTHING McCain dose is bad. I guess none of you will be wearing sunscreen for the rest of the summer eh?
August 13th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Yeah, listening to the BBC World News this morning, Georgians are being accused by the Russian Ossetians of ethnic cleansing and horrible violence. They campared the Georgian President to Hitler. I don’t know the whole story, but are we all “ethnic cleansers” too?
No, I think Obama’s initial response was the correct one, and McCain’s is dangerous. But on the teevee, they keep saying — and I mean this literally, not as snark — that “This is good for John McCain”. Yuck. I’m so sick of war-mongering US Presidents!
August 13th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Lincoln thought it was all right for northern forces to invade Georgia after it seceeded from the Union.
August 13th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
In point of fact, some of us actually are Georgian.
August 13th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Well, to be fair, two things:
Many Europeans did mean it when they said “Today we are all Americans” and were quite willing to pummel, and then rebuild, Afghanistan.
But, when it came to Iraq, their response was, “We said we were Americans, not that we were stupid Americans…”
August 13th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Mcsame is an idiot and when I heard that we’re all Georgians I was surprised to say the least. Mcsame and his ilk don’t even want to tangle with the Russians. Thank goodness chimpy has sobered up from his monumental olympic drinking binge and sent miss condi to the region to fix everything LOL!
August 13th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
We need some empty sloganeering to combat McCain’s rhetoric.
I think we should say that it’s the exact opposite of speak softly and carry a big stick.
John McCain yells shrilly and has no stick.
At least Bush sent them Condi and some bandages for the future amputees.
August 13th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Truth? I dont even care of Russia invades our Georgia. Those rednecks are so pro-war, they can fight it out themselves.
August 13th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Oh, good god! Get over it already. The southern rebellion ended badly for you folks, so suck it up.
August 14th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Mr. Yglesias:
For enlightenment on your idiotic commentary see Sen. McCain’s article on p. A13 of today’s Wall Street Journal
August 14th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
I guess if McCain claims he’s a Georgian, he’s telling us what no political candidate usually admits — that, like the Georgian President, he is up for sale to the highest bidder
August 15th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Boy you liberals are awful hateful.
The point is this: “We are all Georgians” is an explicit, deliberate echo of Jack Kennedy’s phrase “I am a Berliner” (”Ich bin ein Berliner”).
The Left has already forgotten the reason why their candidate just went to Germany on his “Hey, I’m a Grown-Up, Too!…No…Really!”-tour of Europe–he was hoping to inherit the JFK mantle!
Let’s step back in time for a moment shall we, to June 26, 1963, and let’s see what this tantrum would sound like had it been addressed to President John F. Kennedy (D., America) on that long-ago afternoon:
“Common sense indicates that, no, I am not a Berliner. But John Kennedy says “today we are all Berliners.” But does he mean it? … I hope John Kennedy doesn’t think we should go to war with Russia. But insofar as he doesn’t mean that we should go to war with Russia on Germany’s behalf, what’s the meaning of the claim that “we are all Berliners”?
“On one level, it’s empty political sloganeering. But on another level it’s not empty–it’s downright irresponsible, and an example of the sort of irresponsible behavior that got us into this. But this stuff isn’t a game–Khrushchev, Adenauer [sic], the Easterners and the Westerners are all playing for keeps. We shouldn’t imply guarantees that we don’t intend to keep, which means the public statements of our officials have to be driven by realistic assessments of the situation and of American interests not by mawkish sentimentality.”
As lame as Republicans often are, that is exactly why I can never again be a Democrat.
John McCain’s not talking about war. War? Hell, you can’t even get these Lefties to defend America, let alone an ally. Unless your country is named “Pornostan”–then maybe you can get these clowns aroused. But if you’re not a poor, beleaguered Pornostinian, you outta luck, Jack.
http://coldfury.com/?p=10064
August 15th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Good to know some SANE people here including Matthew of course. I picked up at an Israeli e-news site info in how the Israeli’s are [were?] training Geogorgians in all sorts of self-defensive techniques. Knowing how THAT country deals with its neighbours it makes one wonder at Georgia’s adventurism. WHO put them up to it for starters? I mean it’s horrific to go and thump the Russians. Everybody knows how they react. History has proven that in Chechnya. What were they thinking? Were they thinking or drinking?
August 15th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Hey Matthew, you’re an idiot. You missed the whole point of McCain’s comments. Per McCain, this is what he said and meant:
“The Georgian people have suffered before, and they suffer today. We must help them through this tragedy, and they should know that the thoughts, prayers and support of the American people are with them. This small democracy, far away from our shores, is an inspiration to all those who cherish our deepest ideals. As I told President Saakashvili on the day the cease-fire was declared, today we are all Georgians. We mustn’t forget it.”
Does this mean we are literally all Georgians? No. Does this mean that we are going to war with Russia? No. What does it mean? It means “..they should know that the thoughts, prayers and support of the American people are with them.” Good thoughts and good intent on McCains part. Stupidity on yours.
August 15th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Oh, please. Of course, John McCain didn’t mean that, literally, we all are Georgians. It’s a statement of support.
BTW: There is a cure for that anatomical anomaly suffered by those who who’ve parsed McCain’s statement to the ridiculous, non-sensical level. The cure? Pull your head out, clean out your eyes and ears, and wake up!
Oh, yes, if then Barack Obama–well, actually Indonesian-citizenship-holding-and-who-knows-what-others? Barry Soetoro–declares in Germany that he’s a citizen of the world, does that then mean he’s at least renounced his American citizenship?
Come to think of it, perhaps that’s why he said it: That he is not an American citizen.
BTW: Good comment, Mr. Bensen. I suspect you’ve spoken way, way over the ability or desire of liberals and leftists to understand what you’ve said, though.
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